John Gove: Changing my mind on Blake Coleman

Muchas Gracias Juan!

Excited to see what Coleman can bring on both sides of the ice. This team will be much more difficult to play against with the new additions.

I still think Tre will make a major move this offseason. Just have to wait for the Eichel domino falls and then we will see more moves.

If Calgary does not land Eichel anyone have any ideas? Not sure if Devorak (sp?) puts Flames into the conference finals.

The rub is that Sutter's coaching is suspect. How he treats players with talent. He is willing trade offense for defense. And production suffers.

The rub is that Sutter's coaching is suspect. How he treats players with talent. He is willing trade offense for defense. And production suffers.
- BluemanGuruu

This is why I was baffled when JG was not traded this summer.

Once again, why is Lucic or Monahan or someone of that sort gonna waive their NMC for a promise to be flipped somewhere else, that could wind up being a Columbus or Anaheim or somewhere else they don't want to go just to help those 2 teams make a trade, and not be guaranteed of their NMC going forward.

And adding the 3M or whatever of that retention still doesn't make up the 10M that BUF needs minimum to reach the floor. Once again, Middlestadt Dahlin and Jokiharju are coming off entry level contracts. They most likely make 8M combined next year, not close to 20.

Also, Buffalo has reportedly asked for that supposed cost just for Eichel, what else do they want to take on a Lucic type contract? Another 1st round type pick?
- wreckage

The bold is not true anymore as the updated CBA language means the NTC or NMC a player has on their contract is for the life of their contract and goes with them when they are traded.

The acquiring team no longer has the right to void that condition, even if a player agrees to be traded somewhere they didn't want to initially.

Thanks John,

I think Coleman will surprise us all. When you have a stacked team like Tampa, sometimes players like Coleman get the recognition that they are only good due to the talent of the team. But, I agree with you, Coleman has the skill to be a top 6 forward who can produce and make his teammates better. I think him with Mangi and Monohan will be a good line.

I agree with above except I don't know who Monohan is?
Could you mean Monahan?

Thanks John - hopefully Coleman can bring some life/momentum to this group, the biggest concern is for our forwards to produce again, the loss of Gio on the defence and puck movement, for Monahan to be healthy and improve center position, and Markstrom to be solid again.

I agree with above except I don't know who Monohan is?
Could you mean Monahan?
- K-man25

Monohan is the more effective version of Monahan

Monohan is the more effective version of Monahan
- hockey4hockey

Are you talking about Manahon?

I wouldn't be surprised if Sutter put Coleman as 2C, he's a complete player. And to isolate Monahan, who's more of a sniper, on the wing.

I thought it was Maryohan.

Coleman was pretty good with the mediocre Devils too. Thats why he fetched a first rounder

How's this for irony:
Sam Bennett suspension, from his playoff charging hit - was against Coleman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlyMUj0LwnY

When Coleman was mic'd up, it was against Calgary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KE2lFgst5s

also a few fight videos of him, and he's known to make diving plays to score (i've seen at least 4-5 such goals from a couple highlight reels)..many of his goals seem to come from the forecheck, then turns nothing into something; also being in the right place right time aka positioning.. I'm expecting him to be real entertaining to watch, then you think of him possibly getting paired with Mangiapane.. wow.. that'll be exciting.

This is why I was baffled when JG was not traded this summer.
- DuranDuran

Gaudreau had 22 points in his last 16 games under Sutter and looking at his charts his D is far better than people think

I thought it was Maryohan.
- FlamesFan1230

I would go with that... it sounds more cool

Are you talking about Manahon?
- DuranDuran

Ya he's ok too Duran, but Monohan is the beast we all need to show up this year I don't think Eichel will happen before the season begins, so having healthy Monahan, Coleman and Mangie will be exciting to watch.
Man, It's so cold here today .... I am not ready for winter yet. Need more summer. But I am sure you are enjoying +25 weather Duran

Gaudreau had 22 points in his last 16 games under Sutter and looking at his charts his D is far better than people think
- flashfire

I've been saying this since people have been trashing JG. His defensive game, while not great, is acceptable for a guy that generates offense like JG. He's not a detriment while he's out there.

Ya he's ok too Duran, but Monohan is the beast we all need to show up this year I don't think Eichel will happen before the season begins, so having healthy Monahan, Coleman and Mangie will be exciting to watch.
Man, It's so cold here today .... I am not ready for winter yet. Need more summer. But I am sure you are enjoying +25 weather Duran
- hockey4hockey

Dude it always spring here. I live down in a valley below Quito and it is year-round shorts weather.

I am heading to Antofagasta, in Northern Chile for work next month. A guy I used to play hockey with here in Quito moved to Ushuaia in Southern Argentina. My plan is to try and get down there and play some pond hockey there next year.

At least it getting colder in Cowtown means hockey will start soon and we can see this team lose games but beat the poop out of the other team.

I've been saying this since people have been trashing JG. His defensive game, while not great, is acceptable for a guy that generates offense like JG. He's not a detriment while he's out there.
- Ol_Boy_Wop

I am not questioning JG's amazing talent, his defensive game, or his playoff production.

When the games get tough he disappears. You don't win important games when your best player cannot raise his competitive level. That is my issue with him. He is an amazing complementary player but not the guy that will win you championships. It's just my opinion........I have been wrong once before.

I've been saying this since people have been trashing JG. His defensive game, while not great, is acceptable for a guy that generates offense like JG. He's not a detriment while he's out there.
- Ol_Boy_Wop

I really don't see it in the way he plays. He just doesn't engage defensively at all when I watch him out there. One handed poke checks, doesn't go to the boards, doesn't block shots... might as well not be on the ice when the puck is in the defensive end.

In terms of posession, he's a turnover machine - I also remember distinctly in his rookie year thinking we had a Datsyuk on our hands. A guy that would give it up occasionally, but fought like hell to get the puck back. He gives it away more now than he ever did and gets it back far less. Compare these stats to guys like Marner, Matthews, Kucherov, Crosby and you'll see a different player.

He blocked 9 shots last year... Marner blocked 40. Hell, McDavid blocked 25. If you're relying purely on CORSI/FENWICK, he looks fine defensively, but his +/- (yes, poopty stat, but relevant in comparison to other scorers) is in the crapper, he doesn't hit, take the puck away or block shots nearly as frequently as his peers and is a turnover machine

It's not about trashing his defensive game, it's that there is so much room for more there and hopefully he rounds out his game at some point. Yzerman scored a ton in his younger days, and learned that a better all around game was best to help his team win. Hopefully Johnny sees the same.

*edit* side note, this actually where Monahan is trending as a player. A better all around guy. We just crap on him because he's not scoring more/driving play. He's doing some of that harder work on that line. Going to the boards, taking pucks away, blocking shots...

I am not questioning JG's amazing talent, his defensive game, or his playoff production.

When the games get tough he disappears. You don't win important games when your best player cannot raise his competitive level. That is my issue with him. He is an amazing complementary player but not the guy that will win you championships. It's just my opinion........I have been wrong once before.
- DuranDuran

I'd like to say that I could prove you're wrong with that but I can't. I'll be the first one to say that I don't think he's the player to build a Stanley Cup winning team around but if they team jettisons him then the already light offense will dry up even more. That's fine if the team is going to rebuild but I doubt that's going to happen while Dutter and Treliving are in Calgary.

I really don't see it in the way he plays. He just doesn't engage defensively at all when I watch him out there. One handed poke checks, doesn't go to the boards, doesn't block shots... might as well not be on the ice when the puck is in the defensive end.

In terms of posession, he's a turnover machine - I also remember distinctly in his rookie year thinking we had a Datsyuk on our hands. A guy that would give it up occasionally, but fought like hell to get the puck back. He gives it away more now than he ever did and gets it back far less. Compare these stats to guys like Marner, Matthews, Kucherov, Crosby and you'll see a different player.

He blocked 9 shots last year... Marner blocked 40. Hell, McDavid blocked 25. If you're relying purely on CORSI/FENWICK, he looks fine defensively, but his +/- (yes, poopty stat, but relevant in comparison to other scorers) is in the crapper, he doesn't hit, take the puck away or block shots nearly as frequently as his peers and is a turnover machine

It's not about trashing his defensive game, it's that there is so much room for more there and hopefully he rounds out his game at some point. Yzerman scored a ton in his younger days, and learned that a better all around game was best to help his team win. Hopefully Johnny sees the same.

*edit* side note, this actually where Monahan is trending as a player. A better all around guy. We just crap on him because he's not scoring more/driving play. He's doing some of that harder work on that line. Going to the boards, taking pucks away, blocking shots...
- rmull905

Johnny is what he is: an extremely gifted offensive player and that's ok. I wasn't implying, and I thought it was obvious, that he's going to win a Selke just that he isn't as bad defensively as most suggest.

I'd like to say that I could prove you're wrong with that but I can't. I'll be the first one to say that I don't think he's the player to build a Stanley Cup winning team around but if they team jettisons him then the already light offense will dry up even more. That's fine if the team is going to rebuild but I doubt that's going to happen while Dutter and Treliving are in Calgary.
- Ol_Boy_Wop

I think this is why he was not traded. If no one is offering equal value then there is not point.

What do people think about Tage Thompson? Seems like he needs a new home.

Johnny is what he is: an extremely gifted offensive player and that's ok. I wasn't implying, and I thought it was obvious, that he's going to win a Selke just that he isn't as bad defensively as most suggest.
- Ol_Boy_Wop

I get it, but I think he might be worse than you think... I'm positing that he's an actual liability out on the ice. Which is not what you want, even from a gifted offensive guy.