Todd Cordell: Blue Jackets Re-Sign Curtis McElhinney + Another Note on Hartnell/Umberger

Better player offensively. Not disputing that.

Enjoy those extra 40 minor penalties, though -- not 40 minutes in penalties.

Forty extra minors...trips. Holds. Hooks.

When the whistle blows and you have the puck in the offensive zone...well, it's something to see.

As much as i appreciate and value the advanced statistics in evaulating the game and players, the idea that Hartnell did not benefit from playing with Giroux is outlandish. Giroux is a nominee for the Hart trophy, a proven offensive force and an all around super star. Its simple for each side of this trade to justify it being a win for their team, but to say that Hartnell did not benefit from playing with G rather G benefited from playing with Scotty is absurd.

Just heard Hartnell interviewed by Jason York on Ottawa radio. I think Columbus got themselves a player who is a great fit. Not surprised Flyers made him available. Shocked they took Umberger back on a one for one deal.

Everyone is bashing Umberger, why? In his career he is a pretty consistant 20+ goal scorer just like Harts. Umberger just didnt fit in with the Jackets anymore, just like Harts with Philly. Umberger is faster and smarter and better defensively. Just what the Flyers need. He also has 2 less years on his contract. I think he will be a good fit and it was the only way we could dump that horrible contract Holmgren signed a washed up Hartnell to.

Hartnell is a good complimentary player ... but those stats don't really tell the story. His replacement on the top line was often Raffl, who is not ready to play a top line role in the NHL (and likely never will be). Additionally, Giroux, in particular, was often on the ice without Hartnell late in games defending leads.

The second line requires additional discussion ... one of the reasons Schenn and co. struggled was because Lecavalier was awful. Hartnell replaced him, and the line performed better.

Did Hartnell contribute to the top line? Yes. He brings some defensive play that Giroux and Voracek are a bit weak in, and can muck it up along the wall and get to the front of the net willingly. That being said, the w/ and w/out statistics are missing a LOT of contextual evidence that is necessary to understand when discussing Hartnell's game and his role on the team.

As much as i appreciate and value the advanced statistics in evaulating the game and players, the idea that Hartnell did not benefit from playing with Giroux is outlandish. Giroux is a nominee for the Hart trophy, a proven offensive force and an all around super star. Its simple for each side of this trade to justify it being a win for their team, but to say that Hartnell did not benefit from playing with G rather G benefited from playing with Scotty is absurd.
- did109

Mis-worded something I wrote that is fixed now. It should have said Giroux also benefited from Hartnell and that it wasn't just a one-way street.

Obviously Hartnell benefited from playing with G.

Better player offensively. Not disputing that.

Enjoy those extra 40 minor penalties, though -- not 40 minutes in penalties.

Forty extra minors...trips. Holds. Hooks.

When the whistle blows and you have the puck in the offensive zone...well, it's something to see.
- AllInForFlyers

you sound like someone in denial.

I think you are building a really good team in Columbus. The roster is getting harder to play against with a nice mix of youth and veterans. Reminds me a little of the Kings.

I hope you enjoyed watching Rick Nash 'not' win a Cup as much as I did!

I'd find this trade amusing except Columbus is now in the division, so it doesn't really matter much.

I think you are building a really good team in Columbus. The roster is getting harder to play against with a nice mix of youth and veterans. Reminds me a little of the Kings.

I hope you enjoyed watching Rick Nash 'not' win a Cup as much as I did!
- maaddmike

If he actually contributed I wouldn't of minded, but because he did absolutely nothing then yeah it felt right.

umberger played in CLB and hartnell played in Philly 2 completely different teams
i bet if umberger was on a good team all those years he'd have more goals and points as well

umberger played in CLB and hartnell played in Philly 2 completely different teams
i bet if umberger was on a good team all those years he'd have more goals and points as well
- 2Real

Well he might play with Johanson and Jenner so he's in good company.

Everyone is bashing Umberger, why? In his career he is a pretty consistant 20+ goal scorer just like Harts. Umberger just didnt fit in with the Jackets anymore, just like Harts with Philly. Umberger is faster and smarter and better defensively. Just what the Flyers need. He also has 2 less years on his contract. I think he will be a good fit and it was the only way we could dump that horrible contract Holmgren signed a washed up Hartnell to.
- GOA88

Have you watched Umberger at all since the lockout? I keep seeing people describe RJ as fast and a good skater, couldn't be farther from the truth. He looks like he's skating in quicksand.

Hartnell may be on the decline, but he's a legit NHL player. One month into the season Philly fans are going to be wondering if RJ is an NHL caliber player.

you sound like someone in denial.
- Alexzanki

Nope. Someone who has watched Hartnell for seven years..

Trade's done. No need for denial. But those 100-plus minutes of PIMs Hartnell gets?

Again, just wait and see how he gets them.

Mis-worded something I wrote that is fixed now. It should have said Giroux also benefited from Hartnell and that it wasn't just a one-way street.

Obviously Hartnell benefited from playing with G.
- Todd.Cordell

Fair enough...funny how one word can change the whole dynamic of an article. I gladly accept this as a strong viewpoint now! lol

Have you watched Umberger at all since the lockout? I keep seeing people describe RJ as fast and a good skater, couldn't be farther from the truth. He looks like he's skating in quicksand.

Hartnell may be on the decline, but he's a legit NHL player. One month into the season Philly fans are going to be wondering if RJ is an NHL caliber player.
- Jimmys7

Hartnell wont even be able to keep up with the slowest player from the Jackets last seaon. Then you will see what slow is. Hartnell's numbers were inflated by star talent that played around him. He played with Briere, Carter & Giroux and top PP minutes. He is on the steady decline. If he wasnt, we would never have traded him. We traded Mike Richards and look at him. 4th line center on the Kings.

Oh, Hartnell is the better player, that's for sure. It's not by leaps and bounds, but he is.

As for wanting to pay him at 36 and 37? That's the key. Nobody , and I mean nobody, in their right mind wants to do that. Hell, Lecavalier got a 5 year deal at 32 and everyone knew it was foolish. Well, Columbus has a quickly declining 32 year old Hartnell with more injuries, a worse contract than Lecavalier, and is no longer paired with a Hart candidate.

Enjoy.

Well, enjoy the next two years. That's fair. In about 3 if get my doc to write a script for Klonopin.

I've seen my team make bad signing after bad signing. I'm glad the new guy is trying to dump a few even if it won't take effect for 3 more years.

Columbus will be more fun to watch next season. The flyers will have some more room to play with in a few seasons. Win/win.

Have you watched Umberger at all since the lockout? I keep seeing people describe RJ as fast and a good skater, couldn't be farther from the truth. He looks like he's skating in quicksand.

Hartnell may be on the decline, but he's a legit NHL player. One month into the season Philly fans are going to be wondering if RJ is an NHL caliber player.
- Jimmys7

Ugh.

We DON'T CARE about Umberger. The cookie is getting rid of Hartnell at 36 and 37 allowing the team to rebuild. Umberger, bag of pucks, whatever. It's the cap space we give a poop about.

yay umberger http://youtu.be/qMDKXzfbrYE

Oh, Hartnell is the better player, that's for sure. It's not by leaps and bounds, but he is.

As for wanting to pay him at 36 and 37? That's the key. Nobody , and I mean nobody, in their right mind wants to do that. Hell, Lecavalier got a 5 year deal at 32 and everyone knew it was foolish. Well, Columbus has a quickly declining 32 year old Hartnell with more injuries, a worse contract than Lecavalier, and is no longer paired with a Hart candidate.

Enjoy.

Well, enjoy the next two years. That's fair. In about 3 if get my doc to write a script for Klonopin.

I've seen my team make bad signing after bad signing. I'm glad the new guy is trying to dump a few even if it won't take effect for 3 more years.

Columbus will be more fun to watch next season. The flyers will have some more room to play with in a few seasons. Win/win.
- Hesh_

he will only be earning 4.5 at 36 and 3 mil at 37 in salary , as for cap space it's not an issue given they are not a cap team (and the cap will be at something like 80 mil). As for the whole ''he will be finished at 36 '' that will be a debate to have at that point in time. Really it's funny seeing flyer fans going out in force trying to make this look like a good deal for them.

History shows Hartnell will be a King at trade deadline.

Think CLB won this trade. Hartnell is a solid player and less irritable lately.

Not big on your back-up goalie after his time in Tampa but it likely helps to play with a better defence.

You guys will like Hartnell. He is gritty, a good team mate, and great in the community. Feed him one timers in the left slot and he is almost automatic when he gets on one of his streaks.

What you will HATE, and why I really think he wore out his welcome with Berube, is the ENDLESS parade to the penalty box for stupid lazy penalties. Hooks, holds, trips, crosschecks, slashes...you name it. And many in the offensive zone. He gets under players skin, but they can also get under his.

He plays a hard game, but a very undisciplined game that drove Flyers fans joyful and nuts all at the same time.

he will only be earning 4.5 at 36 and 3 mil at 37 in salary , as for cap space it's not an issue given they are not a cap team (and the cap will be at something like 80 mil). As for the whole ''he will be finished at 36 '' that will be a debate to have at that point in time. Really it's funny seeing flyer fans going out in force trying to make this look like a good deal for them.
- Alexzanki

If your team continues to improve then cap space will indeed be an issue. Also, Hartnell will be a shadow of his former self during the last couple years of his term.

Contrary to what I have read on this site Umberger is considerably faster than Hartnell, a more productive scorer in the playoffs and is a better fit for the flyers who are trying to get faster up front. Umberger will kill penalties in the orange and black and will round out a nice third line for them. This is a no brainer for the flyers.

I'm not saying Hartnell will not produce next year or even the year after, but that contract will be a noose (or at least would have been for the flyers). He will struggle to keep up with the play in a few years as well.

Also, if you are going to mention Umberger being scratched you have to mention his injuries.

Bottom line is neather player had tremendous trade value and miraculously Hartnell agreed to play in Columbus, so this really is a no brainer.