Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Schenn, Hartnell/Umberger, Forsberg and Lindros

Is Schenn not the perfect #2 center to play behind Giroux?

Is the problem about finding a space for LeCavalier. The better teams make themselves strong down the middle. So, if the Flyers go with Giroux, Schenn, Couturier and LaCavalier it looks very good to me.

Is Schenn not the perfect #2 center to play behind Giroux?

Is the problem about finding a space for LeCavalier. The better teams make themselves strong down the middle. So, if the Flyers go with Giroux, Schenn, Couturier and LaCavalier it looks very good to me.
- spatso

Thus far, Schenn has been inconsistent both at center and wing. At center, he's struggled a lot on faceoffs and still has a way to go defensively at the NHL level. However, his stretches of success thus far in his career have generally come a little more frequently while playing center than LW (but has also had flashes of success at wing). Really, he has to truly take off for an extended period of time at either position.

i think capanomics and fitting in the system are the reason why VL is moved.

In the brave new Hexy world as poker faced as he is, you cant have what another poster called a 10 million dollar 4th line.

Unless VL is stronger on his skates this season with a healed back there is no way he fits in. Best case scenario could be is that he is not healed and retires. Under 35 contract. He already got his payday with the buyout

While Bill McCreary was a fine referee, it seems to me that Kerry Fraser's all time NHL record career numbers as a referee should have put him in first and as a no brainer. However Kerry is not a "favorite" of Colin Campbell because he was a strong NHLOA man while Bill is now an NHL supervisor. When I asked Kerry in April what he thought his chances were, he told me that he figured McCreary would get in long before him which has proved to be true. I just hope that now that this has happened already the committee will do the right thing and elect Kerry next year. He certainly deserves it.

Welp, you do have to hand it to Hextall. He certainly follows through on what he says.

He implied to Hartnell he didn't fit anymore and Hartnell was gone.

He said re-signing BSchenn was a priority, and BSchenn is signed.

As for Vinny, I think there are a couple of scenarios that could play out:

1.) Vinny comes back strong after an injury filled season.
2.) We end up with a deal similar to the one just made that sent Hartnell away, where we take back an awful contract but attempt to spackle over some perceived need.

I think the best we can hope for at this point is for some injury luck for both RJ and Vinny. They both looked like players with no tread on the tires by the end of the season. Let's hope they can turn back the clock a bit.

Welp, you do have to hand it to Hextall. He certainly follows through on what he says.

He implied to Hartnell he didn't fit anymore and Hartnell was gone.

He said re-signing BSchenn was a priority, and BSchenn is signed.

As for Vinny, I think there are a couple of scenarios that could play out:

1.) Vinny comes back strong after an injury filled season.
2.) We end up with a deal similar to the one just made that sent Hartnell away, where we take back an awful contract but attempt to spackle over some perceived need.

I think the best we can hope for at this point is for some injury luck for both RJ and Vinny. They both looked like players with no tread on the tires by the end of the season. Let's hope they can turn back the clock a bit.
- johndewar

Hextall also said that he expects VL right now to be a Flyer, right now.

Hopefully 15 minutes from now, which will not be right now any longer, VL will not be a Flyer right now.. err.. right then. Whatever. Damn you, Hexy and your Jedi mind tricks.

The ONLY thing I didn't like about the trade, Flyers got softer to play against with Umberger over Hartnell.

The ONLY thing I didn't like about the trade, Flyers got softer to play against with Umberger over Hartnell.
- twpguy

in the 7 game playoff series, I can't honestly say I was ever worried about Hartnell offensively even one time, and the physical player who used to be a little fearsome wasn't even a thought.

in the 7 game playoff series, I can't honestly say I was ever worried about Hartnell offensively even one time, and the physical player who used to be a little fearsome wasn't even a thought.
- jimbro83

He really had a bad series. Hartnell was an up and down player, but I think what made him really effective started to disappear a bit. I wouldn't be surprised at all that he comes back next year and kills it, using the trade as a kick start.

Just my opinion but I think you see Hextall wanting a team that fits to the system nsteadof trying to make the player fit. The Flyers always tried to get better even if it was making a guy try to play a system he just wasn't meant for. No more round peg, square hole.

For the Trade I thjink Umberger gives more flexibility to the lineup and fits the new structured system. Just look at LA. A commitment to the system and team defense.

As for Vinny, I still think he is moved. I would take the Vinny for Del Zotto deal in a heart beat. I actually thought that always made sense if it happened. We will just have to wait and see but I think we are seeing a little change in culture. Maybe not get the best player but the best player for the system.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Schenn, Hartnell/Umberger, Forsberg and Lindros
- bmeltzer

Bill, Hextall seems to value size down the middle. Do you think that gives VL the edge if he stays? Schenn seems a bit undersized, though he can hold his own. Just trying to figure out Hextall's vision.

Just my opinion but I think you see Hextall wanting a team that fits to the system nsteadof trying to make the player fit. The Flyers always tried to get better even if it was making a guy try to play a system he just wasn't meant for. No more round peg, square hole.

For the Trade I thjink Umberger gives more flexibility to the lineup and fits the new structured system. Just look at LA. A commitment to the system and team defense.

As for Vinny, I still think he is moved. I would take the Vinny for Del Zotto deal in a heart beat. I actually thought that always made sense if it happened. We will just have to wait and see but I think we are seeing a little change in culture. Maybe not get the best player but the best player for the system.
- J35Bacher

The one thing I'm excited about, is that it seems that Hextall really has a plan and is rolling it out in full. Whether or not it's a good one remains to be seen, but he does seem like he knows what he wants to do.

Hextall also said that he expects VL right now to be a Flyer, right now.

Hopefully 15 minutes from now, which will not be right now any longer, VL will not be a Flyer right now.. err.. right then. Whatever. Damn you, Hexy and your Jedi mind tricks.
- Doc_Sarcasm

To be honest, I wouldn't be that upset to see him stay and given the right position and linemates for an extended period. I really don't think what we saw last year is indicative of the player that VL is now. While I don't expect him to blow anyone away anymore, I think he can and will be better than last year. Still don't think he's a great fit for Berube's system, but if he stays I believe he will be better than what we saw last year.

I have no real feel as to who, but doesn't it feel like one of the contracts has to go, if Vinny doesn't?

Whether it's Grossmann or Luke Schenn or MacDonald, I almost have to believe that somebody's contract has to get moved if Vinny is to stay.

I have no real feel as to who, but doesn't it feel like one of the contracts has to go, if Vinny doesn't?

Whether it's Grossmann or Luke Schenn or MacDonald, I almost have to believe that somebody's contract has to get moved if Vinny is to stay.
- AllInForFlyers

Reading between the lines, I don't think Hextall likes MacDonald's deal. I think there will be another big shoe to drop on the defense one way or the other.

I wonder how Hextall will shape the 4th line. Looking around the league in the playoffs, there were some pretty effective 4th lines out there.

The ONLY thing I didn't like about the trade, Flyers got softer to play against with Umberger over Hartnell.
- twpguy

I guess that is a "wait and see"...if clearing that spot allows Laughton to play regular minutes then I think the "truculence factor" is a wash. Laughton can get chippy if it is called for as well.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Schenn, Hartnell/Umberger, Forsberg and Lindros
- bmeltzer

I think it really boils down to what Hextall wants on his team. He obviously values versatility and skating as well as two way play.

Scott Hartnell is a good NHL player. But in Philly he was basically limited to a scoring line role. He wasn't able to slide up and down the line up or work on the PK effectively because he's not a good skater. He lacked discipline in his game, both in playing within a structure and in terms of taking penalties.

Still, he was 20-25 goals in the bank, a good effective pest and had good chemistry with Giroux.

Now, the Flyers do get some cap benefits-especially in term-but this wasn't primarily a salary dump. They identified Umberger as a guy that better fit the style they want to play.

I get the angst. I don't particularly like the trade myself. I don't hate it, though, I see it as a lateral move, more than anything.

Reading between the lines, I don't think Hextall likes MacDonald's deal. I think there will be another big shoe to drop on the defense one way or the other.
- funmaster18

I think MacDonald is good to stay. It wasn't like Hextall wasn't here when that deal got done. i am sure he had some input. If I had to guess maybe it would be either Grossmann or Schenn.

If they could the deal with Nashville and get back Del Zotto i think it would give the D a solid possible young offensive dman. Your hope would be he would finally play to his potential. He had some good showings in NY before he started to struggle

I guess that is a "wait and see"...if clearing that spot allows Laughton to play regular minutes then I think the "truculence factor" is a wash. Laughton can get chippy if it is called for as well.
- juiced

He's got the look down, anyway:

Reading between the lines, I don't think Hextall likes MacDonald's deal. I think there will be another big shoe to drop on the defense one way or the other.
- funmaster18

That was always what baffled me about MacDonald's deal; it's simply not a small deal for a team with as little wiggle room as the Flyers have.

Doesn't mean they can't ice a roster, because they certainly can. But damn, it's snug already now that Brayden Schenn is signed.

I think MacDonald is good to stay. It wasn't like Hextall wasn't here when that deal got done. i am sure he had some input. If I had to guess maybe it would be either Grossmann or Schenn.

If they could the deal with Nashville and get back Del Zotto i think it would give the D a solid possible young offensive dman. Your hope would be he would finally play to his potential. He had some good showings in NY before he started to struggle
- J35Bacher

I'm not sure how much input he had. Holmgren was making the decisions. I just think it's risky giving a guy 5 million for as many years as he did on such a small sample size on the team. I liked what I saw for a 4-5 d-man, but there were some comments (i'd have to find them) that I thought hinted at Hextall not liking the deal.

I think it really boils down to what Hextall wants on his team. He obviously values versatility and skating as well as two way play.

Scott Hartnell is a good NHL player. But in Philly he was basically limited to a scoring line role. He wasn't able to slide up and down the line up or work on the PK effectively because he's not a good skater. He lacked discipline in his game, both in playing within a structure and in terms of taking penalties.

Still, he was 20-25 goals in the bank, a good effective pest and had good chemistry with Giroux.

Now, the Flyers do get some cap benefits-especially in term-but this wasn't primarily a salary dump. They identified Umberger as a guy that better fit the style they want to play.

I get the angst. I don't particularly like the trade myself. I don't hate it, though, I see it as a lateral move, more than anything.
- Jsaquella

I agree with that. Yesterday I think people just went off emotion. When you look at the deal closly and objectivly you can see his thinking. And I go back to LA. The commitment to team d and the system is what makes them so tough to play against. They might not score a ton but they always seem to play good d. Also all there guys seems to be able to do multiple things not just one skill set.

That was always what baffled me about MacDonald's deal; it's simply not a small deal for a team with as little wiggle room as the Flyers have.

Doesn't mean they can't ice a roster, because they certainly can. But damn, it's snug already now that Brayden Schenn is signed.
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah, such a long term for an OK defenseman. Not sure what Homer was thinking there, expecially with younger guys coming up soon. Unless he was planning to unload someone else this offseason?