Jared Crozier: Sens Escape From New York With A Loser Point; RIP Jean Beliveau

As much as this sucks to say - naming Bryan Murray as GM is the beginning of this era of instability and bad teams. He took a Stanley Cup finalist and turned it into this gong show

This is the worst the Senators Organization has been since 1994

I'm very surprised with how poor Ottawa has been this year.

I'm very surprised with how poor Ottawa has been this year.
- walshyleafsfan

y

y
- Jurco_28

I bought into all the hype.

Ryan has been a non factor. Karlsson seems to be regressing (obviously hard keeping up his previous pace). Don't see much from Macca and Turris (not first line rate). Not sure if Zibenajad is playing?

The only guys that look like they are playing well are Hoffman, Anderson and maybe Lazar

I bought into all the hype.

Ryan has been a non factor. Karlsson seems to be regressing (obviously hard keeping up his previous pace). Don't see much from Macca and Turris (not first line rate). Not sure if Zibenajad is playing?

The only guys that look like they are playing well are Hoffman, Anderson and maybe Lazar
- walshyleafsfan

Murray throwing Maclean under the bus at the end of the season saying the players want a nice coach - this totally undermined Maclean and you see it in guys like Zach Smith - Zach Smith thinks he's a 40 point player and is playing like he is a point getter - he sulked when he played LW, he sulks when he doesn't get top wingers to play with, the payers are running the show and it's a joke. If they don't get what they want they sulk

As much as this sucks to say - naming Bryan Murray as GM is the beginning of this era of instability and bad teams. He took a Stanley Cup finalist and turned it into this gong show

This is the worst the Senators Organization has been since 1994
- tuna99

Thanks Tuna, you're right... the turning point wasn't the lockout, missing a season of Chara, Redden, Havlat, Hossa, Spezza, Fisher and Alferdsson at/near their prime. It was definitely BM's fault he was only able to stabilize the ship for a Cup run rather than fix everything that needed fixing.

Thanks Tuna, you're right... the turning point wasn't the lockout, missing a season of Chara, Redden, Havlat, Hossa, Spezza, Fisher and Alferdsson at/near their prime. It was definitely BM's fault he was only able to stabilize the ship for a Cup run rather than fix everything that needed fixing.
- KarlKarlsson

now see .... the best thing to do with tuna is not respond ....

I only caught the 3rd period, but aside from what I hear was the typical second period collapse I think the boys did OK last night.

They got a point from one of the best teams in the east, so let's consider that a positive, for after all it is.

Anytime a team on the outside looking in can get a point from a team near the top of the standings, it can only be looked at in a positive light.

Thanks Tuna, you're right... the turning point wasn't the lockout, missing a season of Chara, Redden, Havlat, Hossa, Spezza, Fisher and Alferdsson at/near their prime. It was definitely BM's fault he was only able to stabilize the ship for a Cup run rather than fix everything that needed fixing.
- KarlKarlsson

Bryan Murray was brought in as a coach to one of the best teams in hockey - this is like today being named a coach of the Tampa Bay Lighting and becoming GM then having Stamkos, Callahan and Hedman all ask to be traded and turning them into a total gong show with multiple coaches (Clouston doesn't even have a coaching job now that's how bad that hire was) and being left with a slow team with a low compete level.

If it wasn't for Anderson Ottawa would be the worst team in the NHL - not only on the ice but off it with Alfie, Spezza, Heatley, Murray tried to run Redden out of town when he refuse to wave his NTC, he traded away heart and soul players when he let Fisher and Kelly go

And the Ryan trade looks worse every day - we are loaded with bad contracts and slow players, the fans are slamming the coach for the line juggling but he has 2 extra forwards and Dman to get into games.

All in all this is years of bad management we are seeing on the ice right now - not a bad summer in FA - this is years of Murray making flub after flub

I don't agree that Karlsson looks tired, I think the coaches are trying to dial back his rushes (which is too bad because his one or two rushes a game are the most exciting part these days). Previous years Karlsson was good for one of those a shift. I think Mac wants to have him more accountable to be back to limit his mistakes. Maybe to improve his game down the road, maybe to limit his mistakes as to not turn the fickle sens fan against another captain? Who knows..
As for our poor play.. I don't mind loosing as long as the young guys look good but seeing poor play from Karlsson, ZB, Chiasson, Turris, Cowen etc.. Isn't fun to watch.

As much as this sucks to say - naming Bryan Murray as GM is the beginning of this era of instability and bad teams. He took a Stanley Cup finalist and turned it into this gong show

This is the worst the Senators Organization has been since 1994
- tuna99

You can't blame Murray entirely...

In 09-10 the Sens spent $56.4M on players on a cap of $56.8 (99.3% of cap)
10-11 Sens - $56.3M Cap - $59.4M (94.8%)
11-12 Sens - $51.6M Cap - $64.3M (80.2%)
12-13 Sens - $53.8M Cap - $70.2M (pro-rated/lockout) (76.6%)
13-14 Sens - $54.0M Cap - $64.3M (84.0%)
14-15 Sens - $55.8M Cap - $69.0M (80.9%)

Purse-strings matter. Murray can only abide by the budget and organizational philosophy that he is given. It is Melnyks choice to pull back because they didn't win when he spent to the cap, but I have shown in the past that although spending doesn't guarantee you can win, not spending pretty much guarantees that you can't.

All in all this is years of bad management we are seeing on the ice right now - not a bad summer in FA - this is years of Murray making flub after flub
- tuna99

What do you mean?

all this team needs is a first line centre and a first line winger... and a 2nd line winger

...and a first line defenceman

....and a second line defenceman

we've pretty much got everything else covered

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling, said Chicken Little."

This team is playing the way everyone thought they would play. Everybody needs to step back and realize just how good Tampa, Florida and the Islanders have become. The Sens are 4 points out of a playoff spot. Close to where they will likely end the season.

Never been a fan of the Bobby Ryan trade or signing. Do like his character and he is a good player. He does not hurt the team. But his age is entirely out of alignment with the young guys who will take this team to the next level.

Best players last night were Hoffman, Lazar and Stone.

I don't agree that Karlsson looks tired, I think the coaches are trying to dial back his rushes (which is too bad because his one or two rushes a game are the most exciting part these days). Previous years Karlsson was good for one of those a shift. I think Mac wants to have him more accountable to be back to limit his mistakes. Maybe to improve his game down the road, maybe to limit his mistakes as to not turn the fickle sens fan against another captain? Who knows..
As for our poor play.. I don't mind loosing as long as the young guys look good but seeing poor play from Karlsson, ZB, Chiasson, Turris, Cowen etc.. Isn't fun to watch.
- KarlOrBust

I disagree that the coaches are reigning him on...the only thing keeping the fans from turning on him was his exciting rushes, 3 or 4 per game, where he would gain the zone with ease and set a play up. Those are fewer and farther in between now, and the defensive zone hasn't been any better. He tries the rush, but all too often gets stopped in the neutral zone because he doesn't have the extra gear, possibly because he is playing so many minutes, and tougher minutes. Obviously it could also be the players he is on the ice with, and that is also a factor, but his top end speed doesn't seem to be there like it was even last year, after the return from injury. That made opposing players back off, and gave him and his teammates more room to move. If that fear isn't there, teams can stand him up in the neutral zone and snuff the rush before it really begins.

You can't blame Murray entirely...

In 09-10 the Sens spent $56.4M on players on a cap of $56.8 (99.3% of cap)
10-11 Sens - $56.3M Cap - $59.4M (94.8%)
11-12 Sens - $51.6M Cap - $64.3M (80.2%)
12-13 Sens - $53.8M Cap - $70.2M (pro-rated/lockout) (76.6%)
13-14 Sens - $54.0M Cap - $64.3M (84.0%)
14-15 Sens - $55.8M Cap - $69.0M (80.9%)

Purse-strings matter. Murray can only abide by the budget and organizational philosophy that he is given. It is Melnyks choice to pull back because they didn't win when he spent to the cap, but I have shown in the past that although spending doesn't guarantee you can win, not spending pretty much guarantees that you can't.
- JaredCrozier

Look at Murray's FA's - Kovalev, Gonchar, Legwand, Ruutu, Jason Smith (all old slow players) - if you were the owner would you let him spend on Free Agency?

Not only that but you had players like Vermette, Kelly, Bishop, Fisher to sign and you let them go.

I don't need to argue this - look at the team on ice.

You have lame duck Coach because Murray didn't back him last year and said the players want a fuzzier/warmer coach and want to be listened to - this is after a year were our compete level was close to zero.

You can't blame Murray entirely...

In 09-10 the Sens spent $56.4M on players on a cap of $56.8 (99.3% of cap)
10-11 Sens - $56.3M Cap - $59.4M (94.8%)
11-12 Sens - $51.6M Cap - $64.3M (80.2%)
12-13 Sens - $53.8M Cap - $70.2M (pro-rated/lockout) (76.6%)
13-14 Sens - $54.0M Cap - $64.3M (84.0%)
14-15 Sens - $55.8M Cap - $69.0M (80.9%)

Purse-strings matter. Murray can only abide by the budget and organizational philosophy that he is given. It is Melnyks choice to pull back because they didn't win when he spent to the cap, but I have shown in the past that although spending doesn't guarantee you can win, not spending pretty much guarantees that you can't.
- JaredCrozier

Be careful. They have already committed $56m to 18 players next year. This does not include some signings like Methot, Chiasson, Stone and Zibanejad that will cost more.

I have been critical of Melnyk on spending. But it appears they are a cap team next year with the same roster of today. Something has changed. I believe somebody has given Melnyk money (even though he denies it). I also expect we are going to see a huge restructuring of the team including casino money come into play.

Look at Murray's FA's - Kovalev, Gonchar, Legwand, Ruutu, Jason Smith (all old slow players) - if you were the owner would you let him spend on Free Agency?

Not only that but you had players like Vermette, Kelly, Bishop, Fisher to sign and you let them go.

I don't need to argue this - look at the team on ice.

You have lame duck Coach because Murray didn't back him last year and said the players want a fuzzier/warmer coach and want to be listened to - this is after a year were our compete level was close to zero.
- tuna99

Context matters

Just about everyone agreed with the decisions to move kelly and Fisher. It was the start of the "rebuild" The team got younger, and the return for both was good. Lets not ignore the fact that fisher had a wife who he wanted to be close to.

One of the goalies had to go, Bishop made the most sense on paper. Now the return was garbage, i'd agree.

Vermette, they got back Leclair, and the pick that got Lehner.

Context matters

Just about everyone agreed with the decisions to move kelly and Fisher. It was the start of the "rebuild" The team got younger, and the return for both was good. Lets not ignore the fact that fisher had a wife who he wanted to be close to.

One of the goalies had to go, Bishop made the most sense on paper. Now the return was garbage, i'd agree.

Vermette, they got back Leclair, and the pick that got Lehner.
- david22

The point is you trade away heart and soul players who compete every night and have been brought through the organization and you replace them with Alex Kovalev?

This team never should have gotten to the point where it needed to trade away it's young core that was proven - but they had to because for some reason when Murray took over the compete level of this team took a complete nose dive and it has never been the same since.

Explain the Alfie thing to me? That alone should of gotten Murray fired

Be careful. They have already committed $56m to 18 players next year. This does not include some signings like Methot, Chiasson, Stone and Zibanejad that will cost more.

I have been critical of Melnyk on spending. But it appears they are a cap team next year with the same roster of today. Something has changed. I believe somebody has given Melnyk money (even though he denies it). I also expect we are going to see a huge restructuring of the team including casino money come into play.
- spatso

Nobody has given Melnyk money. If he has taken on a partner, even a silent one, it would have to be approved by the Board of Governors I believe.

And yes, they are spending money now going forward, but it is on the core of the team and the youth movement is in progress. Like I said yesterday, they never really hit rock bottom, to get the prime prospects and they are making do with what they have.
The kids are still making mistakes like kids will. But not spending to bring in quality veterans has forced the team to bring up a lot of players before they really should be.
There is a reason Detroit makes the playoffs every year....they don't rush their young talent, and the players entering the system pay their dues in the minors so they are ready when they come up.
Really, Stone, Lazar, Ceci, Cowen and Wiercioch all could have used some more AHL seasoning (obviously Lazar junior), but because of the purges that went before, the depth is just getting rebuilt now and those players were rushed.

Bryan Murray was brought in as a coach to one of the best teams in hockey - this is like today being named a coach of the Tampa Bay Lighting and becoming GM then having Stamkos, Callahan and Hedman all ask to be traded and turning them into a total gong show with multiple coaches (Clouston doesn't even have a coaching job now that's how bad that hire was) and being left with a slow team with a low compete level.

If it wasn't for Anderson Ottawa would be the worst team in the NHL - not only on the ice but off it with Alfie, Spezza, Heatley, Murray tried to run Redden out of town when he refuse to wave his NTC, he traded away heart and soul players when he let Fisher and Kelly go

And the Ryan trade looks worse every day - we are loaded with bad contracts and slow players, the fans are slamming the coach for the line juggling but he has 2 extra forwards and Dman to get into games.

All in all this is years of bad management we are seeing on the ice right now - not a bad summer in FA - this is years of Murray making flub after flub
- tuna99

it's not like being named the GM of tampa.

the lightning have great depth at every position, a great farm system, and an owner who is willing to spend

murray took over a team that relied almost entirely on one line, had almost no depth at any position, had mostly aging players with no realy "youth" on the team, had probably the worst farm system in the NHL, and an owner who likes to meddle in hockey decisons (coaching hires, FA signings, etc) and has become less and less willing to spend money.

it's not like being named the GM of tampa.

the lightning have great depth at every position, a great farm system, and an owner who is willing to spend

murray took over a team that relied almost entirely on one line, had almost no depth at any position, had mostly aging players with no realy "youth" on the team, had probably the worst farm system in the NHL, and an owner who likes to meddle in hockey decisons (coaching hires, FA signings, etc) and has become less and less willing to spend money.
- sensarmy_11

so explain to me how this team's compete level took a huge noise dive once Bryan Murray took over as GM?

And Murray did spend to cap the first few years he was GM, we added salary, but we still sucked - so that's revisionist history.

have you not all learned that engaging in a battle with tuna is the same as doing so with prock???

you can never win a conversation using logic and common sense against someone who lacks both.....

so explain to me how this team's compete level took a huge noise dive once Bryan Murray took over as GM?

And Murray did spend to cap the first few years he was GM, we added salary, but we still sucked - so that's revisionist history.
- tuna99

Because Muckler left the cupboard absolutely bare, with no farm system to speak of...and Brian Lee

I disagree that the coaches are reigning him on...the only thing keeping the fans from turning on him was his exciting rushes, 3 or 4 per game, where he would gain the zone with ease and set a play up. Those are fewer and farther in between now, and the defensive zone hasn't been any better. He tries the rush, but all too often gets stopped in the neutral zone because he doesn't have the extra gear, possibly because he is playing so many minutes, and tougher minutes. Obviously it could also be the players he is on the ice with, and that is also a factor, but his top end speed doesn't seem to be there like it was even last year, after the return from injury. That made opposing players back off, and gave him and his teammates more room to move. If that fear isn't there, teams can stand him up in the neutral zone and snuff the rush before it really begins.
- JaredCrozier

Agree with the players he's on the ice with for sure. I think the only player capable of taking his hard passes are Turris and lately not even him. He's a one of a kind player though so many of the young guys are probably not used to playing with his style or skill. Hopefully down the road we see the old Karlsson again.