Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 11/28/23 vs. Hurricanes

Bill, your thoughts on Torts coming out and saying he has no interest in developing a player if it will affect a win or loss?

Bill, your thoughts on Torts coming out and saying he has no interest in developing a player if it will affect a win or loss?
- ClaudeFather

Link? That's a ridiculous statement to make for a coach of this team.

Any idea how long cates is out for ? Or what it’s to do with?

Link? That's a ridiculous statement to make for a coach of this team.
- Flyers_01

https://twitter.com/billm...amp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Bill, your thoughts on Torts coming out and saying he has no interest in developing a player if it will affect a win or loss?
- ClaudeFather

I have no issue with this. He can't be sent down for fear of him being claimed. Hi job is to put the team in the best position to win. If the play of a player is hurting the team, you sit that player.

I have no issue with this. He can't be sent down for fear of him being claimed. Hi job is to put the team in the best position to win. If the play of a player is hurting the team, you sit that player.
- WhiskeyMan

On a team, that should be rebuilding, no you don't sit the player. Does that apply to all players or just certain players?

Bill, your thoughts on Torts coming out and saying he has no interest in developing a player if it will affect a win or loss?
- ClaudeFather

I think it's antithetical to prioritizing development first. When development is the No. 1 priority, you live with some losses due to miscues by your youngest, least experienced players at critical junctures of some games. It's done in the interest of seeing how well these players learn from such mistakes and make the right play in vital moments as they gain experience.

Doing it the other way is, in reality, prioritizing the immediate goal of squeezing out as many points as you can muster. If a young player can already handle those situations routinely and reliably, you aren't so much working on developing him at this point because he's already an NHL regular.

All that being said, I already knew that Tortorella prioritizes wins first and do not blame him for it. He's not a "teaching coach" in the Terry Murray in LA mold in the first decade of the 2000s. Torts is who he is and, if he's your coach, it's part of the deal that the game-to-game will always be his number one priority even if the organizational priority is development. He's also not a coach who is going to willingly (except in the preseason) allow Hockey Ops to make lineup decisions or press him to use A.B.C in certain situations.

Like or dislike it, the Flyers' "triumverate" setup isn't just lip service. Torts and Jonesy wield a lot of influence in weighing in on roster building, although Briere gets the final say on the roster. Briere and Jones get to we in on lineups and usage but Tortortella gets the final say. Briere and to a lesser extent, Torts, weigh in on what the overriding messaging from Hockey Ops should be in public commuincations but those ultimately go to Jonesy to decide.

On a team, that should be rebuilding, no you don't sit the player. Does that apply to all players or just certain players?
- MJL

His job is to put the team in the best position to win. He has sat TK, Hayes, Brink, Sanheim and Frost, I am sure I am missing some names. This isn't the ahl, it is the nhl.

His job is to put the team in the best position to win. He has sat TK, Hayes, Brink, Sanheim and Frost, I am sure I am missing some names. This isn't the ahl, it is the nhl.
- WhiskeyMan

Disagree, on a rebuilding team, part of his job is or at least should be developing players for the future. That should be the priority of this team. Again, does what you claim his job to be, does it apply to all the players on the team, or just certain ones?

Any idea how long cates is out for ? Or what it’s to do with?
- landros 2

Jordan Hall says 6-8 weeks. Lower body

I understand sitting a young player every once in a while to reset him. Maybe his confidence is flagging and he needs to have some pressure taken off of him. Or maybe he is wearing down from the sheer volume of games and needs a mental and physical break.

What I dont like is that the scratching turns in to 2 games, 4 games, 10 games. Then it makes no sense for a team that is supposed to be building for the future. Then you are damaging the players confidence from the opposite direction.

The Flyers are putting themselves in the position of repeating history again and again. Never fully in, never fully out, always in that limbo.

Any idea how long cates is out for ? Or what it’s to do with?
- landros 2

What? Link?

Jordan Hall says 6-8 weeks. Lower body
- Dkos

Wow. Must be a broken bone. He’s having a rough year overall for sure.

Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 11/28/23 vs. Hurricanes
- bmeltzer

Hi Bill, any idea who will replace Cates' spot in the starting lineup tonight ?

Hoping Bobby Brink gets a more consistent chance to play while they are a player down...

What? Link?

- MBFlyerfan

It’s on the flyers site

What? Link?

- MBFlyerfan

NM I see it now. Well, I guess we see Brink and Frost in the lineup together now.

NM I see it now. Well, I guess we see Brink and Frost in the lineup together now.
- MBFlyerfan

The horror

I wonder if they will call up a 13th forward. Allison maybe?

I dont want them calling up someone just so he sits in the Cote suite for 6 weeks.

The horror
- ClaudeFather

For Torts it will be....

I think it's antithetical to prioritizing development first. When development is the No. 1 priority, you live with some losses due to miscues by your youngest, least experienced players at critical junctures of some games. It's done in the interest of seeing how well these players learn from such mistakes and make the right play in vital moments as they gain experience.

Doing it the other way is, in reality, prioritizing the immediate goal of squeezing out as many points as you can muster. If a young player can already handle those situations routinely and reliably, you aren't so much working on developing him at this point because he's already an NHL regular.

All that being said, I already knew that Tortorella prioritizes wins first and do not blame him for it.
- bmeltzer

He's not a "teaching coach"

in the Terry Murray in LA mold in the first decade of the 2000s. Torts is who he is and, if he's your coach, it's part of the deal that the game-to-game will always be his number one priority even if the organizational priority is development. He's also not a coach who is going to willingly (except in the preseason) allow Hockey Ops to make lineup decisions or press him to use A.B.C in certain situations.

Like or dislike it, the Flyers' "triumverate" setup isn't just lip service. Torts and Jonesy wield a lot of influence in weighing in on roster building, although Briere gets the final say on the roster. Briere and Jones get to we in on lineups and usage but Tortortella gets the final say. Briere and to a lesser extent, Torts, weigh in on what the overriding messaging from Hockey Ops should be in public commuincations but those ultimately go to Jonesy to decide.

Further proof that maybe he is not the right coach for a team that publicly came out as rebuilding.

Bill, what is the timeline for Torts here? He obviously has a pretty long leash as the org has come out in favor of a rebuild so extending losing streaks/not making the playoffs are to be expected. But he also does not seem willing to scratch certain players or develop other younger ones at least in the conventional sense. Does Briere even have power to fire him and would he even want to? Torts was hired first in the triumvirate. Do you expect him to stick it out for 2 more years past this one and then get an advisory role as well as handpicking his successor?

It just seems unprecedented that an NHL head coach has been given this sort of power and drive over an entire hockey team. So much so that the GM's only moves so far were to trade out guys who did not get along with him and bring in guys who would (Staal, Hathaway). I know it's apples to oranges, but this feels like it could go the way of the Chip Kelly fiasco.

I think it's antithetical to prioritizing development first. When development is the No. 1 priority, you live with some losses due to miscues by your youngest, least experienced players at critical junctures of some games. It's done in the interest of seeing how well these players learn from such mistakes and make the right play in vital moments as they gain experience.

Doing it the other way is, in reality, prioritizing the immediate goal of squeezing out as many points as you can muster. If a young player can already handle those situations routinely and reliably, you aren't so much working on developing him at this point because he's already an NHL regular.

All that being said, I already knew that Tortorella prioritizes wins first and do not blame him for it. He's not a "teaching coach" in the Terry Murray in LA mold in the first decade of the 2000s. Torts is who he is and, if he's your coach, it's part of the deal that the game-to-game will always be his number one priority even if the organizational priority is development. He's also not a coach who is going to willingly (except in the preseason) allow Hockey Ops to make lineup decisions or press him to use A.B.C in certain situations.

Like or dislike it, the Flyers' "triumverate" setup isn't just lip service. Torts and Jonesy wield a lot of influence in weighing in on roster building, although Briere gets the final say on the roster. Briere and Jones get to we in on lineups and usage but Tortortella gets the final say. Briere and to a lesser extent, Torts, weigh in on what the overriding messaging from Hockey Ops should be in public commuincations but those ultimately go to Jonesy to decide.
- bmeltzer

I think zamula has looked like what he is, a young player getting accustomed to the NHL on a nightly basis. At times I’ve felt he has looked really strong, but there are a few times a game where he gets caught it makes a bad read. I think he’s going to be a good player. Sitting him for Marc staal is absurd. Zamula should be playing 80% of the games.

I think it's antithetical to prioritizing development first. When development is the No. 1 priority, you live with some losses due to miscues by your youngest, least experienced players at critical junctures of some games. It's done in the interest of seeing how well these players learn from such mistakes and make the right play in vital moments as they gain experience.

Doing it the other way is, in reality, prioritizing the immediate goal of squeezing out as many points as you can muster. If a young player can already handle those situations routinely and reliably, you aren't so much working on developing him at this point because he's already an NHL regular.

All that being said, I already knew that Tortorella prioritizes wins first and do not blame him for it. He's not a "teaching coach" in the Terry Murray in LA mold in the first decade of the 2000s. Torts is who he is and, if he's your coach, it's part of the deal that the game-to-game will always be his number one priority even if the organizational priority is development. He's also not a coach who is going to willingly (except in the preseason) allow Hockey Ops to make lineup decisions or press him to use A.B.C in certain situations.

Like or dislike it, the Flyers' "triumverate" setup isn't just lip service. Torts and Jonesy wield a lot of influence in weighing in on roster building, although Briere gets the final say on the roster. Briere and Jones get to we in on lineups and usage but Tortortella gets the final say. Briere and to a lesser extent, Torts, weigh in on what the overriding messaging from Hockey Ops should be in public commuincations but those ultimately go to Jonesy to decide.
- bmeltzer

What a setup.

Looking forward to another decade of futility. Maybe if we're lucky this "rebuild" will culminate in a few quick playoff appearances, maybe a miracle 1st-round upset (a la Columbus 2019) that Torts, DB and Jonesy can hang their hats on.

Meanwhile Michkov and Cutter's primes will be wasted, like Coots, Jake and G's.

Further proof that maybe he is not the right coach for a team that publicly came out as rebuilding.

Bill, what is the timeline for Torts here? He obviously has a pretty long leash as the org has come out in favor of a rebuild so extending losing streaks/not making the playoffs are to be expected. But he also does not seem willing to scratch certain players or develop other younger ones at least in the conventional sense. Does Briere even have power to fire him and would he even want to? Torts was hired first in the triumvirate. Do you expect him to stick it out for 2 more years past this one and then get an advisory role as well as handpicking his successor?

It just seems unprecedented that an NHL head coach has been given this sort of power and drive over an entire hockey team. So much so that the GM's only moves so far were to trade out guys who did not get along with him and bring in guys who would (Staal, Hathaway). I know it's apples to oranges, but this feels like it could go the way of the Chip Kelly fiasco.
- TobyFlenderson

sitting a guy so we can finish 20th instead of 22nd at the expense of a young player getting reps, great philosophy they have going.

I have no issue with this. He can't be sent down for fear of him being claimed. Hi job is to put the team in the best position to win. If the play of a player is hurting the team, you sit that player.

If that were the case Deslauriers would not have played every game this season.