Jeremy Laura: Yzerman has created excitement and energy during the rebuild.

Mantha looked good last night. Different team, different coaching styles, different schemes. He'll do well, I think. Heck, I might even be able to score a bit on that team.....

The deal has gone down, now we have to ID the good part of it, and hope for the best. I'm hearing opinions on different venues that Detroit "won" this deal, but I agree that it's going to take several years to determine the true winner....and Mantha will be in his mid-30s by then, so by default, Detroit "wins". I'm not sure Vrana will sign with Detroit, being honest. As long as we can get a beefy return in a trade, I'm good, I guess. Trying to see the benefit v the loss....

I'm waiting to see how Vrana plays, but I just don't see how he can flourish on the ice w/Detroit; different team, different coaching styles, different schemes....

I've said this before, but I think Mantha is going to be a very good fit in Washington, and I also am optimistic that Vrana will ultimately prove that he deserves the extra minutes he's likely to get in Detroit, a la Fabbri. Would really love to see both players flourish in their new surroundings.

Jeremy, can SY trade for a coach - anyone??? Please??? I just have the biggest problem even seeing this guy behind a bench. He does not belong as head coach.

Mantha looked good last night. Different team, different coaching styles, different schemes. He'll do well, I think. Heck, I might even be able to score a bit on that team.....

The deal has gone down, now we have to ID the good part of it, and hope for the best. I'm hearing opinions on different venues that Detroit "won" this deal, but I agree that it's going to take several years to determine the true winner....and Mantha will be in his mid-30s by then, so by default, Detroit "wins". I'm not sure Vrana will sign with Detroit, being honest. As long as we can get a beefy return in a trade, I'm good, I guess. Trying to see the benefit v the loss....

I'm waiting to see how Vrana plays, but I just don't see how he can flourish on the ice w/Detroit; different team, different coaching styles, different schemes....
- mcmastermike1968

Obviously it's an open question. He could succeed and he could fail.

For what it's worth, I think Vrana was a bad fit for Laviolette's system, and he was still highly productive in limited ice time. He's fast, great at creating chances off the rush, and he's a sniper. Probably a better shooter than Mantha even. But also maybe a little redundant as a LW on a team that already has Alex Frickin' Ovechkin.

I think he adds a few elements to the mix in Detroit that we didn't have before.

Obviously it's an open question. He could succeed and he could fail.

For what it's worth, I think Vrana was a bad fit for Laviolette's system, and he was still highly productive in limited ice time. He's fast, great at creating chances off the rush, and he's a sniper. Probably a better shooter than Mantha even. But also maybe a little redundant as a LW on a team that already has Alex Frickin' Ovechkin.

I think he adds a few elements to the mix in Detroit that we didn't have before.
- Sven22

Should've been more precise; I'm going to try to keep an open mind. But ANY player's going to struggle in the current Wings "system". Until there's a change in coaching philosophy.....yeah, painful.

Should've been more precise; I'm going to try to keep an open mind. But ANY player's going to struggle in the current Wings "system". Until there's a change in coaching philosophy.....yeah, painful.
- mcmastermike1968

I totally hear you. Detroit is not exactly ideal.

That said:

- I don’t think talented players are guaranteed to struggle here. I mentioned Fabbri, who has really thrived with the extra opportunity. Stecher too. It can be done.

- As I mentioned in a previous thread, Vrana’s per-60 scoring rates are actually significantly higher than Mantha’s. So he can lose a decent amount of ground due to the change in environment and still wind up with comparable production.

But I should probably stop defending Vrana so hard before he even plays his first game as a Red Wing. I’m probably jinxing him. If he sucks, feel free to blame me.

Jeremy, can SY trade for a coach - anyone??? Please??? I just have the biggest problem even seeing this guy behind a bench. He does not belong as head coach.
- BiffPokaroba

This is kind of the time of year to re examine that. Yzerman clearly has a team structure in mind. Last year, he flat out said that he wouldn’t pin results on Blashill. You could see how many guys got turned over. Similar statement this year. Now, to Blashill’s credit (and I don’t give a ton) the team is playing defense. Zadina’s commitment to backchecking is insanely high. That’s a step in the right direction.

I also think that, from day one, just like the team structure Yzerman has a “coach type” in mind, if not an actual coach. Blashill is making near league minimum on coach salary (as is Brind’amour btw) and is helping the team. Once Yzerman decides enough of the structure is in place, personnel will follow. That’s not a “guarantee” that Blashill will be replaced, but I get the feeling Yzerman will make that move.

I have a feeling everyone on the team and staff did a double take at the mirror after Monday. Not many (if any) expected that move. The HNIC and NHL desk are still going on about the fact that Mantha has term and no in in the market wanted term. At this point nothing but an organizational name change would be a shock. If a new coach is in the works, expect them before the draft. That’s a really important moment. We’ll see how it all comes together

I've said this before, but I think Mantha is going to be a very good fit in Washington, and I also am optimistic that Vrana will ultimately prove that he deserves the extra minutes he's likely to get in Detroit, a la Fabbri. Would really love to see both players flourish in their new surroundings.
- Sven22

I absolutely want both to succeed. Part of the reason the numbers don’t always tell the tale has to do with the environment. a lot of people thought Athanasiou would thrive in Edmonton (even thought Yzerman got lowballed). I had one person tell me AA would score a goal a game if he got to play with McDavid. AA did get some time with McDavid to start, it didn’t materialize. Ex players talk about guys who would score all their goals once the team was out of the playoff race. Once the pressure was gone, they would pad the heck out of their stats. Athanasiou’s biggest season saw a significant jump in the second half (and he was playing center). But, start of the next year and it was gone. Go to a new team, can’t get it back. With L.A. there’s been some good moments, but overall it’s just not a player who will consistently produce at that 30g pace. Who Mantha is on the ice is just completely different than who Vrana is. I compared Vrana to Helm in his prime (2008-2012 ish). Yes, he’s a center, but he played wing a lot with Draper taking draws at that time. He was lightning on the ice, and Holland was offered a lot for him (including Rick Nash for a package w/ Helm and Filppula). When Helm switched to center he became the faceoff guy for the bottom 6 and his speed made him a penalty killer. Vrana has a much better shot, for sure. But Helm was groomed to be Draper’s replacement. In this system, and in the future system, defense from the forwards is going to be across the board. Some guys find a way to contribute, but it’s tough. Yzerman gave up goals as a player to win a championship. Larkin was pulled aside by Z and told, “if you keep playing that way you’ll score 30 goals but won’t win anything”. The organization still values Bowman’s philosophy, and for good reason. If Yzerman can find a Kucherov and some insane defensemen like Hedman that are so good they free up the forwards, goals will come way more. As it is, Detroit usually needs 3 men (or more) back just to get the puck into the neutral zone with 1 or 2 forwards on 3 defending players.

Should've been more precise; I'm going to try to keep an open mind. But ANY player's going to struggle in the current Wings "system". Until there's a change in coaching philosophy.....yeah, painful.
- mcmastermike1968

I tend to agree

I absolutely want both to succeed. Part of the reason the numbers don’t always tell the tale has to do with the environment. a lot of people thought Athanasiou would thrive in Edmonton (even thought Yzerman got lowballed). I had one person tell me AA would score a goal a game if he got to play with McDavid. AA did get some time with McDavid to start, it didn’t materialize. Ex players talk about guys who would score all their goals once the team was out of the playoff race. Once the pressure was gone, they would pad the heck out of their stats. Athanasiou’s biggest season saw a significant jump in the second half (and he was playing center). But, start of the next year and it was gone. Go to a new team, can’t get it back. With L.A. there’s been some good moments, but overall it’s just not a player who will consistently produce at that 30g pace. Who Mantha is on the ice is just completely different than who Vrana is. I compared Vrana to Helm in his prime (2008-2012 ish). Yes, he’s a center, but he played wing a lot with Draper taking draws at that time. He was lightning on the ice, and Holland was offered a lot for him (including Rick Nash for a package w/ Helm and Filppula). When Helm switched to center he became the faceoff guy for the bottom 6 and his speed made him a penalty killer. Vrana has a much better shot, for sure. But Helm was groomed to be Draper’s replacement. In this system, and in the future system, defense from the forwards is going to be across the board. Some guys find a way to contribute, but it’s tough. Yzerman gave up goals as a player to win a championship. Larkin was pulled aside by Z and told, “if you keep playing that way you’ll score 30 goals but won’t win anything”. The organization still values Bowman’s philosophy, and for good reason. If Yzerman can find a Kucherov and some insane defensemen like Hedman that are so good they free up the forwards, goals will come way more. As it is, Detroit usually needs 3 men (or more) back just to get the puck into the neutral zone with 1 or 2 forwards on 3 defending players.
- Jeremy Laura

In fairness I don't know that there was ever a particularly good stats case for AA being a great fit with McDavid. Athanasiou has always been a very limited player and kinda needs to be a puckhog backed up by solid two way linemates to be effective. If someone is going to be a puckhog on a line with McDavid it had better be McDavid.

Vrana is not as complete a player as Mantha but he is loads better than AA or Helm ever were. In my opinion anyways.

EDIT: Just in case it wasn't clear, I do get where you're coming from and appreciate your perspective. I'm a little bit more optimistic and you're a little bit more cautious about the trade, but ultimately it'll be determined on the ice.

Detroit's successful rebuild is well underway and making good progress.

Yzerman has dug the team out of salary cap hell by jettisoning problematic contracts.

He has amassed a dragon's hoard of draft picks.

And he has a lot of valuable cap space.

Although it's not showing in the win column yet, the team has a much brighter outlook than it did when he first took over.

Yzerman has to draft well. he can accumulate all the draft picks he wants but if he doesnt draft well it means nothing. let see what he can do with all these draft picks.

I have been putting up trade scenarios all season and thought that Mantha was the only real trade chip that could garner a good return. But I did not envision that it would be with the Caps. I thought Buffalo would have been the most likely partner and it would have been a hockey deal for either Eichel or Reinhart. I think this will prove to be good for both clubs, but obviously Mantha has a very good start with Washington and may FINNALLY become the player that was expected of him. I hope everyone is not expecting Vrana to score as often as Mantha probably will, he won't have the linemates that Big Tony has. Hopefully the Wings have their scouting in order for the virtual scout and draft......hopefully it is not as much of a crap shot as most expect. If they hit on that 1st from Washington, it will be a big step in the rebuild. All we can do is hope and I am sure all the Yser-scouts will do their do-diligence in making 2021 a successful draft!

Detroit's successful rebuild is well underway and making good progress.

Yzerman has dug the team out of salary cap hell by jettisoning problematic contracts.

He has amassed a dragon's hoard of draft picks.

And he has a lot of valuable cap space.

Although it's not showing in the win column yet, the team has a much brighter outlook than it did when he first took over.



- GalacticStone

It’s almost shocking how much he’s done in just 2 years. 19 trades, Abdelkader buyout, letting contracts expire and walk. More than a team’s worth of personnel swapping and stockpiling picks. He has been surgical and purposefu for sure

Yzerman has to draft well. he can accumulate all the draft picks he wants but if he doesnt draft well it means nothing. let see what he can do with all these draft picks.
- wingz4life

I agree. His scouting process is intense. I actually think his 2nd round and above scouting are more impressive than the first round at times. I think the first round gets clouded and muddied by hype and overcoverage.

In fairness I don't know that there was ever a particularly good stats case for AA being a great fit with McDavid. Athanasiou has always been a very limited player and kinda needs to be a puckhog backed up by solid two way linemates to be effective. If someone is going to be a puckhog on a line with McDavid it had better be McDavid.

Vrana is not as complete a player as Mantha but he is loads better than AA or Helm ever were. In my opinion anyways.

EDIT: Just in case it wasn't clear, I do get where you're coming from and appreciate your perspective. I'm a little bit more optimistic and you're a little bit more cautious about the trade, but ultimately it'll be determined on the ice.
- Sven22

I hear you. I think whatever we see for the remainder of the year is a bit of “file it away”. What the team looks like after the draft/free agency and training camp will probably be so much different. By Christmas we’ll know how Vrana/Panik have fit in. Hopefully Bertuzzi will have a strong/healthy season and we have 2 solid top lines and an improving third line. Not playoff bound, but more consistent with a better goals for

Good to see you've stepped back from the ledge

Has anybody got any info on Panik ? Does he bring any value to the team or have any upside ? I know he was a salary dump for the Caps.... All I've heard is like 3rd line grinder...

At a minimum he adds some protection for the expansion draft I guess.

Has anybody got any info on Panik ? Does he bring any value to the team or have any upside ? I know he was a salary dump for the Caps.... All I've heard is like 3rd line grinder...

At a minimum he adds some protection for the expansion draft I guess.
- Vladdie_Kon1

3rd or 4th liner grinder, nothing more. Detroit was going to have a hard time meeting the requirements for exposing players with minimum number of games played.

Has anybody got any info on Panik ? Does he bring any value to the team or have any upside ? I know he was a salary dump for the Caps.... All I've heard is like 3rd line grinder...

At a minimum he adds some protection for the expansion draft I guess.
- Vladdie_Kon1

Perfectly functional if unremarkable third-line winger IMO.

A little below average offensively, a little above average defensively, decent shot, very good at drawing penalties. Doesn't really play much special teams (either PP or PK) but generally reliable at even strength. Bit of a pest / agitator. That's my impression anyway.

Nothing to get excited about but no obvious major holes in his game.

He (along with Nielsen, DeKeyser, and Fulcher) fulfills Detroit's expansion draft obligations, avoiding a scenario where they'd be obligated to leave, say, Namestnikov unprotected.

Not crazy about the fact that he's 30 and has two more years left after this one but, at least for right now, I'd say it's acceptable value for what he provides. (Read: he's overpaid but his contract isn't awful, especially for a team that should have cap space for a couple more years let.)

EDIT: Should probably add that there's maybe some organizational bad blood due to some questionable hits / embellishments Panik made during the 2013 Calder Cup Finals against the Griffins. So I don't have the fondest memories of him exactly, but that was also eight years ago.

Perfectly functional if unremarkable third-line winger IMO.

A little below average offensively, a little above average defensively, decent shot, very good at drawing penalties. Doesn't really play much special teams (either PP or PK) but generally reliable at even strength. Bit of a pest / agitator. That's my impression anyway.

Nothing to get excited about but no obvious major holes in his game.

He (along with Nielsen, DeKeyser, and Fulcher) fulfills Detroit's expansion draft obligations, avoiding a scenario where they'd be obligated to leave, say, Namestnikov unprotected.

Not crazy about the fact that he's 30 and has two more years left after this one but, at least for right now, I'd say it's acceptable value for what he provides. (Read: he's overpaid but his contract isn't awful, especially for a team that should have cap space for a couple more years let.)

EDIT: Should probably add that there's maybe some organizational bad blood due to some questionable hits / embellishments Panik made during the 2013 Calder Cup Finals against the Griffins. So I don't have the fondest memories of him exactly, but that was also eight years ago.
- Sven22

Panik had a good year with Chicago. But I believe he was on Kane's line for a bit. That raised his stock enough for Chicago to trade him off. Too bad Holland did not see that with Abby. Holland could have gotten something for Abby as Datsyuk had raised his stock. Panik is going to be here for a while to pester the Wings opponents and hopefully not take too many penalties. Maybe Stevie uses him as a throw-in on a deal at the draft, salary will likely have to be retained.

Panik had a good year with Chicago. But I believe he was on Kane's line for a bit. That raised his stock enough for Chicago to trade him off. Too bad Holland did not see that with Abby. Holland could have gotten something for Abby as Datsyuk had raised his stock. Panik is going to be here for a while to pester the Wings opponents and hopefully not take too many penalties. Maybe Stevie uses him as a throw-in on a deal at the draft, salary will likely have to be retained.
- HenryHockey

Panik draws more penalties than he takes, thankfully. Which is what you want in a pest.

Panik draws more penalties than he takes, thankfully. Which is what you want in a pest.
- Sven22

His 22 points last season would have been 6th best on the wings forward wise.

Rocking a PDO of 94 this season.

Nothing special but should help upgrade the bottom 6.

He’s good buddies with Tatar. Maybe we can bring him in on a 2 year deal.

His 22 points last season would have been 6th best on the wings forward wise.

Rocking a PDO of 94 this season.

Nothing special but should help upgrade the bottom 6.

He’s good buddies with Tatar. Maybe we can bring him in on a 2 year deal.
- Feds91Stammer

Don't even tease me like this. My heart can't take it.