Yeah but none of those teams came close to the ones from pre lockout....2004
- Philly1980

It'll be okay, friend. Cap, revenue sharing, and CBAs in general be damned, Clode will carry this team to glory.

Thats fine and dandy.....put a luxury tax or something. Let teams that can spend, spend.
- Philly1980

I haven't totally made up my mind about that. The cap, while flawed, does allow for a more competitive league to a degree. Maybe there could be a soft cap like the NBA although I don't know how that works exactly.

+1

I hate the idea of taking away two forwards, especially two good 2 way forwards like Read and Voracek when our biggest problem was team defense.
- NickTheKid87

This! A thousand times this!

I haven't totally made up my mind about that. The cap, while flawed, does allow for a more competitive league to a degree. Maybe there could be a soft cap like the NBA although I don't know how that works exactly.
- NickTheKid87

NBA is a bad example....that league has been in a freefall since the 90s ended....I cant bare to watch the nba anymore. As a hockey fan, I pay higher ticket prices, I expect my team to spend more thats it.

I haven't totally made up my mind about that. The cap, while flawed, does allow for a more competitive league to a degree. Maybe there could be a soft cap like the NBA although I don't know how that works exactly.
- NickTheKid87

One place where it works differently is that the NBA allows you to exceed your cap to retain your own players.

As a hockey fan first, I am all for the supporting the other team's that need it. However, I do believe that some franchises need to be relocated, namely Phoenix and Florida. Statistics have shown that youth hockey has grown a ton in these southern markets and teams like Nashville, Dallas, etc. can succeed.
- NickTheKid87

That's really what it's all about, getting those regions interested in the sport. They could certainly relocate those teams northward, toss a couple in Canada, and they'd have the ticket sales. But aside from that, is there really much more revenue potential up there? I'm not sure the merchandise and other sales would go up, I'd think most Canadians are already hockey fans and most are buying as much merchandise as they would either way.

Not to say forcing teams into untapped, perhaps unwilling, southern markets is an ideal plan either, as we've seen.

NBA is a bad example....that league has been in a freefall since the 90s ended....I cant bare to watch the nba anymore. As a hockey fan, I pay higher ticket prices, I expect my team to spend more thats it.
- Philly1980

I need to think about this more to form a legitimate opinion. A lot of good points made.

The problem with the NBA too is that you can sign 3 guys to max salaries when 5 guys are on the court at once i.e. Super Teams like the Heat and Celtics of a few years ago. Now all the stars want to create a big 3 of their own because that's pretty much the only way to win a championship. I still can't get over the fact that an 8 seed has NEVER beaten a 1 seed in the playoffs.

That's really what it's all about, getting those regions interested in the sport. They could certainly relocate those teams northward, toss a couple in Canada, and they'd have the ticket sales. But aside from that, is there really much more revenue potential up there? I'm not sure the merchandise and other sales would go up, I'd think most Canadians are already hockey fans and most are buying as much merchandise as they would either way.

Not to say forcing teams into untapped, perhaps unwilling, southern markets is an ideal plan either, as we've seen.
- BulliesPhan87

Exactly. And when you can grow the game at the youth level, these kids will grow up hockey fans and probably root for their local team and, over the years, a good core fan base will start to develop. Nobody said it would happen over night.

I need to think about this more to form a legitimate opinion. A lot of good points made.

The problem with the NBA too is that you can sign 3 guys to max salaries when 5 guys are on the court at once i.e. Super Teams like the Heat and Celtics of a few years ago. Now all the stars want to create a big 3 of their own because that's pretty much the only way to win a championship. I still can't get over the fact that an 8 seed has NEVER beaten a 1 seed in the playoffs.
- NickTheKid87

You very RARELY see upsets of any kind in the NBA playoffs. Just one more reason why I don't like NBA basketball.

I need to think about this more to form a legitimate opinion. A lot of good points made.

The problem with the NBA too is that you can sign 3 guys to max salaries when 5 guys are on the court at once i.e. Super Teams like the Heat and Celtics of a few years ago. Now all the stars want to create a big 3 of their own because that's pretty much the only way to win a championship. I still can't get over the fact that an 8 seed has NEVER beaten a 1 seed in the playoffs.
- NickTheKid87

i dunno man...My opinion is that teams should spend what their Market allows them to spend. Why should those teams support teams that dont have the market to even cover their operating costs. i can see a loss for like 5 years to get things going, but if after that theres no improvement they need to bail. Phoenix is the prime example of this. Their team got so far in the playoffs. Did anyone down there really care. Did they attain record breaking ratings....Probably not and they will never.

This. You come out with a low ball offer so you have wiggle room to negotiate down to something that is acceptable. Owners ask for 46% Players say 54% Meet in the middle at 49%.

Likewise for everything else. The owners will concede on some spots so they can get what they want on other... its all business strategy and nothing for us to worry about. They will work through the season on the current CBA and if anything there wont be a season following next season.
- RooNosHockey

The threat of a lockout this Season is very real. And there is no guarantee that the League will be willing to continue to play under an extension of the currrent CBA.

Exactly. And when you can grow the game at the youth level, these kids will grow up hockey fans and probably root for their local team and, over the years, a good core fan base will start to develop. Nobody said it would happen over night.
- NickTheKid87

Im all for growing the game....but sticking a team in phoenix doesnt mean hockey will grow there. Look at LA. Theyve been there for 40+ years. Won the cup this year...The Stanley cup ratings in those markets were attrocious this year.

If anything the league needs contraction.

The threat of a lockout this Season is very real. And there is no guarantee that the League will be willing to continue to play under an extension of the currrent CBA.
- MJL

I'm leaning more to there being no season this year.

Im all for growing the game....but sticking a team in Mexico City doesnt mean hockey will grow there. Look at LA. Theyve been there for 40+ years. Won the cup this year...The Stanley cup ratings in those markets were attrocious this year.
- Philly1980

Well LA is an interesting case because it has a huge population yet a lot of displaced people living there with allegiances to other teams.

I agree with you in regards to Phoenix though. Hockey doesn't work there. Same goes for the Panthers. Nashville and Dallas are different though. The former two teams should be relocated but not the latter.

Is next years pick likely to make the Flyers out of camp MJL?
If Bourdon, Lilja, and Gervais are subject to waivers and no other moves are made, will Gus play in the minors MJL?

Instead of nit picking the crap out of 1 small aspect of the post, try and understand that what I was saying is that a deal of Read, Gus and a first will not greatly impact the flyers Current or Future roster much.

As a matter of fact, just ignore my posts. Pretend I dont exist.
- RooNosHockey

Doesn't matter when the first round pick will play, or where Gustafsson will play. It doesn't eliminate them as a valuable asset in the proposed trade scenario. And it doesn't make sense on any level, that all they'd be giving up is Read, because of how long it will take the first round pick to be NHL ready. Or where Gustafsson winds up. A first round pick could be the next Giroux or Simon Gagne. Gustafsson is one of the top prospects in the system. The bottom line is that your statement was illogical. And that is repeated again by your statement here that a first round pick will not greatly affect the future roster much. Simply not true.

I'm leaning more to there being no season this year.
- stveshdy

Me too its a shame. The current system while not perfect works more than the proposed system.

i dunno man...My opinion is that teams should spend what their Market allows them to spend. Why should those teams support teams that dont have the market to even cover their operating costs. i can see a loss for like 5 years to get things going, but if after that theres no improvement they need to bail. Phoenix is the prime example of this. Their team got so far in the playoffs. Did anyone down there really care. Did they attain record breaking ratings....Probably not and they will never.
- Philly1980

Do we know what the true profits and loss statements of each team look like, including conessions, parking, etc.?

It would be difficult to have any opinion without this knowledge. In most economic arrangements, the risk taker should be entitled to greater rewards but also assumes great risk. Sports offer unique models, as the players are the product. In addition, the players don't take any financial risk, but they get paid handsomely. They take many other risks (health, making the team, short careeers), but one they sign they are guaranteed to get paid.

An appropriate model, therefore, IMO, would consist of a lowered salary cap but with some form of profit sharing for the players. Of course you would need agreed upon accouting for this. And potentially revenue sharing amongst the teams.

In such a model, the teams would get paid first, but the players would have incentives.

Well LA is an interesting case because it has a huge population yet a lot of displaced people living there with allegiances to other teams.

I agree with you in regards to Phoenix though. Hockey doesn't work there. Same goes for the Panthers. Nashville and Dallas are different though. The former two teams should be relocated but not the latter.
- NickTheKid87

I dont mind nashville or dallas they are very well run teams. they will likely become very profitable teams. Some teams are run like crap.

You very RARELY see upsets of any kind in the NBA playoffs. Just one more reason why I don't like NBA basketball.
- MBFlyerfan

Basketball, at least the NBA variety, is very superstar driven. A guy like Kobe or LeBron is going to be on the floor a higher percentage of the game than a guy like Giroux or Crosby.

Also as bad as NHL refs can be, NBA refs obviously allow name guys to get away with more

I dont mind nashville or dallas they are very well run teams. they will likely become very profitable teams. Some teams are run like crap.
- Philly1980

According to reports both Nashville & Dallas lost money last year

I dont mind nashville or dallas they are very well run teams. they will likely become very profitable teams. Some teams are run like crap.
- Philly1980

Well that's not really the market they're in's fault. Yzerman has done a great job as GM in Tampa and that city is notorious for having a terrible fan base. It also helps to have Stamkos score 60 goals.

Do we know what the true profits and loss statements of each team look like, including conessions, parking, etc.?

It would be difficult to have any opinion without this knowledge. In most economic arrangements, the risk taker should be entitled to greater rewards but also assumes great risk. Sports offer unique models, as the players are the product. In addition, the players don't take any financial risk, but they get paid handsomely. They take many other risks (health, making the team, short careeers), but one they sign they are guaranteed to get paid.

An appropriate model, therefore, IMO, would consist of a lowered salary cap but with some form of profit sharing for the players. Of course you would need agreed upon accouting for this. And potentially revenue sharing amongst the teams.

In such a model, the teams would get paid first, but the players would have incentives.
- Daman

That would be a good system if all of the players had the same talent level. How do you go about determining profit sharing...Why should giroux get the same level as as a thrid fourth line player. I would not want to see what the accounting on that would look like.

According to reports both Nashville & Dallas lost money last year
- Jsaquella

It doesnt mean they are not well run. I can have the best run business in the world, but if the demands not there then yeah i will loose money. If the teams overall value has increased from year to year than that to me is the telling factor. For instance what was the team worth when they came into the league and what is its overall value now.

Doesn't matter when the first round pick will play, or where Gustafsson will play. It doesn't eliminate them as a valuable asset in the proposed trade scenario. And it doesn't make sense on any level, that all they'd be giving up is Read, because of how long it will take the first round pick to be NHL ready. Or where Gustafsson winds up. A first round pick could be the next Giroux or Simon Gagne. Gustafsson is one of the top prospects in the system. The bottom line is that your statement was illogical. And that is repeated again by your statement here that a first round pick will not greatly affect the future roster much. Simply not true.
- MJL

Let's be honest. Anaheim sucks. They need to rebuild. I would argue that the Flyers are built to win now. Trading Read, Gus and a 1st could make sense for both teams. I don't think anyone is saying that a 1st round pick is not valuable.

I think what people are saying is that they would sacrifice a 1st round pick because we are built to win now and that immediately Bobby Ryan enhances the 2012-2013 Flyers chances of winning more than Read and Gus. I find this a very tough position to argue.

-The Jersey Gent

According to reports both Nashville & Dallas lost money last year
- Jsaquella

I don't know the ins and outs of each clubs finances and the leagues overall but I have to think giving up 57% of the pie will mean lost of teams losing money