Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Defense Pairings, Labor Day

Not gonna say first.

Tough call on what to blog about. We are already on pins and needles about the CBA issue, but may be burned out by the time the 15th even rolls around. But as long as there is something to report or discuss on it, I guess that is where the greatest interest will be. I have great hope they will continue to bargain in good faith and get something done.....sooner rather than later. While I am appreciative of the concessions and direction thus far, I hope we can continue to get mOvement in a positive direction. I hope this HRR definition thing isn't just perceived as smoke and mirrors.

happy labor day. The defensive lineup looks good on paper but injuries will happen and when they do that's when imo it will get dicey thus forcing a trade. I'd like another all around durable type. Not criticizing the Flyers either for this predicament because they gambled and lost (for now) on Weber. However as fans I think we can agree that we were all willing for them to take that risk regardless the outcome. Especially with all the Matt Carle female doging that went on. I'd love to have him now but what's done is done.

If there is any type of lockout, I personally would like to read what you have to say on a weekly basis if any, Bill. Guess your analysis and insight is a curse during these things

I still feel like I had to check the CBA box.

But I really want to hear about my other choice, prospects in juniors and college. I love following these kids and their development.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Defense Pairings, Labor Day
- bmeltzer

I'll try to pay attention to junior hockey, it would be nice if the NHL network would cover it in the absence of of NHL play.

The key is Bryz with this D, if he is inconsistant this team is in trouble.

Bill Meltzer: MMusings: Defense Pairings, Labor Day
- bmeltzer

Nice Read Bill,

I was hoping to read more details on how strong/effective you feel the possible third pair might be. I feel we're not very strong on d. Timonen and Coburn are very reliable as far as health and what has to be done on the ice but then Grossman's health is in question at times and Schenn still has some growing to do himself on the ice. From what I see, Schenn is a solid shot blocker and a punishing hitter but is prone to coughing up the puck in the defensive zone and putting himself out position when looking to make a big hit if he misses (happens to all Hitters).

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Defense Pairings, Labor Day
- bmeltzer

I'd prefer to read your take on the Phantoms/Flyers playing in Europe.

Not that your past insights on the CBA talks haven't been good reading, but it's going to be overblown. I'd rather hear about games being played and your views on that, because your abilities in that area are a tremendous strength and make you a must read for any serious Flyers fan.

I like the pairs you have suggested. I think that the top four will see the most minutes and the other two will not only be used as a pair, but mix and match with the top four guys to spell them and limit the possibility of a fire drill with the weakest two on the ice at the same time.

I'd prefer to read your take on the Phantoms/Flyers playing in Europe.

Not that your past insights on the CBA talks haven't been good reading, but it's going to be overblown. I'd rather hear about games being played and your views on that, because your abilities in that area are a tremendous strength and make you a must read for any serious Flyers fan.

I like the pairs you have suggested. I think that the top four will svretee the most minutes and the other two will not only be used as a pair, but mix and match with the top four guys to spell them and limit the possibility of a fire drill with the weakest two on the ice at the same time.
- Jsaquella

You nailed it. After Pronger went down, it seemed like Carle was automatically paired with sommeone like Bourdon, Syvret, Kubina or anyone else who wasn't going to reach standards. Now our third pair becomes even worse with the loss of Carle.

I am very much pro Bouwmeester if it is possible to get him. I just hate hearing that the Flames demands are high

You nailed it. After Pronger went down, it seemed like Carle was automatically paired with sommeone like Bourdon, Syvret, Kubina or anyone else who wasn't going to reach standards. Now our third pair becomes even worse with the loss of Carle.

I am very much pro Bouwmeester if it is possible to get him. I just hate hearing that the Flames demands are high
- SuperSchennBros

I say stay away from J-Bo. The price is too high & the product is not going to fix anything. I say aim for someone like Jordan Leopold. Solid 2nd pairing guy who can score but may cost little as Buffalo has to resign Ennis and Leo's 3 mil salary with an overfull Buffalo might make him a trade target for some lower round picks. Fixes the problem for now, unless Homer has a line on a Carlson or a Subban in a trade.

Also I still think you split up Coburn & Grossman with Gervais & Bourdon/Gus. Turn the beginning season into veteran teaching time and roll 3 pairs & in the Latter half you'll have a better defensive core and you can put Coburn & Grossman back together for the long stretch and Bourdon, Gus & Gervais should be a stronger 3rd pairing. But either we need to teach, or we need to get another D-man.

You nailed it. After Pronger went down, it seemed like Carle was automatically paired with sommeone like Bourdon, Syvret, Kubina or anyone else who wasn't going to reach standards. Now our third pair becomes even worse with the loss of Carle.

I am very much pro Bouwmeester if it is possible to get him. I just hate hearing that the Flames demands are high
- SuperSchennBros

If they could get Bouwmeester for a second rounder and mid level prospect, I'd be open to it. But at the same time, Calgary is demanding a ton for him. I'm OK with the defense, so long as the forwards play more responsible two way hockey.

On paper, the Flyers defensemen are better than the crew the Devils had last year, and they got to the Final. If the attention to team defense improves, they'll be adequate.

If they could get Bouwmeester for a second rounder and mid level prospect, I'd be open to it. But at the same time, Calgary is demanding a ton for him. I'm OK with the defense, so long as the forwards play more responsible two way hockey.

On paper, the Flyers defensemen are better than the crew the Devils had last year, and they got to the Final. If the attention to team defense improves, they'll be adequate.
- Jsaquella

I like our D core much better then I like the Flames D core. I also don't want to give up the farm for Bouemeester but I am willing to give up one of Voracek or Read, then add Cousins and a second. That's about as far as I am willing to go. I'm just thinking ahead once Timonen moves on. I just feel we need another puck mover, even if Meszaros was healthy.

I also feel we need a more dominating forward to play with Giroux but at the moment, I'm unsure what's more of a priority.
In my opinion, right now we are looking at a marginal playoff team. Maybe a seventh or eighth seed type. Of course I could be dead wrong.

I like our D core much better then I like the Flames D core. I also don't want to give up the farm for Bouemeester but I am willing to give up one of Voracek or Read, then add Cousins and a second. That's about as far as I am willing to go. I'm just thinking ahead once Timonen moves on. I just feel we need another puck mover, even if Meszaros was healthy.

I also feel we need a more dominating forward to play with Giroux but at the moment, I'm unsure what's more of a priority.
In my opinion, right now we are looking at a marginal playoff team. Maybe a seventh or eighth seed type. Of course I could be dead wrong.
- SuperSchennBros

I wouldn't trade Voracek straight across for Bouwmeester, nevermind adding Cousins and a 2nd rounder!

I wouldn't trade Voracek straight across for Bouwmeester, nevermind adding Cousins and a 2nd rounder!
- Cable2k

I agree. And I wouldn't give up Read for Bouwmeester either. If they ask for Voracek that's an immediate hang up of the phone and a non starter.

I like our D core much better then I like the Flames D core. I also don't want to give up the farm for Bouemeester but I am willing to give up one of Voracek or Read, then add Cousins and a second. That's about as far as I am willing to go. I'm just thinking ahead once Timonen moves on. I just feel we need another puck mover, even if Meszaros was healthy.

I also feel we need a more dominating forward to play with Giroux but at the moment, I'm unsure what's more of a priority.
In my opinion, right now we are looking at a marginal playoff team. Maybe a seventh or eighth seed type. Of course I could be dead wrong.
- SuperSchennBros

There's no way I trade Voracek for Bouwmeester, straight up, let alone add assets. To me, that's an overpayment. Also, with Cousins' off ice issues, I doubt he has any trade value right now.

I think the Flyers are 4th or 5th in the east. I doubt they're a fringe playoff team. They have solid scoring depth, and if healthy a very capable top four. I also feel Bryzgalov has a strong year.

There's no way I trade Voracek for Bouwmeester, straight up, let alone add assets. To me, that's an overpayment. Also, with Cousins' off ice issues, I doubt he has any trade value right now.

I think the Flyers are 4th or 5th in the east. I doubt they're a fringe playoff team. They have solid scoring depth, and if healthy a very capable top four. I also feel Bryzgalov has a sterong year.
- Jsaquella

I look at Bouemeester as being low risk and high reward. A deal for him reminds of when Matt Carle first goal here. I felt his contact was too high and he wasn't meeting the money he was making but somehow he worked out. Carle had a lot of success here through the power of a fresh start. He may not have any playoff experience but neither does Luke Schenn. I'm willing to reserve judgement on J-bo until used him in another uniform.
As for giving up one of Read or Voracek, like both players. However I feel Brayden Schenn could easily replace Read on the ok. It's Read's contract that seems most attractive to me. I'm not overly crazy about Voracek's new deal. I'm hoping Voracek can take the next step into the 60-70 points rage but I don't have a lot of faith in that happening. If we could sign Doan (long shot), I think that could help and change the look of our forwards

Sorry all. I am using a cell phone and it corrects everything. I haven't gotten the hang of it yet.

I look at Bouemeester as being low risk and high reward. A deal for him reminds of when Matt Carle first goal here. I felt his contact was too high and he wasn't meeting the money he was making but somehow he worked out. Carle had a lot of success here through the power of a fresh start. He may not have any playoff experience but neither does Luke Schenn. I'm willing to reserve judgement on J-bo until used him in another uniform.
As for giving up one of Read or Voracek, like both players. However I feel Brayden Schenn could easily replace Read on the ok. It's Read's contract that seems most attractive to me. I'm not overly crazy about Voracek's new deal. I'm hoping Voracek can take the next step into the 60-70 points rage but I don't have a lot of faith in that happening. If we could sign Doan (long shot), I think that could help and change the look of our forwards
- SuperSchennBros

Matt Carle's Cap hit wasn't 6.8M when he came here. Taking on that Cap hit can't be low risk. If B Schenn replaces Read, who replaces B Schenn? There's a domino there. I think Voracek is on the verge of a breakout. Especially if he plays with Giroux.

I look at Bouemeester as being low risk and high reward. A deal for him reminds of when Matt Carle first goal here. I felt his contact was too high and he wasn't meeting the money he was making but somehow he worked out. Carle had a lot of success here through the power of a fresh start. He may not have any playoff experience but neither does Luke Schenn. I'm willing to reserve judgement on J-bo until used him in another uniform.
As for giving up one of Read or Voracek, like both players. However I feel Brayden Schenn could easily replace Read on the ok. It's Read's contract that seems most attractive to me. I'm not overly crazy about Voracek's new deal. I'm hoping Voracek can take the next step into the 60-70 points rage but I don't have a lot of faith in that happening. If we could sign Down (long shot)
- SuperSchennBros

Bouwmeester is a very solid, large minute defenseman. He does a variety of things well. However, he's got an elite level cap hit and he's simply not an elite defenseman. That alone would preclude me from trading a 20 goal or 50 point winger slated for a top 9 role, plus PP and PK time. Not to mention both Read and Voracek are above average two way players.

I see Voracek as a core player. He's 23, coming off a strong playoff and the opportunity to be on a line with Hartnell and Giroux.

My bottom line is, I'm not trading a lot for a very solid defenseman that carries the cap hit of an elite defenseman. There are cheaper guys out there that might not be as good as Bouwmeester, but who can certainly help the Flyers.

Matt Carle's Cap hit wasn't 6.8M when he came here. Taking on that Cap hit can't be low risk. If B Schenn replaces Read, who replaces B Schenn? There's a domino there. I think Voracek is on the verge of a breakout. Especially if he plays with Giroux.
- MJL

Also, Carle was a promising young 23 year old when he was acquired by the Flyers. Bouwmeester is 28. He is what he is. He's not likely to suddenly reach the potential people felt he had back in 2003 when he was drafted.

Bouwmeester is a very solid, large minute defenseman. He does a variety of things well. However, he's got an elite level cap hit and he's simply not an elite defenseman. That alone would preclude me from trading a 20 goal or 50 point winger slated for a top 9 role, plus PP and PK time. Not to mention both Read and Voracek are above average two way players.

I see Voracek as a core player. He's 23, coming off a strong playoff and the opportunity to be on a line with Hartnell and Giroux.

My bottom line is, I'm not trading a lot for a very solid defenseman that carries the cap hit of an elite defenseman. There are cheaper guys out there that might not be as good as Bouwmeester, but who can certainly help the Flyers.
- Jsaquella

Plenty of time to add another defenseman before the deadline (if theres hockey). Lets see what our current group can do before making a big trade. Now if they can get a good defenseman for just a pick and prospect thats something to consider otherwise lets roll with what we have to start.

Matt Carle's Cap hit wasn't 6.8M when he came here. Taking on that Cap hit can't be low risk. If B Schenn replaces Read, who replaces B Schenn? There's a domino there. I think Voracek is on the verge of a breakout. Especially if he plays with Giroux.
- MJL

I would do Read for JBo in a heartbeat.

I feel like we could do 2 skill lines and 2 checking lines.

Who replaces Read?

Hart G Voracek
Schenn Briere Simmonds
Talbot Coots Rusty
Rinaldo Holmstrom Sestito

UNLEASH HELL!!!!!!!!!

Matt Carle's Cap hit wasn't 6.8M when he came here. Taking on that Cap hit can't be low risk. If B Schenn replaces Read, who replaces B Schenn? There's a domino there. I think Voracek is on the verge of a breakout. Especially if he plays with Giroux.
- MJL

You're right. Carle's cap hit wasn't 6.8 million. It was 3 plus million at a time where we had a much lower cap sealing, plus both Briere's and Timonen were only in the middle of their contracts with no end in site. The space will come and we only need it for two seasons. Who replaces Timonen we he moves on? Like I said, I am also interested in Down to add to the forwards because if we traded for Bouwmeester, once everyone is healthy, a defenseman may have to go anyway or we could use a dman to trade for another forward around deadline time. I just feel we need another puck mover

Bouwmeester is a very solid, large minute defenseman. He does a variety of things well. However, he's got an elite level cap hit and he's simply not an elite defenseman. That alone would preclude me from trading a 20 goal or 50 point winger slated for a top 9 role, plus PP and PK time. Not to mention both Read and Voracek are above average two way players.

I see Voracek as a core player. He's 23, coming off a strong playoff and the opportunity to be on a line with Hartnell and Giroux.

My bottom line is, I'm not trading a lot for a very solid defenseman that carries the cap hit of an elite defenseman. There are cheaper guys out there that might not be as good as Bouwmeester, but who can certainly help the Flyers.
- Jsaquella

Is Timonen really an elite defenseman?
Should we expect a Scott Hartnell to score 40 this season?
should we expect Max Talbot to score more then 19?

Bouemeester is a gamble, so question. I just think he needs a fresh start. The same way I expect a more consistent season from Bryz moving forward.