glad we didn't overpay, but, yes, there's a hole now.

and man, i COMPLETELY forgot about kubina. too bad he's finished.

pronger also being finished really hurts. kimmo needs to be healthy at the end of the year or we're finished.
- hammarby31

Damn right there is a hole. And a big one in my opinion.

If you just want to find him on the list for turnovers by defensemen (he was 42nd overall). You will find such scrub defensemen as John Carlsson, PK Subban, Norris winner Erik Karlsson, Dion Phanuef, Brett Burns, Keith Yandle, Zdeno Chara, Dennis Wideman, Dan Boyle, Drew Doughty, Mark Striet, Hal Gill, Jay Bouwmeester, Luke Schenn, Brent Seabrooke, Dustin Byfulglien. Carle comes all the way in at 25. Not a decent dman above him on that list huh?

Carle also led the Flyers in total ice time by over 100 minutes more than the next closest player, playing mainly with whatever call up was in the lineup that evening. He led the team in blocked shots. Led the team in even strength TOI. Let the team in ice time per game. Led the team in total shifts taken. Led the team in shifts per game.

Now the Flyers, in wasting all that time trying to over pay for Suter by a country mile, have weakened their back line. AT this point in time, the Flyers are not as good a team as they were last season on paper, and unless they sign Doan and trade for a Carle replacement (which will further weaken them from a forward standpoint, the prospects of them getting better seems limited. Bruno Gervais ain't gonna cut it.

Carle at 5.5 for 6 years, compared to Suter at whatever the hell he got X 12 doesn't seem so bad to me.

Bill,

here's what I see. the flyers are going to have to face up to their shortsightedness regarding their d. I see them making a trade along the lines of the ones made by COL for Johnson and DAL for gogo. those deals were made in season and prob favored the other clubs...prob because they were made when the need became obvious and the teams seeking the puck mover were at somewhat of a disadvantage. going into the season anticipating what the FAs will be in the future is folly.

I think it makes more sense to make the move now, because it is very tough to acquire that kind of player in an even deal during the season. I would not have settled for Luke schenn as compensation for JVR and I would make b schenn my major trade chip because couts is untouchable in my book. now I wouldn't be surprised if both schenns are shipped out. either way the flyers need a top pairing dman...even if his development is not quite at that level just yet.
- isaiah520

Schenn should be as untouchable as Couturier, IMO.

Bill,

perhaps the Flyers didn't bite on Carle earlier for the simple reason that a lot of others see. He just ain't that good.....He is 3 million a year good....(in the cap world)....he is not 4 million good and certainly not 5 million good....In your listing you have Mez as the 5th D....that guy was their best D 2 years ago....so if he is indeed on a third line pairing thats a pretty solid guy.
I have often said I am not a carle fan....I just think the good outways the bad. I was not a big JVR guy either...not for lack of talent, but more frustrated with his development I guess....although he really is still just a pup....my critisim of him was probably not as warranted. There are holes but lets see what doors this opens up on the trade front....I am against the moving of Schenn ....but see a problem in a couple of years of where Couts is going to play....I don't think ahead of Giroux or Schenn....and all three are better players in the middle.....kinda like Carter, Richards , Briere scenerio.
No Player is non tradeable......when the greatest player of all time can be dealt I learned a long time ago not to get to attached!!!!
- landros 2

The defensive summary at the bottom was slightly depressing.

Phi interested in DJ Dion?

We take Briere and Couturier in exchange

If I was on bath salts, I'd be eating your face right now. Mmmm...human face...
- hobo

you're a fine young cannibal

Sigh.

The Flyers continue to poorly manage the cap and it bit them in the @ss.

They Flyers could have signed Carle during the season, to a friendly cap hit, if they managed the cap properly.

For anyone who wants to pretend that the Walker and Shelley deals haven't had a negative impact on this team, look no further then this Carle fiasco.
- ggunky

The Carle "fiasco" is really the first, and only time that the Walker and Shelley contracts bit the Flyers in the ass.

The only reason they did is, they prevented getting a deal signed, sealed and delivered before July 1st, because they took up tagging space.

But, so did the Grossmann contract.

I don't really see the Carle situation as a fiasco. Yes, he's a good player, and the Flyers would be a better team with him onboard at a $5mm cap hit than with Gervais and Gustafsson, but at the same time, the deal Carle got was too long for my liking, and the cap hit was the absolute most I would have considered paying.

As it is now, the Flyers have a solid team. They have lost fewer skilled players and certainly fewer key players than New Jersey and Pittsburgh. They still have cap space to make a couple of moves, too.

Schenn should be as untouchable as Couturier, IMO.
- bradleyc4

He absolutely should be. The only reason LA was willing to trade him was because they were getting Mike Richards in the trade. Schenn has as much potential as Couturier to be a future stud.

At this point, I would rather see a 1 year for Carlo than gervais. Carlo is a health risk, but the potential reward there is higher

Bill, you're not a fan of a 13-year deal for Ryan Suter with a AAV higher than Zdeno Chara's with the possible anchor of the Collective Bargaining Agreement expiring in two months?
- bradleyc4

No, I'm not a fan of it. Like I said, as strictly a hockey move, I get why the Flyers went all out for Suter -- All-Star (but not Norris Trophy) caliber defenseman in his prime. As a cap move, no way.

Damn right there is a hole. And a big one in my opinion.

If you just want to find him on the list for turnovers by defensemen (he was 42nd overall). You will find such scrub defensemen as John Carlsson, PK Subban, Norris winner Erik Karlsson, Dion Phanuef, Brett Burns, Keith Yandle, Zdeno Chara, Dennis Wideman, Dan Boyle, Drew Doughty, Mark Striet, Hal Gill, Jay Bouwmeester, Luke Schenn, Brent Seabrooke, Dustin Byfulglien. Carle comes all the way in at 25. Not a decent dman above him on that list huh?

Carle also led the Flyers in total ice time by over 100 minutes more than the next closest player, playing mainly with whatever call up was in the lineup that evening. He led the team in blocked shots. Led the team in even strength TOI. Let the team in ice time per game. Led the team in total shifts taken. Led the team in shifts per game.

Now the Flyers, in wasting all that time trying to over pay for Suter by a country mile, have weakened their back line. AT this point in time, the Flyers are not as good a team as they were last season on paper, and unless they sign Doan and trade for a Carle replacement (which will further weaken them from a forward standpoint, the prospects of them getting better seems limited. Bruno Gervais ain't gonna cut it.

Carle at 5.5 for 6 years, compared to Suter at whatever the hell he got X 12 doesn't seem so bad to me.
- MBFlyerfan

You are a voice in the wilderness but I agree. The guy gets no respect.

Schenn should be as untouchable as Couturier, IMO.
- bradleyc4

need on d is too great for too many sacred cows. I'd rather have a subban or bogosian in tow.

the flyers will be forced to make a trade to address this issue unless they are willing to play musical chairs with scrubs and overexposed parts taking unguarded mins.

No, I'm not a fan of it. Like I said, as strictly a hockey move, I get why the Flyers went all out for Suter -- All-Star (but not Norris Trophy) caliber defenseman in his prime. As a cap move, no way.
- bmeltzer

Oh yeah, totally agree. I LOVE Ryan Suter, but there's a breaking point, and the Wild went way above what I would have done.

That's why I brought up the length of the deal, the fact that he makes more than Chara for that duration, and the uncertainty of the CBA going forward.

need on d is too great for too many sacred cows. I'd rather have a subban or bogosian in tow.

the flyers will be forced to make a trade to address this issue unless they are willing to play musical chairs with scrubs and overexposed parts taking unguarded mins.
- isaiah520

They have a solid top 5, so long as Timonen is healthy. It's not as if they're going to be icing Ryan Parent and Lukas Krajicek as the third pair. There will at least be a solid player such as Meszaros or a developing guy with potential like Schenn as one of the two guys on the third pair.

need on d is too great for too many sacred cows. I'd rather have a subban or bogosian in tow.

the flyers will be forced to make a trade to address this issue unless they are willing to play musical chairs with scrubs and overexposed parts taking unguarded mins.
- isaiah520

There will be other players available via trade and free agency. No need to trade a potential future stud centerman for a "fix" that's not necessary right now.

The Carle "fiasco" is really the first, and only time that the Walker and Shelley contracts bit the Flyers in the ass.

The only reason they did is, they prevented getting a deal signed, sealed and delivered before July 1st, because they took up tagging space.

But, so did the Grossmann contract.

I don't really see the Carle situation as a fiasco. Yes, he's a good player, and the Flyers would be a better team with him onboard at a $5mm cap hit than with Gervais and Gustafsson, but at the same time, the deal Carle got was too long for my liking, and the cap hit was the absolute most I would have considered paying.

As it is now, the Flyers have a solid team. They have lost fewer skilled players and certainly fewer key players than New Jersey and Pittsburgh. They still have cap space to make a couple of moves, too.
- Jsaquella

As is it now -- and there is still time and cap space to improve things -- the Flyers have lost offensive pop (Jagr, JVR, Carle), taken what would presently be considered a sideways steps defensively (Schenn vs Carle) and may have also weakened the backup goalie spot (Bob vs. Leighton).

But let's see what they do now.

The new CBA will terminate excessive long term deals (Luongo, Kovalchuck, Parise, Suter). Weber has his shot this year. So, this morning Poile will offer him $98m over 13 years. Weber will accept or reject the deal. If he rejects the deal, Poile starts taking offers. My guess is he already knows what he can get from the teams that might bid. You would have to think the Flyers are a leading contender.
- spatso

I don't know if the gets it done. He is worth more than Suter money.

As is it now -- and there is still time and cap space to improve things -- the Flyers have lost offensive pop (Jagr, JVR, Carle), taken what would presently be considered a sideways steps defensively (Schenn vs Carle) and may have also weakened the backup goalie spot (Bob vs. Leighton).

But let's see what they do now.
- bmeltzer

They have lost pop, no question. But they still do have offensive depth. It's reasonable to expect Voracek to stay where he was or improve, and it's not a stretch to expect Schenn and Couturier to improve with added offensive responsibilities and larger roles.

I would not be surprised if they did nothing more than add Gervais this summer on defense, and waited to see what developed in trade as the season goes on. They will miss Carle, but they still do have 5 solid NHL defensemen. They will need to play better team defense, but that was the case whether they retained Carle, signed Gervais or Suter or stood completely pat on defense.

As for up front, we could certainly see a couple guys added. I expect a run at Doan, and probably some grit for the 3rd/4th lines.

They have a solid top 5, so long as Timonen is healthy. It's not as if they're going to be icing Ryan Parent and Lukas Krajicek as the third pair. There will at least be a solid player such as Meszaros or a developing guy with potential like Schenn as one of the two guys on the third pair.
- Jsaquella

The health of the important pieces is my concern.
If kimo and mezs are injured, the ability to move the puck is sub par in the d unit.

The health of the important pieces is my concern.
If kimo and mezs are injured, the ability to move the puck is sub par in the d unit.
- nails

That's the biggest concern. No question.

Like I said earlier, I am ok with trying it this way for a change. Aside from goalie, the Flyers have had a tough time developing home grown D-men. I think they are in a position to let some kids try and develop; I would rather be a little patient and not give up young talent or tons of money for another teams finished product. Again, can they really play that much worse than they did in the playoffs? I find that hard to believe. Have some cap space to work with this year and next. I think the long term goal should be Weber. He would be worth every penny.

They have lost pop, no question. But they still do have offensive depth. It's reasonable to expect Voracek to stay where he was or improve, and it's not a stretch to expect Schenn and Couturier to improve with added offensive responsibilities and larger roles.

I would not be surprised if they did nothing more than add Gervais this summer on defense, and waited to see what developed in trade as the season goes on. They will miss Carle, but they still do have 5 solid NHL defensemen. They will need to play better team defense, but that was the case whether they retained Carle, signed Gervais or Suter or stood completely pat on defense.

As for up front, we could certainly see a couple guys added. I expect a run at Doan, and probably some grit for the 3rd/4th lines.
- Jsaquella

Bob vs. Leighton
I don't know, Bob would be pushing for the starting job where Bryz is the starter. Some goalies like the fact they know they are the number one w/o having to look over their shoulder. Leighton IS the back up.
They still have cap space to get some things done and defense by committee is not a bad idea. I for one would like to see them play better team defense and with the lack of a stud defense (no disrespect to Kimmo), this may happen a little bit more consistently.

There will be other players available via trade and free agency. No need to trade a potential future stud centerman for a "fix" that's not necessary right now.
- bradleyc4

Homer has to look around the league and get some players that can help. Doesn't have to be big names but maybe players on the verge of breaking out. Let's acquire some more young talent if possible.

Carle was a solid player but he's one guy. It's a team game and his departure opens up an opportunity for some one else.

That's the biggest concern. No question.
- Jsaquella

....trade some scoring for enstrom and try to sign doan....or oh god, semin?

I think I would like them to just stand pat and let the youngsters lead the offence and wait for weber

Like I said earlier, I am ok with trying it this way for a change. Aside from goalie, the Flyers have had a tough time developing home grown D-men. I think they are in a position to let some kids try and develop; I would rather be a little patient and not give up young talent or tons of money for another teams finished product. Again, can they really play that much worse than they did in the playoffs? I find that hard to believe. Have some cap space to work with this year and next. I think the long term goal should be Weber. He would be worth every penny.
- matman31

maybe just maybe Homer is fed up with not having any cap space to work with and he didn't want to overpay Jagr/Carle...
then again...the Flyers are always in cap hell.

Walker/Shelley most likely will be waived....I would hope.