Tim Panaccio: Vote on Downie Deal

I don't understand why the "dislike" is winning. talbot, while solid at his role, is a fringe third-liner and above average fourth liner. he was very expendable as they have other personnel to vill the PK void.

downie, while he has some questions marks, has proven to be effective in a Top 9 role - as well as a Top 6. he's 26, they don't have to commit to him, and he clearly has more skill than talbot and plays a very physical game.

flyers did not pay a lot - here's the Top 9 LW we've been searching for since not calling gagne back.

Maybe Tim and Al should be educating Flyer Fans on what Downie has become since leaving Philly and why this deal has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with getting someone that can play some offense on Giroux's other wing.

The Value of Talbot is slightly better than Adam Hall at this point. Talbot is a nice role player who had a breakout year and has not and will never come close to it again.

Maybe Tim and Al should be educating Flyer Fans on what Downie has become since leaving Philly and why this deal has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with getting someone that can play some offense on Giroux's other wing.

The Value of Talbot is slightly better than Adam Hall at this point. Talbot is a nice role player who had a breakout year and has not and will never come close to it again.
- flyers2001

Plus he has some upside still. I think a lot of people are "attached" to the current players, and realistically Talbot was one of the players than was most expendable.

Wouldn't be shocked if someone like Simmer was packaged in a trade for a top-pairing D guy eventually. People would freak out I'm sure, but these are the tradeable guys. Not the Hartnells.

- JW98FlyerFan

Tim - You have fallen into the Sielski trap. When did any Flyer personnel decree a culture change was coming? My memory is of jacka$$ Sielski trying to ram that idea down Snider's throat and Sielski being very offended when Snider told him no culture change was needed. You and he are trying to force the idea upon all of us. Since when is trying to win looked down upon? It's as simple as this: With Hall and other PKers still here, Downie's offense > Talbot's defence.

Ya gotta stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

Tim - You have fallen into the Sielski trap. When did any Flyer personnel decree a culture change was coming? My memory is of jacka$$ Sielski trying to ram that idea down Snider's throat and Sielski being very offended when Snider told him no culture change was needed. You and he are trying to force the idea upon all of us. Since when is trying to win looked down upon? It's as simple as this: With Hall and other PKers still here, Downie's offense > Talbot's defence.

Ya gotta stop, you're embarrassing yourself.
- danham92

Couldn't have said it better myself. I haven't talked to a single Flyers fan who disliked this trade. They may have liked Talbot, but you've gotta love this trade.

Tim - You have fallen into the Sielski trap. When did any Flyer personnel decree a culture change was coming? My memory is of jacka$$ Sielski trying to ram that idea down Snider's throat and Sielski being very offended when Snider told him no culture change was needed. You and he are trying to force the idea upon all of us. Since when is trying to win looked down upon? It's as simple as this: With Hall and other PKers still here, Downie's offense > Talbot's defence.

Ya gotta stop, you're embarrassing yourself.
- danham92

Well said.. I truly believe we got the better player in this deal. Does it mean we win the deal and start winning games.. who knows.. but we received the better player.

Well said.. I truly believe we got the better player in this deal. Does it mean we win the deal and start winning games.. who knows.. but we received the better player.
- Hextall271

http://www.thehockeynews....he-add-talbot-for-downie/

And I trust THN's opinions much more than Pannachio's. Bob Clarke was right when he called TP an a-hole.

I'm very positive on the trade. Downie will add to the team's skill level, grit, work ethic and determination to win games. I disagree that he has to make G and JV and Hartsy better...he just has to play well with whomever he plays with. He' s more of a playmaker than a scorer and works hard to win loose pucks and get them to guys in good scoring position...I could see him clicking with VLC, Simmer, Hartnell, Read moreso than G or Voracek but who knows...regardless, he adds some things the team can use to win more games. Also, I don't know who told TP that they were so down on the trade. Most reasonable, informed observers I've come across seem to be positive on it.

Flyers fan here...I've always liked Downie, was a little bummed when they traded him back then. I like that he plays on the edge, I'm glad to have him back.

This team need A LOT of help, so I don't expect this trade to magically change the losing ways. Regardless of this trade get rid of Homer.

I'm very positive on the trade. Downie will add to the team's skill level, grit, work ethic and determination to win games. I disagree that he has to make G and JV and Hartsy better...he just has to play well with whomever he plays with. He' s more of a playmaker than a scorer and works hard to win loose pucks and get them to guys in good scoring position...I could see him clicking with VLC, Simmer, Hartnell, Read moreso than G or Voracek but who knows...regardless, he adds some things the team can use to win more games. Also, I don't know who told TP that they were so down on the trade. Most reasonable, informed observers I've come across seem to be positive on it.
- exlund

I really think that the people who don't like this trade haven't watched him since he left.. Yes Talbot is a great guy and solid PK player, and all things being equal we'd keep him.. we NEED to start scoring...or we will be out of this in 2 weeks. Downie will add some grit, but is younger, will provide cap flexibility if need be.

I think it was a good trade. Talbot was in a spot where Schenn and or Cooter play. On another note. Schenn needs to stop fighting. Hes picking all the wrong guys to fight. Hes trying way to hard. Flyers are turning into a joke. I hope they can figure things out. They dont have to be goons. They need to figure out how to play the game. Whats going on isnt acceptable.

In light of tonight.... I would say Colorado won the trade. And the over/under on Downie's concussion leaving him out of the lineup is 25.

That was a true a devastating punch. Hope he is ok but what an idiot taking on Volpatti. And good for Volpatti backing off.

It was a bad deal for Downie, that's for sure. Talbot says winning is fun.

I think it was a good trade. Talbot was in a spot where Schenn and or Cooter play. On another note. Schenn needs to stop fighting. Hes picking all the wrong guys to fight. Hes trying way to hard. Flyers are turning into a joke. I hope they can figure things out. They dont have to be goons. They need to figure out how to play the game. Whats going on isnt acceptable.
- poisondhearts37

Talbot is a good 4th liner and PK guy. Downie is a good 2nd or 3rd liner, who brings energy and fire. The bottom line is, Downie is the better player in the trade.

It sucks that he got hurt in first game.

I agree with your post Tim, and am against the trade in general. Yes, Downie is a more talented player than Talbot so there is a slight upgrade. And no, Talbot is not irreplaceable even though I think they will miss him on the PK. And FWIW I think they will regret giving up Talbot's team-friendly contract.

But to say that Downie is truly a top line player is a stretch. He had one career year playing mostly with Stamkos and St. Louis on Tampa's top line and ended up with 22-24-46 points. But in '10-11 he played over 8% of the time on the same line and his stats took a big dip, only scoring 10-22-32 in 57 games.

Contrast that with Teddy Purcell in '11-12 who potted 24-41-65 points playing only 5% on the first line. Both players slid to the second line, which of course had Vinnie with Tanguay, Gagne, etc. so still fairly skilled. And let's face it - Teddy Purcell is not exactly a powerhouse winger either. Imagine Neal, Vanek or Parisi playing on the left with Stamkos and St. Louis.

Another thing to consider is that Talbot's career year 19 goals, 34 points came mostly on the 3rd and 2nd lines. Is Talbot as good of an offensive player as Downie - absolutely not. But I would suggest that Downie was more a product of playing with a couple of the best players in the league, and even then, did not have the kind of year that a more offensively-talented player would have had.

The long and short of it is - Downie is a gritty forward whose main skills are creating space for his linemates, digging out the puck from the corners, going to the net and banging in rebounds, and occasionally scoring off the rush. In other words, he is a slightly downgraded version of Hartnell or maybe upgrade of Simmonds. He is not what the Flyers need....he is what they already have.

That is why the majority of votes are against the trade.

I agree with your post Tim, and am against the trade in general. Yes, Downie is a more talented player than Talbot so there is a slight upgrade. And no, Talbot is not irreplaceable even though I think they will miss him on the PK. And FWIW I think they will regret giving up Talbot's team-friendly contract.

But to say that Downie is truly a top line player is a stretch. He had one career year playing mostly with Stamkos and St. Louis on Tampa's top line and ended up with 22-24-46 points. But in '10-11 he played over 8% of the time on the same line and his stats took a big dip, only scoring 10-22-32 in 57 games.

Contrast that with Teddy Purcell in '11-12 who potted 24-41-65 points playing only 5% on the first line. Both players slid to the second line, which of course had Vinnie with Tanguay, Gagne, etc. so still fairly skilled. And let's face it - Teddy Purcell is not exactly a powerhouse winger either. Imagine Neal, Vanek or Parisi playing on the left with Stamkos and St. Louis.

Another thing to consider is that Talbot's career year 19 goals, 34 points came mostly on the 3rd and 2nd lines. Is Talbot as good of an offensive player as Downie - absolutely not. But I would suggest that Downie was more a product of playing with a couple of the best players in the league, and even then, did not have the kind of year that a more offensively-talented player would have had.

The long and short of it is - Downie is a gritty forward whose main skills are creating space for his linemates, digging out the puck from the corners, going to the net and banging in rebounds, and occasionally scoring off the rush. In other words, he is a slightly downgraded version of Hartnell or maybe upgrade of Simmonds. He is not what the Flyers need....he is what they already have.

That is why the majority of votes are against the trade.
- TheGreat28

Honestly, the bottom line is that the Flyers got the better player. That is why it was a good trade.

Also, given that neither Simmonds or Hartnell is producing, it can be argued that they could use a guy with more offensive ability than Talbot.

It also allows them to trade Simmonds in a deal for a defenseman, if one comes along.

Another benefit, had Downie not been hurt, is that with Downie in the line-up, and Talbot gone, Adam Hall comes in and Raffl goes to the 4th line, sending the unskilled Jay Rosehill to the press box.

Getting the better, younger player in a trade shouldn be an automatic reason to vote yes. A lot of people voted no because they remember the out of control Downie that was here as a 19 year old.