Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Rout on the Island, O'Reilly Rumor

They need to carry this into their game tomorrow night. I would keep Harry Z in the lineup against Pitt

Seven goals, a shutout, a five-for-five performance on the penalty kill against a dangerous power play team, a successful 5-on-3 kill, 2-for-4 on the power play, a 25-13 advantage in credited hits, and a 23-8 edge in blocked shots. I'd call that a pretty good day's work.
- bmeltzer

Yes, a good day's work (even though it was just the Islanders). They need to take all the good things with them now. They need to bring that effort when they play the top teams. Also, they still need to figure out how to play when the game is tight and even when they get down a goal or two.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Rout on the Island, O'Reilly Rumor
- bmeltzer

We'll have to agree to disagree on O'Reilly's future. He was able to amass 55 points while only shooting 6.5% on the season, and doing it against other team's top lines.

But I do agree that I would never trade Couturier for him. In fact, I wouldn't trade for him at all. The Flyers already have a similar player in Couturier to log the tough minutes in the defensive zone against other team's top lines. Could a team use two players like that? Sure, but it's not a good use of assets to give up a lot to acquire something you already have.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Rout on the Island, O'Reilly Rumor
- bmeltzer

Bill,
there was further speculation that the flyers would only be interested in a ROR deal that included eric johnson. don't know how that deal would be expanded from the flyers end (coburn?), but i'm starting to think of EJ as a less durable JBo.

We'll have to agree to disagree on O'Reilly's future. He was able to amass 55 points while only shooting 6.5% on the season, and doing it against other team's top lines.

But I do agree that I would never trade Couturier for him. In fact, I wouldn't trade for him at all. The Flyers already have a similar player in Couturier to log the tough minutes in the defensive zone against other team's top lines. Could a team use two players like that? Sure, but it's not a good use of assets to give up a lot to acquire something you already have.
- bradleyc4

O'Reilly seems unnecessary. What do you guys think of making a push for Bobby Ryan?

That doesn't mean, though, that O'Reilly would not be a fine addition. It just means that I would not make a one-for-one swap of Couturier for him.
- bmeltzer

Agreed. Trading A for A makes no sense. Keep what you have.

Also, I'm not fond of young players holding out for big $. You're 22. Gimme a break. Take a fair contract and go prove yourself. If you turn out to be the real deal the money will come easily.

Bill,
there was further speculation that the flyers would only be interested in a ROR deal that included eric johnson. don't know how that deal would be expanded from the flyers end (coburn?), but i'm starting to think of EJ as a less durable JBo.
- isaiah520

Yeah, no thanks. Rather have Coburn than Erik Johnson.

We'll have to agree to disagree on O'Reilly's future. He was able to amass 55 points while only shooting 6.5% on the season, and doing it against other team's top lines.

But I do agree that I would never trade Couturier for him. In fact, I wouldn't trade for him at all. The Flyers already have a similar player in Couturier to log the tough minutes in the defensive zone against other team's top lines. Could a team use two players like that? Sure, but it's not a good use of assets to give up a lot to acquire something you already have.
- bradleyc4

O'Reilly shot 6.5 percent because he has pretty bad hands from a shooting standpoint. He can't elevate pucks and get them on the net and he struggles to finish in close. In fact, he's NEVER been a good finisher at any level and I don't see him turning into one. He is, however, a pretty good passer so he can be a 50-point guy on the strength of his assist totals.

O'Reilly seems unnecessary. What do you guys think of making a push for Bobby Ryan?
- The_Universe

This better be a (frank)ing joke.

Evaluation of Couturier vs. O'Rielly is right on.

Couturier has great size and soft hands. He is going to get a lot better and play head to head against all the top centers in the league.

But, it makes no sense to trade Couturier for another #2 center. If Couturier (or Schenn) is ever dealt it has to be for a #1 Dman.

O'Reilly shot 6.5 percent because he has pretty bad hands from a shooting standpoint. He can't elevate pucks and get them on the net and he struggles to finish in close. In fact, he's NEVER been a good finisher at any level and I don't see him turning into one. He is, however, a pretty good passer so he can be a 50-point guy on the strength of his assist totals.
- bmeltzer

Sounds kinda like Scotty Gomez...

The win yesterday was different from all the others because Claude Giroux looked like Claude Giroux and that, my friends, is a beautiful thing.

Evaluation of Couturier vs. O'Rielly is right on.

Couturier has great size and soft hands. He is going to get a lot better and play head to head against all the top centers in the league.

But, it makes no sense to trade Couturier for another #2 center. If Couturier (or Schenn) is ever dealt it has to be for a #1 Dman.
- spatso

I was an optimist with JvR, and I am also an optimist with Couts.

I think Couts is gonna evolve into one of the more dynamic players in the game.

Agreed. Trading A for A makes no sense. Keep what you have.

Also, I'm not fond of young players holding out for big $. You're 22. Gimme a break. Take a fair contract and go prove yourself. If you turn out to be the real deal the money will come easily.
- Scoob

On the flip-side, NHL teams who carry 18-year-olds should not be unprepared to have to pay a player based on potential because he reached RFA status early.

The win yesterday was different from all the others because Claude Giroux looked like Claude Giroux and that, my friends, is a beautiful thing.
- NickTheKid87

I watched the replay last night.. That first line looks like it could be scary good with their combination of speed, play-making, finishing ability, and two way play.

On O'Reilly, I'm right with you there Bill. I think acquiring O'Reilly for Couts would be a panic move by the Flyers as well. A quick fix for a little bit of offensive.

I wouldn't mind a larger deal if Erik Johnson was involved. He's already a good defenseman with franchise potential. For that reason, though, I doubt Colorado would part with him.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Rout on the Island, O'Reilly Rumor
- bmeltzer

I'd want any deal built on Couturier for O'Reilly to include a defenseman coming back to Philly. You add Erik Johnson coming back and it might work out. You get a "replacement" for Couturier and a good young defenseman.

It would depend highly on what other pieces were involved.

Also, got to remember, the Flyers asked about O'Reilly and the Avalanche countered with Couturier. Doesn't mean that it's the terms of the trade.

I watched the replay last night.. That first line looks like it could be scary good with their combination of speed, play-making, finishing ability, and two way play.
- jak521

I agree. That line looked sharp but the Isles looked incredibly flat as well whiched helped. It's just nice to see Giroux talking the talking and then walking the walk. Isn't he supposed to be a bad captain?

I agree. That line looked sharp but the Isles looked incredibly flat as well whiched helped. It's just nice to see Giroux talking the talking and then walking the walk. Isn't he supposed to be a bad captain?
- NickTheKid87

The changed to a lighter thread in the "C". Should help take the weight off his chest.

what about couts for Oreily plus a first?

On the flip-side, NHL teams who carry 18-year-olds should not be unprepared to have to pay a player based on potential because he reached RFA status early.
- bradleyc4

That is a slippery slope that as a GM I would avoid. After two lockouts in 8 years it should be a new ballgame here.

I'd want any deal built on Couturier for O'Reilly to include a defenseman coming back to Philly. You add Erik Johnson coming back and it might work out. You get a "replacement" for Couturier and a good young defenseman.

It would depend highly on what other pieces were involved.

Also, got to remember, the Flyers asked about O'Reilly and the Avalanche countered with Couturier. Doesn't mean that it's the terms of the trade.
- Jsaquella

Became enamored with him during team USA's silver medal run but havent got to see him too often in the NHL. Who does he compare to??

what about couts for Oreily plus a first?
- Philly1980

Nope. Wouldn't do it.

Edit: Besides, I believe Colorado wants Couts +

I'd want any deal built on Couturier for O'Reilly to include a defenseman coming back to Philly. You add Erik Johnson coming back and it might work out. You get a "replacement" for Couturier and a good young defenseman.

It would depend highly on what other pieces were involved.

Also, got to remember, the Flyers asked about O'Reilly and the Avalanche countered with Couturier. Doesn't mean that it's the terms of the trade.
- Jsaquella

Exactly, JS. If there's more coming back where the Flyers end up being a better team for it, then you do it.

But as a one-for-one trade, it's not even worth talking about from a hockey or cap standpoint. Again, I hold to the Jordan Staal vs. RJ Umberger (or long-term Joe Nieuwendyk vs. Rod Brind'Amour pipedream scenario). Either which way, I'm higher on Couturier's upside than O'Reilly's and the thought of spending MORE to get O'Reilly makes said idea a non-starter.