i just find the whole thing so intriguing

so much more intense than normal trade negotiations, obviously

but all the bluffing and counterbluffing and posturing and trying to predict what the other side is thinking or willing to do is crazy to think about
- Crimsoninja

Agreed. And in this instance especially the Preds need to have an absolute wall o secrecy. if for example they have no intention to match, they have to play it like they will to maximize the Gratton deal back. If the flyers got that intel, the preds will be lucky if the wind up with lilja and a bag of pucks. That said i hope that doesn't happen. I rather that the flyers give something (small) back

at the same time though, Nashville could attempt to see if Holmer is bluffing

i agree the flyers have the majority of the leverage here, but Nashville still has some cards to play
- Crimsoninja

They can call Homers bluff and say we're going to match the offer. Homer's team is set pretty much. The Flyers have Nashville pinned down, Nashville can't threaten the Flyers.

To me its Weber or nothing. I'm not trading pieces. Match or Dont match.

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20120726T00&p0=198&msg=WEBER%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21
- aightwebang17

lol

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20120726T00&p0=198&msg=WEBER%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21
- aightwebang17

I was looking to make one of these yesterday but I was tired and knew somebody would have one up soon enough.

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20120726T00&p0=198&msg=WEBER%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21
- aightwebang17

So we're the Broad Street Bullies even in the off season.

The more likely it plays out, the more likely a trade is in the works, so, yes, I agree with this sentiment.

Right now though Nashville is probably just crunching numbers.
- LordStanley88

I also think that getting several owners to come to a "consensus" as to the proper direction forward will be no small feat in and of itself for Nashville. The HB boards have a ton of great thoughts (although just thoughts) as to the real Nashville situation. Only the owners themselves have that luxury of full knowledge.

Trying to get several mid-level managers of a business to come to a consensus on even trivial matters is often difficult. This situation involves several M/Billionairs who likely have a lot of inputs and ideas as to what the future of the franchise ought to be and how they should get there.

The idea that time spent is good for the Flyers is probably right, but I wouldn't read too much into that. A discussion between these owners that may likely decide the long-term fate of the franchise will take a bunch of time IMHO.

So we're the Broad Street Bullies even in the off season.
- rockychocbill

So be it. The Flyers are doing no wrong here. They tried to trade with Nashville and the asking price is ridiculous so Homer went another route.

Nashville put themselves in this current position, I dont feel bad for the small market team.

For all the Naysayers heres nashvilles income statement.....yeah good luck matching



Lol you see theat 6.5 million subsidies....are they going to ask the tax payers to pay weber lol
- Philly1980

I am curious - where did you get these figures? Apparently, the city of NSH has asked the club for profit and loss statements on several times and been rebuffed. (Many sports companies do not reveal such figures).

Also, your figures can be read another way. Since 2005-6, (essentially the Suter/Weber/Rinne era) the revenues have gone up by 11 mil odd. Assume that with 2 of the 3 gone, they will fall that much, and every year. In fact they may fall by more because in those days the franchise was going North and now there will be a death whiff about it. If they they don't reduce hockey expenses, then that is a loss of 66 m over 6 years, not too different from the 68 m in bonus money due to Weber.

Yes, it going to be rough for 1 year, but most worthwhile businesses can find money to tide over a crisis if the long run fundamentals are good.

I would put my vote squarely in the match column.

So be it. The Flyers are doing no wrong here. They tried to trade with Nashville and the asking price is ridiculous so Homer went another route.

Nashville put themselves in this current position, I dont feel bad for the small market team.
- stveshdy

So to speak, he's paying the price and going to the net.

They can call Homers bluff and say we're going to match the offer. Homer's team is set pretty much. The Flyers have Nashville pinned down, Nashville can't threaten the Flyers.

To me its Weber or nothing. I'm not trading pieces. Match or Dont match.
- stveshdy

i think the flyers would agree to a reasonable deal

they want this guy bad. and to lose out on him while being this close is not something i see them doing.

but like you said, if its a total bluff by Nashville, the Flyers really have to be careful with who they agree to give up.

I am curious - where did you get these figures? Apparently, the city of NSH has asked the club for profit and loss statements on several times and been rebuffed. (Many sports companies do not reveal such figures).

Also, your figures can be read another way. Since 2005-6, (essentially the Suter/Weber/Rinne era) the revenues have gone up by 11 mil odd. Assume that with 2 of the 3 gone, they will fall that much, and every year. In fact they may fall by more because in those days the franchise was going North and now there will be a death whiff about it. If they they don't reduce hockey expenses, then that is a loss of 66 m over 6 years, not too different from the 68 m in bonus money due to Weber.

Yes, it going to be rough for 1 year, but most worthwhile businesses can find money to tide over a crisis if the long run fundamentals are good.

I would put my vote squarely in the match column.
- PT21

But (according to this thing we have no way of knowing is real or not, so ehhh......), apparently expenses went up by 22M. It looks like expenses are outrising the revenue.

How do they fit Jake without using the LTIR money?
I know they can go the % over during the off season, but don't they need to be compliant prior to opening night and LTIT doesn't kick in until opening night?
- nails

They'll be able to place Pronger on LTIR before the first game.

i think the flyers would agree to a reasonable deal

they want this guy bad. and to lose out on him while being this close is not something i see them doing.

but like you said, if its a total bluff by Nashville, the Flyers really have to be careful with who they agree to give up.
- Crimsoninja

Honestly, I never want ONE player to control our outcome. Would it be nice to have Weber? Sure it would be. I just dont think its the end of the world if he isnt here. Thats the difference in GM's, some panic and others stand pat. Homer knows what hes doing and hes not scared of anything b/c this guy traded away his two superstars last season. Nashville can match the choices is theres. I dont see a need to help with a trade. I understand they want Weber but what makes this deal anybetter getting MAB, Voracek and picks? If the Flyers give anything significant up its not a smart business decision. They are throwing a boat load of cash at Weber we dont need to make Nashville happy and please them. Match or dont match. Homer called their bluff, now lets see if Nashville calls his. Homer laid his monster hand down, in a few days lets see if the Preds have the better hand.

It could. There was no "cap circumvention" clause in the CBA before the Kovalchuk contract happened. The league just made something up on the fly and rejected it. Nashville could hope the league does the same thing with the Flyers' use of the bonus money.

Or... does an offer sheet already have to pass through some kind of initial league approval before (or after) a player signs it? If it does, than the league has already said it's ok.
- eayost

There is an entire article in the CBA with all encompassing language on Cap Circumvention.

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20120726T00&p0=198&msg=WEBER%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21
- aightwebang17

*refreshes*

But (according to this thing we have no way of knowing is real or not, so ehhh......), apparently expenses went up by 22M. It looks like expenses are outrising the revenue.
- eayost

Upon closer inspection, that $22m increase is almost entirely player salaries. Just throwing that out there.

Honestly, I never want ONE player to control our outcome. Would it be nice to have Weber? Sure it would be. I just dont think its the end of the world if he isnt here. Thats the difference in GM's, some panic and others stand pat. Homer knows what hes doing and hes not scared of anything b/c this guy traded away his two superstars last season. Nashville can match the choices is theres. I dont see a need to help with a trade. I understand they want Weber but what makes this deal anybetter getting MAB, Voracek and picks? If the Flyers give anything significant up its not a smart business decision. They are throwing a boat load of cash at Weber we dont need to make Nashville happy and please them. Match or dont match. Homer called their bluff, now lets see if Nashville calls his. Homer laid his monster hand down, in a few days lets see if the Preds have the better hand.
- stveshdy

but its not that simple, imo
you can say sports is a business..which is true.. but its still unique in that winning is a goal in addition to profit.
if they give up Jake, MAB, picks, etc... you could say its a bad business deal... but if they win a Cup with Weber, it would then become hard to say it was a bad business deal.

So be it. The Flyers are doing no wrong here. They tried to trade with Nashville and the asking price is ridiculous so Homer went another route.

Nashville put themselves in this current position, I dont feel bad for the small market team.
- stveshdy

I know. It just further enhances our rep (good and bad) around the league.

So to speak, he's paying the price and going to the net.
- BulliesPhan87

A good manager always leads by example.

* as I sit at my computer on a hockey board during work hours.*

Nashville trying to say it's cap circumenvetion I think. They will fail with this appeal though.

Fully complies with Kovalchuck "rule".
- LordStanley88

where do you see this?

but its not that simple, imo
you can say sports is a business..which is true.. but its still unique in that winning is a goal in addition to profit.
if they give up Jake, MAB, picks, etc... you could say its a bad business deal... but if they win a Cup with Weber, it would then become hard to say it was a bad business deal.
- Crimsoninja

I'm looking at it from Nashville's view.

Option 1. 4 1st rounders
Option 2. 2 1st rounders, Voracek, MAB

Either option isnt going to make an immediate impact for the Preds (over the top). The Flyers are refusing to trade Read, Couturier, or Schenn. So does making Option 2 really help the Preds? The Flyers don't need to overpay in a trade. They have an offer sheet in thats monsterous. I just think the Flyers know the offer sheet cant be matched.

Flyers 80%
Preds 20%

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20120726T00&p0=198&msg=WEBER%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21
- aightwebang17

This is now a permanent open window on my desktop. Thanks

There is an entire article in the CBA with all encompassing language on Cap Circumvention.
- MJL

Is that the Kovalchuk rule or something that was in the CBA when first written? If it was already there, why was there a fiasco with Kovalchuk?

Do bartenders still know how to make tequila sunrises?
- bodiva88

fill tall glass with ice... tequila, orange juice, grenadine ...pretty easy