Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: JVR& Schenn Revisted, Raffl, and More

JVR is outplaying Kane IMO in the Olympics. Kane looks like he is being a bit selfish. Trying to do it all on his own.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: JVR& Schenn Revisted, Raffl, and More
- bmeltzer

Thank you for the Schenn JvR roundup!

In case one does not backtrack to previous blogs:

We don't have any Finns posting here, do we? I found out from Nike that the Finnish Olympic jersey is available only in Europe. I really want one of the blue jerseys they wore yesterday. But need a helpful Finn.
- bodiva88

As JM said, though I am not finnish I would be happy to help you out. Just send me a PM and we will see if we can work something out.

Which HB poster was your muse, Bill?

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: JVR& Schenn Revisted, Raffl, and More
- bmeltzer

I believe the partying Austrians were out until 6am on Monday, the day before the Slovenia-game (which was on Tuesday). Still really unprofessional. Let's hope, if Raffle was out drinking that late, that he learned from it. Otherwise, enjoy LA

I believe the partying Austrians were out until 6am on Monday, the day before the Slovenia-game (which was on Tuesday). Still really unprofessional. Let's hope, if Raffle was out drinking that late, that he got laid. Otherwise, enjoy LA
- PhillySteen

FTFY

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: JVR& Schenn Revisted, Raffl, and More
- bmeltzer

This is all great stuff, and I totally agree with your points. What I didn't get from this blog was your thoughts on Luke Schenn moving forward. Do you think there is any chance of him developing into that 24 min/game shutdown guy that many thought he would be? Or do you think he is what he is; a 5-6th defenseman?

I'd like to introduce another segment of the fanbase. The "Orange Kool Ade" fans or the "Orange Shades" fans.

This segment is dismissive of indisputable facts except having to do with playoff appearances, ever forgiving to flyer brass decisions, and a regurgitator of everything and anything broad street bully.

I'd like to introduce another segment of the fanbase. The "Orange Kool Ade" fans or the "Orange Shades" fans.

This segment is dismissive of indisputable facts except having to do with playoff appearances, ever forgiving to flyer brass decisions, and a regurgitator of everything and anything broad street bully.
- Just5

Isn't that a huge part of being a fan ('fanatic') for most people? Disregarding facts and logic in support of your team? As long as you know you are doing it, it's ok with me.

Isn't that a huge part of being a fan ('fanatic') for most people? Disregarding facts and logic in support of your team? As long as you know you are doing it, it's ok with me.
- PhillySteen

You also have the complete opposite: the objectivist - all dem stats.

JVR is outplaying Kane IMO in the Olympics. Kane looks like he is being a bit selfish. Trying to do it all on his own.
- bird_dog_pa

I don't see selfishness as much as he's trying to be too cute with the puck. I, actually, think he could shoot more and stop trying to force difficult passes.

I'd like to introduce another segment of the fanbase. The "Orange Kool Ade" fans or the "Orange Shades" fans.

This segment is dismissive of indisputable facts except having to do with playoff appearances, ever forgiving to flyer brass decisions, and a regurgitator of everything and anything broad street bully.
- Just5

there is no need to be upset

Bill,
Great article but must disagree with one point you said:

"Thus far, that has not demonstrably been the case. However, if the trade never happened and the Flyers had kept JVR, I also don't the Flyers would be any closer to a Stanley Cup than they are right now. As such, I don't the JVR-for-Schenn trade has made all that much impact on the team's success level, either pro or con."

This is very true if you only look at it as a JVR for Luke Schenn situation but as you stated the Flyers sold low and didn't get a more mobile PMD. It was poor asset management even at the time. L. Schenn was getting small minutes and was also getting healthy scratched the year they traded for him. Even with the injuries, JVR had more value. This wasn't the Sharp trade where his was an unknown. JVR was still a 20 goal scorer on a reasonable contract coming off a great playoffs the year before. The flyers wasted their best trading chip on a third pair defenseman. It's as bad as trading the 1st rd pick for Eminger. Imagine the defenseman the flyers could get with JVR packaged with the forward or forwards they will inevitably trade this summer for defense help.

I can understand that you don't want to discuss hypotheticals, but to say the flyers wouldn't be any closer to a Stanley Cup is a hypothetical in its own right because you do not know what could of happened if JVR was traded later. This is another example of the overall lack of patience that has killed this franchise. I can see not bashing Schenn because of the trade but you can bash the patience and asset management of the flyers.

I believe most Flyers fans were satisfied with the trade at the end of last season. Schenn looked to be a burgeoning top pairing defensive defenseman. As you've said many times, defenseman growth isn't linear. There are many ups and downs. The fact that Schenn has, at least, shown the ability to be a very good shutdown defenseman makes me confident he can get there one day.

I didn't think the trade was unfair from a skill standpoint. JVR will always be the sexier player because he is a goal scorer and has tremendous skill for a man his size. I was hoping the Flyers would look to get more of a young, puck mover instead of a stay-at-home type. Or maybe they package JVR with other assets to get the big fish. Trading for Schenn seemed a bit redundant when we already had Grossmann and Coburn signed for 4 more years.

Bill,
Great article but must disagree with one point you said:



This is very true if you only look at it as a JVR for Luke Schenn situation but as you stated the Flyers sold low and didn't get a more mobile PMD. It was poor asset management even at the time. L. Schenn was getting small minutes and was also getting healthy scratched the year they traded for him. Even with the injuries, JVR had more value. This wasn't the Sharp trade where his was an unknown. JVR was still a 20 goal scorer on a reasonable contract coming off a great playoffs the year before. The flyers wasted their best trading chip on a third pair defenseman. It's as bad as trading the 1st rd pick for Eminger. Imagine the defenseman the flyers could get with JVR packaged with the forward or forwards they will inevitably trade this summer for defense help.

I can understand that you don't want to discuss hypotheticals, but to say the flyers wouldn't be any closer to a Stanley Cup is a hypothetical in its own right because you do not know what could of happened if JVR was traded later. This is another example of the overall lack of patience that has killed this franchise. I can see not bashing Schenn because of the trade but you can bash the patience and asset management of the flyers.
- psuhockey

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think teams were willing to give away top flight defenseman for JVR. Im sure he was part of the package to get Weber during negotiations.

I think Homer was put in a position where he felt he had to make a move to get another defenseman. He wanted to go young and he knew Burke would trade Schenn. I didn't like the trade and I still don't, but I don't think it's going to end up as lopsided as most think.

Schenn has shown the ability to be a very good player. If he can find consistency, it will be a fair trade. Guys who can prevent goals are just as important as guys who score goals.

Edit: The Eminger trade was so much worse. They traded a first round pick for a 7th defenseman.

Another thing to consider regarding this trade is there is a ton of pressure playing in Philadelphia. Some players just aren't cut out for it.

I don't see selfishness as much as he's trying to be too cute with the puck. I, actually, think he could shoot more and stop trying to force difficult passes.
- PhillySportsGuy

He started out trying to do too much himself (carrying the puck through major traffic), but he's gotten better as the games have passed.

Another thing to consider regarding this trade is there is a ton of pressure playing in Philadelphia. Some players just aren't cut out for it.
- PLindbergh31

There was more pressure on LSchenn in Toronto than there is here.

Another thing to consider regarding this trade is there is a ton of pressure playing in Philadelphia. Some players just aren't cut out for it.
- PLindbergh31

Is this sarcasm? Do you not think there's pressure in Toronto?

Is this sarcasm? Do you not think there's pressure in Toronto?
- GOLEAFS71

No. Hockey really isn't relevant in Toronto. They're all curling fans

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think teams were willing to give away top flight defenseman for JVR. Im sure he was part of the package to get Weber during negotiations.
- PhillySportsGuy

JVR was traded the last day of the draft. The Weber offersheet occurred after. JVR was unavailable to trade at that point.

Schenn has shown the ability to be a very good player. If he can find consistency, it will be a fair trade.

Yes he is 24 but this is his 6th year in the league. How much more consistency do you expect him to develop. Last year when he played well was a strike-shortened half a year where he was paired with Timonen to begin with and than later with AHL defenseman after the Flyers were well out of the playoffs. The full season before and this season he was and is a low minutes 3rd pair defenseman that has been healthy scratched. I am not so sure using last year as a barometer of future success is that great of an idea.

No. Hockey really isn't relevant in Toronto. They're all curling fans
- PhillySportsGuy

JVR was traded the last day of the draft. The Weber offersheet occurred after. JVR was unavailable to trade at that point.



Yes he is 24 but this is his 6th year in the league. How much more consistency do you expect him to develop. Last year when he played well was a strike-shortened half a year where he was paired with Timonen to begin with and than later with AHL defenseman after the Flyers were well out of the playoffs. The full season before and this season he was and is a low minutes 3rd pair defenseman that has been healthy scratched. I am not so sure using last year as a barometer of future success is that great of an idea.
- psuhockey

I was referring to negotiations to acquire Weber. I'm sure the Flyers had been kicking the tires on Weber for a while and JVR was probably involved in those trade proposals.

It can take defenseman much longer to develop. Especially, defensive defenseman.

I'm not saying Schenn is going to be a top pairing guy. I just don't think we've seen the best of Schenn yet.

Another thing to consider regarding this trade is there is a ton of pressure playing in Philadelphia. Some players just aren't cut out for it.
- PLindbergh31

and there isnt in Toronto?