The deal is intentionally unrealistic, basically a wishlist of changes from the owners. I do wonder if the NHLPA will propose a similarly slanted deal.
- BulliesPhan87

They will, it's called negotiating.

Each side starts with their ideal, perfect and never to happen proposal. Then the two sides work their way down to a deal in the middle both sides can live with.

This happens all the time.

edit: not directed at you, but at some that are freaking out about the NHL proposal.

It's not fair to compare the players per say, Semin is a better player by far. What is fair to compare is the work ethic, and commitment. And Semin would take a much more financial commitment than Zherdev did. It's not happening you can take it to the bank.
- PLindbergh31

I don't think work ethic and commitment are as big a deal with him anymore than they were a few years back. Again, I think this is the Russian stigma effecting our view of the player. I wouldn't want to sign him to a 10 year deal but I wouldn't mind a 3-4 year deal at $5-5.5m per.

I don't think Couturier will be a superstar. He's not the greatest skater and he doesn't seem to have the offensive prowess of a elite player. I think he'll be a great defensive center that puts up 60-70 points a year on his good years but I can't see him being a more valuable player to have than Shea Weber.
- NickTheKid87

60-70 points, with the defense Couturier provides is bordering an elite level player. He's 19 years old, it's way too early to project what he will become.

The deal is intentionally unrealistic, basically a wishlist of changes from the owners. I do wonder if the NHLPA will propose a similarly slanted deal.
- BulliesPhan87

It could come of as arrogant...If they NHL wants revenues to increase they should move some of the failing teams north...you know where people actually know what hockey is...Not make the rest of the league pay for the welfare teams.

If anaheim was really asking for Gus, read and a 1st the deal would have been done already. In a heartbeat. I bet that might have been Homer's lowball to anaheim, but from the Flyers side, you say yes to that all day long, am I right. Gus will play in the minors this year, almost guarenteed because he is the only waiver exempt guy. and Next years first wont play for 3-4 seasons most likely.... so all your giving up really is a 26 year old second year player in Read. He is a good assett, but you ahve to make that trade without giving Anaheim time to rethink, right?
- RooNosHockey

The first round pick in 2011 played right away. So saying that all your giving up is Read, is failed logic. Gustafsson, and the picks are valuable assets.

The deal is intentionally unrealistic, basically a wishlist of changes from the owners. I do wonder if the NHLPA will propose a similarly slanted deal.
- BulliesPhan87

I see them settling at 49-51%

Then the salaries all get rolled back the same %. No players have to be traded or dropped to get cap compliant.

Hopefully they apply some common sense to the over 35 rule, and to the length of contracts to circumvent the cap. There will be some give and take.

Though I did see that Bundy tweeted that the players should just give in because the owners will get what they want anyway.

this is just my opinio but while having a stud dman is huge, I believe you need all around depth to win and trading away too many pieces leaves the Flyers with too many holes. Esp being they don't have a lot of top end prospects.
- nastyflyergirl

I agree with the depth, which is why I am opposed to trading for Bob Ryan, but look at what they did with a healthy Pronger. Weber is at that level and he'd improve the special teams vastly along with being that anchor on the blueline.

60-70 points, with the defense Couturier provides is bordering an elite level player. He's 19 years old, it's way too early to project what he will become.
- PLindbergh31

True but Weber putting up 45-55 points on a defensive minded club is greater than what I think Couts could be. But like you said it's early.

I don't want to waste any time discussing the labor issues. None of us no the facts, and the reports are beyond tiresome. I will worry if/when the season doesn't look as if it will start on time. Until then, leave all the red tape to the attorneys and pencil pushing geeks.
- PLindbergh31

i find it all interesting, but you're correct in that we are all very much in the dark of the actual goings-on and there's no point in worrying. sure, the financial system isn't perfect as is, but the fact of the matter is that the league's revenues have grown exponentially since 2005. heading into the last CBA expiration, they league was badly leaking oil, money, fans, etc. it's much easier to figure out how to share profits than it is to figure out how to stop bleeding money.

this is just my opinio but while having a stud dman is huge, I believe you need all around depth to win and trading away too many pieces leaves the Flyers with too many holes. Esp being they don't have a lot of top end prospects.
- nastyflyergirl

the need for depth and prospects >>>> the upgrade to Weber

It could come of as arrogant...If they NHL wants revenues to increase they should move some of the failing teams north...you know where people actually know what hockey is...Not make the rest of the league pay for the welfare teams.
- Philly1980

Better to come off arrogant than weak. As for the rest, it's not a good thing that those southern market teams are bleeding money, but there's a bit more to it than saying, "Pack your bags, boys, we're heading north."

I don't think work ethic and commitment are as big a deal with him anymore than they were a few years back. Again, I think this is the Russian stigma effecting our view of the player. I wouldn't want to sign him to a 10 year deal but I wouldn't mind a 3-4 year deal at $5-5.5m per.
- NickTheKid87

I'm not against it, but it's not going to happen. Semin would probably be a good fit with Giroux on the offensive side of the puck, but defensively a line of Giroux, Semin, and Hartnell would struggle.

Giroux struggled a bunch last year with defensive zone assignments, which is somewhat curious to me, because he is a pretty good PK player. He can and will improve that aspect of his game.

i find it all interesting, but you're correct in that we are all very much in the dark of the actual goings-on and there's no point in worrying. sure, the financial system isn't perfect as is, but the fact of the matter is that the league's revenues have grown exponentially since 2005. heading into the last CBA expiration, they league was badly leaking oil, money, fans, etc. it's much easier to figure out how to share profits than it is to figure out how to stop bleeding money.
- OrangeBlack27

Well said. I agree.

They will, it's called negotiating.

Each side starts with their ideal, perfect and never to happen proposal. Then the two sides work their way down to a deal in the middle both sides can live with.

This happens all the time.

edit: not directed at you, but at some that are freaking out about the NHL proposal.
- feelingkettle

We're on the same page here. Why wouldn't you want to come off as 'arrogant' at the table? You bid high and work towards the middle, to start the negotiations with a lower bid is giving away leverage.

The deal is intentionally unrealistic, basically a wishlist of changes from the owners. I do wonder if the NHLPA will propose a similarly slanted deal.
- BulliesPhan87

This. You come out with a low ball offer so you have wiggle room to negotiate down to something that is acceptable. Owners ask for 46% Players say 54% Meet in the middle at 49%.

Likewise for everything else. The owners will concede on some spots so they can get what they want on other... its all business strategy and nothing for us to worry about. They will work through the season on the current CBA and if anything there wont be a season following next season.

I'm not against it, but it's not going to happen. Semin would probably be a good fit with Giroux on the offensive side of the puck, but defensively a line of Giroux, Semin, and Hartnell would struggle.

Giroux struggled a bunch last year with defensive zone assignments, which is somewhat curious to me, because he is a pretty good PK player. He can and will improve that aspect of his game.
- PLindbergh31

I agree that Semin is a long shot (there's a joke there...). I was just saying that there are plenty of misconceptions about his game as with many Russian players.

Better to come off arrogant than weak. As for the rest, it's not a good thing that those southern market teams are bleeding money, but there's a bit more to it than saying, "Pack your bags, boys, we're heading north."
- BulliesPhan87

I dunno as a flyers fan, i pay higher ticket prices than those fans down south. Some of my money is going to inadvertently support those teams under this CBA. I dont wat too , as a fan, pay for Bettmans expirements. They failed. Move on. Why should the flyers loose talent over that?

It's certainly a lot less risky than giving up some great assets for a similar player in Bobby Ryan.
- bradleyc4

I think that is the important thing.. we wouldn't have to give up assets for Ryan if we sign Semin. I think a two-year deal would be fine and if Semin shows he has changed the perspective on him, he could sign a very lucrative deal when that expries.

If we had to give up any assets, I would rather it be in a package for Weber.

the need for depth and prospects >>>> the upgrade to Weber
- bradleyc4

I agree. I think we can afford to either move players and a prospect or two, but keep all our draft picks, or move prospects and draft picks but keep all our roster players.

If we move 3 or 4 roster players and give away lots of draft pick too it will handicap the team such that even with Weber we won't be competitive.

As this prospect camp has shown, we don't have any high level prospects in our system now - but we have several that could be 3rd/4th line NHLers given time. So we're not in a position to be able to move roster players and replace them with talent in our system now.

It could come of as arrogant...If they NHL wants revenues to increase they should move some of the failing teams north...you know where people actually know what hockey is...Not make the rest of the league pay for the welfare teams.
- Philly1980

I absolutely agree. I'm sorry but while Phoenix may have some good fans, the fact is over the last 5-6 years they have not ranked higher than 23rd in attendance capacity and 30,29, 30 in the last 3 years. and since 00-01 no higher than 19th in attendance. and 8 out of the last 11 seasons they have been in the botton 5. but yet Bettman and the owners insist on keep the team there.

We're on the same page here. Why wouldn't you want to come off as 'arrogant' at the table? You bid high and work towards the middle, to start the negotiations with a lower bid is giving away leverage.
- BulliesPhan87

It's not even being arrogant, it's the first step in negotiating anything.

If you've ever watched Pawn Stars, it's the same process. Guy wants to sell something. He gives them the highest number he wants for it. Pawn guy gives him his lowest. They work their way to a price they're both comfortable with.

I really doubt the NHLPA is upset with the NHL's first proposal. It's a formality in negotiating, and you can't take it at face value.

I see them settling at 49-51%

Then the salaries all get rolled back the same %. No players have to be traded or dropped to get cap compliant.

Hopefully they apply some common sense to the over 35 rule, and to the length of contracts to circumvent the cap. There will be some give and take.

Though I did see that Bundy tweeted that the players should just give in because the owners will get what they want anyway.
- MBFlyerfan

I'd be lying if I said I have any idea where the percentage lands. But there'll definitely be offers back and for over it the next few months.

I agree it'd be a percentage rollback should the cap ceiling go down. I don't think the NHLPA would be enthused about sacrificing some of its members to an amnesty buyout whatchamacallit.

I don't think Couturier will be a superstar. He's not the greatest skater and he doesn't seem to have the offensive prowess of a elite player. I think he'll be a great defensive center that puts up 60-70 points a year on his good years but I can't see him being a more valuable player to have than Shea Weber.
- NickTheKid87

I think you're very mistaken.

Couts has impeccable instincts and is one of the most intelligent hockey players I've ever seen. His hockey IQ is off the charts. He also possesses sweet hands and a hard and accurate wrist shot. His offensive qualities often get overlooked due to his superb defensive game, but he does possess 40 goal and 80+ point upside. Whether or not he'll reach that remains a question mark, but the talent is there for sure.

Regardless, Weber is available becuase he's an impending UFA. You need to factor that into your proposals because it does in fact decrease his value.

The Schenns + Prospects/Picks is what I'd be willing to offer at the maximum.

I absolutely agree. I'm sorry but while Phoenix may have some good fans, the fact is over the last 5-6 years they have not ranked higher than 23rd in attendance capacity and 30,29, 30 in the last 3 years. and since 00-01 no higher than 19th in attendance. and 8 out of the last 11 seasons they have been in the botton 5. but yet Bettman and the owners insist on keep the team there.
- nastyflyergirl

It would be fantastic if Phoenix moved to Quebec City. I believe QC has a new arena, and are dying for a team. The 80's/early 90s Quebec/Montreal rivalry was unreal.

I absolutely agree. I'm sorry but while Phoenix may have some good fans, the fact is over the last 5-6 years they have not ranked higher than 23rd in attendance capacity and 30,29, 30 in the last 3 years. and since 00-01 no higher than 19th in attendance. and 8 out of the last 11 seasons they have been in the botton 5. but yet Bettman and the owners insist on keep the team there.
- nastyflyergirl

I dont know why they keep them there. Yeah they are a large tv market, but does anyone tune in?