Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Fall to Avalanche, 5-2

I had predetermined that Folin for Gudas was stupid

the flyers were too cute in the offensive zone. the were slow moving it through the neutral zone and they gave up way too much time and space through the neutral zone the other way. the defense was often caught flat footed. lost all three initial face offs on their power plays. one dominating shift isn’t the 2nd period and an effective 3rd powerplay without the result. elliot was fantastic. very sloppy performance otherwise. folin sucks. no reason for him to play tonight. he was a big factor in the loss.

Nice McGregor flyers new PK coach. 🤩

Folin sucked everywhere and at everything

couldn't even make a simple clear

Nice McGregor flyers new PK coach. 🤩
- Landsbergfan

why would we want a loser as a coach

I had predetermined that Folin for Gudas was stupid
- YuenglingJagr

shockingly, it was

the flyers were too cute in the offensive zone. the were slow moving it through the neutral zone and they gave up way too much time and space through the neutral zone the other way. the defense was often caught flat footed. lost all three initial face offs on their power plays. one dominating shift isn’t the 2nd period and an effective 3rd powerplay without the result. elliot was fantastic. very sloppy performance otherwise. folin sucks. no reason for him to play tonight. he was a big factor in the loss.
- hammarby31

In the first period, I think the Flyers got through the NZ with ease. In the second period, they didn't do much of anything well. In the third period, there was a little more push but to no effect.

Elliott played extremely well deserved better. I also thought that Ghost had a strong game. Hagg, Coots, TK, Simmonds, and Giroux were solid and the 4th line guys were fine, that's about it for the positives.

As Bill pointed out, it wasn't one of Provy's better games. He was ok, but the Flyers need more than ok from Provorov to be successful on most nights. Sanheim had some good moments but his biggest weakness is still D zone coverage and strength. For a guy who is 6'3-6'4 and over 200 pounds he just gets pushed around much too easily. The kid really needs to hit the weight room in the next offseason. AMac had another poor game and I still think he came back from the injury too soon. I really can't see how Myers could give you less than him right now. Folin was god awful and should not be in the lineup again unless injuries force their hands. Right now he'd be 8th on my depth chart as I would bring up Myers if any Dman got injured and was projected to be out for more than 1 game.

For the forwards, both Patrick and especially Voracek really need to pick it up. They both were non-factors which is especially inexecusable for Jake as he is a veteran who is expected to be one of this teams best players. Vorobyev got his first goal which was nice but overall he was just ok which is fine for a kid playing only his 2nd NHL game. Lindblom had some good moments but he also made some uncharacteristic gaffes too.

All in all, the effort was there but a couple of very ill timed penalties, some horrible play by Dmen, mainly Folin but AMac wasn't that much better nor was Sanheim, and the inability to finish on the pp doomed them last night. Also, a good bit of blame has to fall on Hakstol for sitting Gudas for basically no reason. What's really odd about it is that Hak seems to rarely, if ever, change the lineup after a win other than going to his other goalie in the 2nd game of a back to back situation. It was simply a bad call on his part.

To all the haters who want to believe Hak’s swap of Folin for Gudas cost the game...it didn’t. Whether you agree on that decision is not the point. Do you really think the Flyers with all the other defensive woes and a PP that came up empty was going to win in Colorado with 2 goals? Lack of finishing has nothing to do with Folin or Gudas.

The game was close right up to the final minutes. The momentum switch of the Avs 3rd goal, proved to be the deciding factor. Hak was right to challenge goalie interference. Poor coverage in front by Sanheim, left the guys stick and vision available to make the deflection.

Great move by Hak to freshen up the D and give the new guy a chance to impress.

To all the haters who want to believe Hak’s swap of Folin for Gudas cost the game...it didn’t. Whether you agree on that decision is not the point. Do you really think the Flyers with all the other defensive woes and a PP that came up empty was going to win in Colorado with 2 goals? Lack of finishing has nothing to do with Folin or Gudas.

The game was close right up to the final minutes. The momentum switch of the Avs 3rd goal, proved to be the deciding factor. Hak was right to challenge goalie interference. Poor coverage in front by Sanheim, left the guys stick and vision available to make the deflection.
- NC Flyers Fan

All of this is true, however it was still a bad call on the coaches part and Folin's poor play directly led to a goal against. I don't hate Hak, nor am I calling for his head over this as that would be ridiculous. I'm just calling it what it was, a poor decision.

Any sane coach would give Weal a shot over Lehtera long before they forced Folin into the lineup. You cannot win playoff rounds with a coach who thinks he’s clever but is actually clueless.

All of this is true, however it was still a bad call on the coaches part and Folin's poor play directly led to a goal against. I don't hate Hak, nor am I calling for his head over this as that would be ridiculous. I'm just calling it what it was, a poor decision.-BiggE

You are most likely not one of the haters I was referring to then. However, I will say that the argument of Folin vs. Gudas is hypothetical since we will never know if Gudas would have played as well or given up his own goal(s) against.

To all the haters who want to believe Hak’s swap of Folin for Gudas cost the game...it didn’t. Whether you agree on that decision is not the point. Do you really think the Flyers with all the other defensive woes and a PP that came up empty was going to win in Colorado with 2 goals? Lack of finishing has nothing to do with Folin or Gudas.

The game was close right up to the final minutes. The momentum switch of the Avs 3rd goal, proved to be the deciding factor. Hak was right to challenge goalie interference. Poor coverage in front by Sanheim, left the guys stick and vision available to make the deflection.
-NC FLyer Fans

You cant argue this. If Gudas plays that changes what happens in the game altogether. There is no way to know what happens. Gudas could handle the game better, less mistakes and we wouldnt have had that 5 on 3. Maybe Gudas pots a rare goal, maybe he breaks up a couple plays by Colorado and sends our guys on the attack leading to more goals, maybe he takes a 5 min major and the game is worse than 5-2. Folin was on for 2 goals against. Maybe Gudas would have prevented those. If he does its a 2-2 hockey game. We dont know and we never will know. One player can make all the difference even if they are not super talented.

2 games into the season and the squabbling and hyperbole is in mid season form. Well done boys, keep up the good work!

The decision to play Folin in any capacity was just plain brain dead dumb.

On that note, when can we expect VDWeise to make his season debut?

Any sane coach would give Weal a shot over Lehtera long before they forced Folin into the lineup. You cannot win playoff rounds with a coach who thinks he’s clever but is actually clueless.
- Feanor

Most coaches would not take a player they use on PK out of the lineup in favor of a guy they use pretty much only at even strength. Weal may enter the lineup on LW on Tuesday if JVR misses time.

Any sane coach would give Weal a shot over Lehtera long before they forced Folin into the lineup. You cannot win playoff rounds with a coach who thinks he’s clever but is actually clueless.
- Feanor

Please! Lehtera played 11 mins last night and i suspect a good chunk of that to be PK time. Weal might be more talented offensively but he is still not a very good player and not a penalty killer. Lehtera is on the team because he fits a role and Weal is scratched because he doesnt belong.

Most coaches would not take a player they use on PK out of the lineup in favor of a guy they use pretty much only at even strength. Weal may enter the lineup on LW on Tuesday if JVR misses time.
- bmeltzer

I'm not a big Lehtera fan but I thought he was fine last night. Made a couple of strong plays along the boards and was ok on the pk. He is what he is.

edit: if it's short term then yeah, put Weal in. If, god forbid, it's long term, I wouldn't mind seeing Laughton go up to line 3 with Misha and Simmonds and Twarynski get called up to skate on the 4th line. Every shift he took last night for the Phantoms he seemed to make something happen as he had a very strong game. You could also say the same for NAK too.

You cant argue this. If Gudas plays that changes what happens in the game altogether. There is no way to know what happens. Gudas could handle the game better, less mistakes and we wouldnt have had that 5 on 3. Maybe Gudas pots a rare goal, maybe he breaks up a couple plays by Colorado and sends our guys on the attack leading to more goals, maybe he takes a 5 min major and the game is worse than 5-2. Folin was on for 2 goals against. Maybe Gudas would have prevented those. If he does its a 2-2 hockey game. We dont know and we never will know. One player can make all the difference even if they are not super talented.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Exactly my point. It’s hypothetical. What is not hypothetical is that 2 goals wasn’t going to get the win. Did Folin have a “solid” one game? No. In fairness that wasn’t an easy game. He wasn’t the only one having trouble either. Others had arguably worse. But did Hak throw him under the bus. No. These line up choices make people crazy mad, but they are hypothetical.

In my opinion, this was not significant in the loss. You have your own opinion and that is fine. I just don’t see the hating Hak over this as legitimate.

You cant argue this. If Gudas plays that changes what happens in the game altogether. There is no way to know what happens. Gudas could handle the game better, less mistakes and we wouldnt have had that 5 on 3. Maybe Gudas pots a rare goal, maybe he breaks up a couple plays by Colorado and sends our guys on the attack leading to more goals, maybe he takes a 5 min major and the game is worse than 5-2. Folin was on for 2 goals against. Maybe Gudas would have prevented those. If he does its a 2-2 hockey game. We dont know and we never will know. One player can make all the difference even if they are not super talented.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Impossibe to say. Maybe Gudas would have had a strong game. Or maybe he, too, would have had one of those nights: turns a puck over, screens Elliott on a goal,.has another one bounce in off his skate, and later tries to step up in the NZ for a hit and gets behind the puck on a 2-on-1.

I personally would not have made any lineup changes for last night, and Folin didn't do anything to justify the decision. But there were many culprits last night, and there is no telling if Gudas would have played well or poorly had he played.

Folin doesn't touch the ice again unless there is an injury or two. 4th line is fine. Sanheim needs to qb 2nd pp unit instead of Provy. Our top 9 will wake up soon. Elliott is average at best which is what we all knew. He has played well thus far. Hak shouldn't ride him too long though. Thought pp1 had good puck movement. Pp2 just doesn't get enough time to work.

We knew d and goalies were question marks. Nothing has changed through first 2 games.

Folin doesn't touch the ice again unless there is an injury or two. 4th line is fine. Sanheim needs to qb 2nd pp unit instead of Provy. Our top 9 will wake up soon. Elliott is average at best which is what we all knew. He has played well thus far. Hak shouldn't ride him too long though. Thought pp1 had good puck movement. Pp2 just doesn't get enough time to work.

We knew d and goalies were question marks. Nothing has changed through first 2 games.
- cdearth23

Elliott was very good last night, but yeah, overall he is average. Looking at the October schedule, I'd like to see them do the following re starting goalie. Of course this assumes that Neuvirth can't get or stay healthy long enough to start a game:

10/9 vs Sharks: Elliott
10/10 vs Ottawa: Pickard
10/13 vs Vegas: Elliott
10/16 vs Florida: Elliott
10/18 vs Columbus: Pickard
10/20 vs Devils: Elliott
10/22 vs Avs: Pickard
10/25 vs Boston: Elliott
10/27 vs Islanders: Elliott
10/30 vs Anaheim: Elliott
11/1 vs LA: Pickard

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