Paul Stewart: The Udvari Rule: Exuberance vs. Showboating

Another great read Paul.

I think that understanding of context and significance is the single biggest differentiator between an NHL ref and minor league refs.

It can be frustrating as a fan when it starts to feel as though the refs are determining the outcome of the game, rather than simply keeping the competition within the boundaries of the rules.

He told me, "Stewy, remember yourself as a player, and how you felt during a game. If an opponent does something to you that you would get ticked off at, then that is a penalty. Forget all the other things about trying to read the play because you will end up over-officiating. Just feel the play.”

The problem with that line of thinking is that some people have much thicker skins than others.

Paul Stewart: The Udvari Rule: Exuberance vs. Showboating
- Paul Stewart

Great blog!

Another excellent blog Stewie. Frank Udvari was a terrific fund of knowledge about the fine points of officiating. I often questioned him during his time as a Supervisor if he was at a game and I was confused about a call. His explanations were always succinct and to the point. Frank, however, also has the distinction of being the first (and so far one of only four) members of the Hockey Hall of Fame to appear on the ice in an NHL game after being elected to the Hall!

Frank retired in 1966 after 15 seasons to become an NHL Supervisor of Officials and was elected to the HHOF as an official in 1973. On December 30, 1978, he was supervising a game at the Nassau Coliseum between the New York Islanders and Atlanta Flames when referee Dave Newell was injured early in the contest and was unable to continue. Udvari (who was 54 at the time) did not hesitate to slip on Newell's striped sweater, borrowed a pair of skates from Islander's star Bryan Trottier, and stepped on the ice for the first time in a dozen years to call the rest of the game. Though he called only two minor penalties, ironically Udvari's most important call of the night came when he disallowed an Islanders' goal -- scored by Bryan Trottier!


Frank Udvari in his heyday as a pre-expansion NHL referee.

The other three who followed him back on the ice after election to the Hall were all players. Gordie Howe (elected in 1972) played one final season in the NHL with Hartford in 1979-80 after the Whalers joined the league from the WHA. Gordie not only was 52 at the time, he played in all 80 games!

Guy Lafleur, another great right wing who starred for fourteen seasons with the Montreal Canadiens before his retirement from the Habs in 1985, also made a return to the NHL after being inducted in the HHOF in 1988 appearing in 169 games with the New York Rangers and Quebec Nordiques between 1988 and 1991 before finally hanging up his skates for the last time at age 39.

After twelve glorious seasons with the Pittsburgh Penguins, center Mario Lemieux retired in 1997 owing to chronic back and other injuries and, like Howe, was also immediately elected to the HHOF without having to wait the customary three years. Three years later, however, Lemieux -- after first rescuing the Pens from bankruptcy -- also returned to the ice and over the next five seasons (2000-06) played in a total of another 188 regular season and playoff games with Pittsburgh.

Frank Udvari, however, will always have the distinction of being the first to do so, and you could not have had a better mentor.

I never really minded things like the Moose Shuffle, because defenseman Andre Dupont did it only when one of his (relatively rare) goals meant something when it was scored; it was almost definitely spontaneous the first time it happened. It did bug me when Sean Avery would do things -- like the pushups in the corner -- that seemed to be planned in advance just in case he scored a goal.

I personally did have a problem with the Hertl goal. Yes, it's the defense's fault for not stopping him and the goalie's for not making a save. But to me (as a Flyers' fan who hates the Rangers), that's just disrespectful showing up a team like that when the score's 8-2.

I used to play in a men's league with my 15-16 year old team when we were ranked #1 in the nation (roller, Junior Olympic). We never got special treatment, and games sometimes got rough, and we handled ourselves okay mostly due to being more balanced skaters. One game, we were up by some ridiculous score like 9-1 late in the game. Our idiotic coach said, loud enough for everyone to hear, "No more shots; just work on your passing." Basically saying to the other team, "We're just gonna work on some stuff, we don't respect you as a team at all." My dad got into the coach' face and told him he was gonna get one of us killed, at which point one of the men on the other team looked right at our coach dead in the eye and said, "He's absolutely right," and laced it with a few choice words. Basically, if you're gonna have your players show us up like this, we're not gonna be too pleased."

Getting back on topic, if I were a Rangers' player, and saw a player show an absolute lack of respect for my team by doing a trick show during game play, I would have dropped him before he got to the bench and the coach even had a chance to sit him (read: protect him) for the rest of the game.

Just my take.

I never really minded things like the Moose Shuffle, because defenseman Andre Dupont did it only when one of his (relatively rare) goals meant something when it was scored; it was almost definitely spontaneous the first time it happened. It did bug me when Sean Avery would do things -- like the pushups in the corner -- that seemed to be planned in advance just in case he scored a goal.
- bmeltzer

The more wide spread egregious hotdogging today (especially by younger players) is actually a relatively recent manifestation which rarely happened in the old days with the exception of a few of the more colorful personalities in the game such as Tiger Williams and Eddie "The Entertainer" Shack. Besides Moose (which I agree his shuffle was spontaneous and an appropriate manifestation of his personality) or a unobtrusive Brian Propp "gaffaw", hardly any Flyer has engaged in such displays over the years, and often their responses have been quite the opposite. When Tim Kerr, for instance, scored a goal (and he potted plenty of them) his "celebration" was so under expressed that it was almost as if he was embarassed that anybody noticed. Personal humility has always been a highly prized element in hockey because success is so dependent on the team as a whole and goals are really mostly the result of a team effort irrespective of who actually puts the puck in the net.

The more wide spread egregious hotdogging today (especially by younger players) is actually a relatively recent manifestation which rarely happened in the old days with the exception of a few of the more colorful personalities in the game such as Tiger Williams and Eddie "The Entertainer" Shack. Besides Moose (which I agree his shuffle was spontaneous and an appropriate manifestation of his personality) or a unobtrusive Brian Propp "gaffaw", hardly any Flyer has engaged in such displays over the years, and often their responses have been quite the opposite. When Tim Kerr, for instance, scored a goal (and he potted plenty of them) his "celebration" was so under expressed that it was almost as if he was embarassed that anybody noticed. Personal humility has always been a highly prized element in hockey because success is so dependent on the team as a whole and goals are really mostly the result of a team effort irrespective of who actually puts the puck in the net.
- iScoop

Thoughts on Selanne when he broke Bossy's record. That was 20 years ago..

Thoughts on Selanne when he broke Bossy's record. That was 20 years ago..
- AGalchenyuk27

I have no problem with what happened there as he was setting a new NHL record which was much anticipated by the home Jets' crowd. Selanne's "stick pump" lasted barely one second before he was surrounded by his teammates who all left the bench to congratulate him and celebrate the record. After that he went quietly to the bench with his teammates. I'm sure nobody from the Nordiques felt he was doing anything to embarrass or disrespect them.

I have no problem with what happened there as he was setting a new NHL record which was much anticipated by the home Jets' crowd. Selanne's "stick pump" lasted barely one second before he was surrounded by his teammates who all left the bench to congratulate him and celebrate the record. After that he went quietly to the bench with his teammates. I'm sure nobody from the Nordiques felt he was doing anything to embarrass or disrespect them.
- iScoop

Thanks, I would agree. Record breakers are meant to be celebrated. Gretzky celebrated a few of those big goals or points as well.

I personally did have a problem with the Hertl goal. Yes, it's the defense's fault for not stopping him and the goalie's for not making a save. But to me (as a Flyers' fan who hates the Rangers), that's just disrespectful showing up a team like that when the score's 8-2.

I used to play in a men's league with my 15-16 year old team when we were ranked #1 in the nation (roller, Junior Olympic). We never got special treatment, and games sometimes got rough, and we handled ourselves okay mostly due to being more balanced skaters. One game, we were up by some ridiculous score like 9-1 late in the game. Our idiotic coach said, loud enough for everyone to hear, "No more shots; just work on your passing." Basically saying to the other team, "We're just gonna work on some stuff, we don't respect you as a team at all." My dad got into the coach' face and told him he was gonna get one of us killed, at which point one of the men on the other team looked right at our coach dead in the eye and said, "He's absolutely right," and laced it with a few choice words. Basically, if you're gonna have your players show us up like this, we're not gonna be too pleased."

Getting back on topic, if I were a Rangers' player, and saw a player show an absolute lack of respect for my team by doing a trick show during game play, I would have dropped him before he got to the bench and the coach even had a chance to sit him (read: protect him) for the rest of the game.

Just my take.
- jmatchett383

The Rangers did nothing, so they have nobody else to blame.

Really entertaining blog. When reading about pre-arranged celebrations I was wondering what refs thought of Mike Foligno's jump after every goal. It was obviously pre-arranged but not that big of a deal.

The more wide spread egregious hotdogging today (especially by younger players) is actually a relatively recent manifestation which rarely happened in the old days with the exception of a few of the more colorful personalities in the game such as Tiger Williams and Eddie "The Entertainer" Shack. Besides Moose (which I agree his shuffle was spontaneous and an appropriate manifestation of his personality) or a unobtrusive Brian Propp "gaffaw", hardly any Flyer has engaged in such displays over the years, and often their responses have been quite the opposite. When Tim Kerr, for instance, scored a goal (and he potted plenty of them) his "celebration" was so under expressed that it was almost as if he was embarassed that anybody noticed. Personal humility has always been a highly prized element in hockey because success is so dependent on the team as a whole and goals are really mostly the result of a team effort irrespective of who actually puts the puck in the net.
- iScoop

A couple more recent Flyers had "signature moves" after every goal. Briere with his one knee arm pump and Jagr with his salute. Obviously planned celebrations because they did the same thing every time, and both scored many goals over their careers. These usually didn't take much time or draw attention, so I didn't mind too much. Still, there were times when they did it at a point in the game (down by multiple goals late) that I didn't see much cause for celebration.

Its all about time and place. Spontaneous stuff is awesome. Planned stuff is BS.

We see it way more in football with their stupid dances. Especially when you just scored a touchdown to get your team within 30.....

Act like ya been there before.


As for the Hertl goal, I loved it. It showed guts and skill and was probably the best move he could make to score the goal......and that is the point.

"Appointment" Blogging Stewie!

A couple more recent Flyers had "signature moves" after every goal. Briere with his one knee arm pump and Jagr with his salute. Obviously planned celebrations because they did the same thing every time, and both scored many goals over their careers. These usually didn't take much time or draw attention, so I didn't mind too much. Still, there were times when they did it at a point in the game (down by multiple goals late) that I didn't see much cause for celebration.
- Adam1

Its all about time and place. Spontaneous stuff is awesome. Planned stuff is BS.

We see it way more in football with their stupid dances. Especially when you just scored a touchdown to get your team within 30.....

Act like ya been there before.

As for the Hertl goal, I loved it. It showed guts and skill and was probably the best move he could make to score the goal......and that is the point.

"Appointment" Blogging Stewie!

- MBFlyerfan

I completely agree on all points above. As long as celebrations are respectful of the game and all its participants, are measured, and are appropriate for the circumstances (the score, etc) I think they are fine. I also thought the Hertl goal was just fine too, entertained the crowd (who are the paying customers after all), was scored completely within the rules, and the celebration included no mocking or taunting of the opposition.

I still fail to see how Hertl goal could offend people. He didn't taunt the opposition, insult them or exagerated his celebration, which leaves the goal itself. How is the way a goal is scored, offensive? The problem in the NHL nowadays is there is no sportsmanship let alone respect. With all the headshots and concussions closing in on 1 a day proves this lack of respect. So if there is no respect to begin with, what is the problem with scoring a pretty goal even when the score is up?