I think the Vegas number was 95 wins.... They have been in last place basically all year. Pretty rare.
- PLindbergh31

not saying it's the sole reason, but they were over 500 before Doc went down

The Phillies should unload whatever they can at the deadline.
- stveshdy

I'm against a total rebuild. Move Victorino but try to re-sign Cole at all costs. They can vie for a World Series title next year if they redo their bullpen and add a scrappy hitter or two.

who had them forecasted to be so good? Had to see this coming with Howard and Utley not being healthy.
- JoeRussomanno

I was also under the impression expectations were significantly lower for the Phillies this season.

EDIT: To be fair, I expected them to at least be mediocre.

CBS Sports' Jon Heyman reports that the Yankees have "talked to the Phillies" about Shane Victorino. The asking price is "too high" at the moment, Heyman has been told, but that could change as the July 31 trade deadline draws closer. Victorino, 31, is batting .245/.311/.379 with eight home runs, 19 stolen bases and 38 RBI in 89 games this season. He's set to hit the free agent market five days after the 2012 World Series.
Source: CBS Sports

The Phills ownership group is not willing to go over the luxury tax threshold.
- 77rams

Or so they say. When push comes to shove, I think they will. Just like the Yankees and Red Sox. The Phillies are the 3rd super power in the MLB whether the like it or not.

k. this still has nothing to do with your original point. unless your contention is that milwaukee knew exactly what they were doing and that La Porta would be a bust.
- OrangeBlack27

That's precisely what I'm implying. If Milwaukee thought that highly of him, they would have never traded him for what amounted to something like 15 starts of Sabathia. The Brewers knew they had zero chance to sign Sabathia, especially with the Yankees being in the market for a top of the rotation guy.

I'm against a total rebuild. Move Victorino but try to re-sign Cole at all costs. They can vie for a World Series title next year if they redo their bullpen and add a scrappy hitter or two.
- NickTheKid87

I think they should deal whatever teams want if the price is right.

I would like to sign Hamels but if they think a deal cant be reached you have to trade him.

I admit, I overvalued them. I had them fighting for the third spot in the division.
- 77rams

I just saw the health of those two as the writing on the wall for an off year. Even the Yankees and Redsox miss the playoffs every so often. The Phillies had a nice stretch there an now they need to regroup. I wouldn't trade hamels because after him there's a bunch of aging starters. Wish they'd trade Victorino, Chooch or Polanco, but what the heck do I know. I did foresee this season being this way, not a biggie, just wish I had Harry to listen to instead of

CBS Sports' Jon Heyman reports that the Yankees have "talked to the Phillies" about Shane Victorino. The asking price is "too high" at the moment, Heyman has been told, but that could change as the July 31 trade deadline draws closer. Victorino, 31, is batting .245/.311/.379 with eight home runs, 19 stolen bases and 38 RBI in 89 games this season. He's set to hit the free agent market five days after the 2012 World Series.
Source: CBS Sports
- stveshdy

what are they gonna get for him tho? I don't want a bag of baseballs.

not saying it's the sole reason, but they were over 500 before Doc went down
- FlyerMike18

That hurt, without question. It's a lost year. It happens.

For a rental with no draft pick compensation? No way.
- bradleyc4

Sabathia was dealt to the Brewers for LaPorta+ and that was when LaPorta was an A prospect. They knew CC was a rental. I don't see why Texas wouldn't deal Mike Olt+ for Hamels.

Or so they say. When push comes to shove, I think they will. Just like the Yankees and Red Sox. The Phillies are the 3rd super power in the MLB whether the like it or not.
- NickTheKid87

Don't see it happening.

That's precisely what I'm implying. If Milwaukee thought that highly of him, they would have never traded him for what amounted to something like 15 starts of Sabathia. The Brewers knew they had zero chance to sign Sabathia, especially with the Yankees being in the market for a top of the rotation guy.
- PLindbergh31

possibly....or they thought that sabathia was that missing piece. he is pretty damn good

I think they should deal whatever teams want if the price is right.

I would like to sign Hamels but if they think a deal cant be reached you have to trade him.
- stveshdy

I that I completely agree with. Keep talking with him until the deadline and then, if something can't be worked out, move him.

That's precisely what I'm implying. If Milwaukee thought that highly of him, they would have never traded him for what amounted to something like 15 starts of Sabathia. The Brewers knew they had zero chance to sign Sabathia, especially with the Yankees being in the market for a top of the rotation guy.
- PLindbergh31

that's completely absurd, but easy to say four years later.

"pay a D-man close to max money and who have the depth to give the Preds 2 top 6 forwards, 1 top 4 defender, 2 top flight prospects, and at least 2 first round draft picks." - per Ek

holy cats! that's alotta hooch....

Sabathia was dealt to the Brewers for LaPorta+ and that was when LaPorta was an A prospect. They knew CC was a rental. I don't see why Texas wouldn't deal Mike Olt+ for Hamels.
- NickTheKid87

They already took Olt off the table as per reports. They're grooming him for first base.

Sabathia was dealt to the Brewers for LaPorta+ and that was when LaPorta was an A prospect. They knew CC was a rental. I don't see why Texas wouldn't deal Mike Olt+ for Hamels.
- NickTheKid87

Draft pick compensation. The Brewers knew if they couldn't sign Sabathia, they'd get a first round pick from whomever did.

That isn't the case any more. Rangers, from everything I've read, view Hamels as a rental. And with no draft pick compensation, won't give up top prospect(s) for him.

I was also under the impression expectations were significantly lower for the Phillies this season.

EDIT: To be fair, I expected them to at least be mediocre.
- BulliesPhan87

I like Charlie, but this insistence on relying of the longball has become obsolete two seasons ago. After this year I'd like a house cleaning in management. Start a whole new era and let's get her done. Can't trade Howard but I'd like to see what my options are with Chase I play half a season Utley. Two years in a row of this circus with him refusing to get his knees fixed, has really soured me on him. Used to be my favorite philly. Thank God for Hunter Pence

Edit: I got sick of putting on the game and watching man on third with two outs a long time ago.

That's precisely what I'm implying. If Milwaukee thought that highly of him, they would have never traded him for what amounted to something like 15 starts of Sabathia. The Brewers knew they had zero chance to sign Sabathia, especially with the Yankees being in the market for a top of the rotation guy.
- PLindbergh31

The Brewers offered him over $100 million. CC like the NL and likes to hit. The Brewers certainly had a shot. Just didn't want to offer more years.

Sabathia was dealt to the Brewers for LaPorta+ and that was when LaPorta was an A prospect. They knew CC was a rental. I don't see why Texas wouldn't deal Mike Olt+ for Hamels.
- NickTheKid87

Olt is not gonna happen.

I like Charlie, but this insistence on relying of the longball has become obsolete two seasons ago. After this year I'd like a house cleaning in management. Start a whole new era and let's get her done. Can't trade Howard but I'd like to see what my options are with Chase I play half a season Utley. Two years in a row of this circus with him refusing to get his knees fixed, has really soured me on him. Used to be my favorite philly. Thank God for Hunter Pence

Edit: I got sick of putting on the game and watching man on third with two outs a long time ago.
- JoeRussomanno

Joe, his knees can't be fixed. It is a chronic permanent condition.

Draft pick compensation. The Brewers knew if they couldn't sign Sabathia, they'd get a first round pick from whomever did.

That isn't the case any more. Rangers, from everything I've read, view Hamels as a rental. And with no draft pick compensation, won't give up top prospect(s) for him.
- bradleyc4

Lack of pick compensation hurts trade value for sure.

that's completely absurd, but easy to say four years later.
- OrangeBlack27

It's all that matters. The end result. They traded the face of their franchise, and got minor league filler in return. When you are a GM (especially of a small market team) you can't afford those type of misses.

Draft pick compensation. The Brewers knew if they couldn't sign Sabathia, they'd get a first round pick from whomever did.

That isn't the case any more. Rangers, from everything I've read, view Hamels as a rental. And with no draft pick compensation, won't give up top prospect(s) for him.
- bradleyc4

100% correct. Why did MLB take that pick away now?