Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Mondays with Meltzer,

Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Mondays with Meltzer,
- bmeltzer

Thanks Bill

https://x.com/i/web/status/1828709017008386222

https://hockey30.com/nouv...-paroles-sur-nick-suzuki/

"If Luchanko becomes half of Suzuki, we're going to be happy."

"No, nothing: I don't regret my choice," he says.

"Luchanko was a player that all our staff loved. For the same value, we preferred the centre, given our organisation chart for the future."

Spencer Gill, on the other hand, will have to prove that he is worth more than his late selection rank. By comparing him to a potential first-round player, Brière has already set the bar very high for this young defenseman from Rimouski.

https://hockey30.com/nouv...-paroles-sur-nick-suzuki/

Zzzzzzzz.

Not worth the time.

https://hockey30.com/nouvelles/daniel-briere-dans-leau-chaude-il-regrette-ses-paroles-sur-nick-suzuki/

"If Luchanko becomes half of Suzuki, we're going to be happy."

"No, nothing: I don't regret my choice," he says.

"Luchanko was a player that all our staff loved. For the same value, we preferred the centre, given our organisation chart for the future."

Spencer Gill, on the other hand, will have to prove that he is worth more than his late selection rank. By comparing him to a potential first-round player, Brière has already set the bar very high for this young defenseman from Rimouski.
- hello it's me 2050

What is half of Suzuki? Laughton but shorter?

What is half of Suzuki? Laughton but shorter?
- Dkos

math checks out

What is half of Suzuki? Laughton but shorter?
- Dkos

Suzuki with Torts coaching (who sits him every 2nd shift for lack of effort).

What is half of Suzuki? Laughton but shorter?
- Dkos

another laughton would be an organizational home run.

Anyone ever go back to that 2012 Laughton draft and see how much of crap shoot it was. Like, we get pretty upset for where Jett was taken but 2012 is the perfect example of … huh?

What is half of Suzuki? Laughton but shorter?

A 35 point 3C.

Anyone ever go back to that 2012 Laughton draft and see how much of crap shoot it was. Like, we get pretty upset for where Jett was taken but 2012 is the perfect example of … huh?
- roenick97

It's a fair point about Laughtsy, but I think people are specifically upset about trading down and not taking Buium because he has 1D, Adam Fox upside. And because Briere used his lack of size as a reason not to take him when Buium is 6'0", 185 lbs as an 18 year old.

Laughton has the 20th most points out of the 2012 draft, and he was taken at #20. Not bad at all.

https://www.eliteprospect...raft/nhl-entry-draft/2012

Despite missing a season with injury, Frost has the 18th most points from the 2017 draft where he went #27. But the we-need-a-sniper crowd went crazy when Hextall took him over Tolvanen. But Eeli has only managed 9 more points in 35 more NHL games.

https://www.eliteprospect...raft/nhl-entry-draft/2017

It's a fair point about Laughtsy, but I think people are specifically upset about trading down and not taking Buium because he has 1D, Adam Fox upside. And because Briere used his lack of size as a reason not to take him when Buium is 6'0", 185 lbs as an 18 year old.

Laughton has the 20th most points out of the 2012 draft, and he was taken at #20. Not bad at all.

https://www.eliteprospect...raft/nhl-entry-draft/2012

Despite missing a season with injury, Frost has the 18th most points from the 2017 draft where he went #27. But the we-need-a-sniper crowd went crazy when Hextall took him over Tolvanen. But Eeli has only managed 9 more points in 35 more NHL games.

https://www.eliteprospect...raft/nhl-entry-draft/2017
- Feanor

Neither bad nor good, right? Almost exactly what you would expect?

Looking at that list, Ghost is almost exactly tied with Morgan Rielly at ppg. Both average about 49 points a season. It is astonishing, because for a large chunk of his career, Ghost was relegated to 3rd pairing D: with greater D responsibiltiies than offensive leeway, and with lower minutes surely.

I think we failed to realize the potential of that guy. He might have become the biggest victim of the Fool's Gold impatience in the post-Hextall era.

He has gone to the ideal place. It will be interesting how he fares in Carolina, esp in comparison to Tony Deangelo.

Neither bad nor good, right? Almost exactly what you would expect?

Looking at that list, Ghost is almost exactly tied with Morgan Rielly at ppg. Both average about 49 points a season. It is astonishing, because for a large chunk of his career, Ghost was relegated to 3rd pairing D: with greater D responsibiltiies than offensive leeway, and with lower minutes surely.

I think we failed to realize the potential of that guy. He might have become the biggest victim of the Fool's Gold impatience in the post-Hextall era.

He has gone to the ideal place. It will be interesting how he fares in Carolina, esp in comparison to Tony Deangelo.
- PT21

he was already there, and they let him go once. we shall see how he does if he is put in a top 4 role.

Pronman ranking best players under 23:

#7 Matvei Michkov (Tier 2)

Skating: Average
Puck Skills: Elite
Hockey Sense: High-End
Compete: Average
Shot: Above Average

Michkov got loaned out from SKA to Sochi in the KHL this season where he scored at just under a point-per-game rate. Michkov is a winger with tremendous skill and hockey sense. He makes unique plays with the puck at an extremely high rate. He shows tremendous creativity with the puck, while also having a sixth sense of how to create scoring chances for others or find his way into a scoring position. Michkov is a freak with the puck, but without it he's mediocre. He's a so-so skater, with more good edges than footspeed, and he doesn't have a ton of physical play in him for an average-sized winger. There are reasonable concerns about his game, and in 99 percent of players those concerns could keep them out of the league, but when you're as skilled as Michkov I'm not that held up on it. He projects as a legit star winger in the NHL who can be a leading scorer on a team.


#60 Jamie Drysdale (Tier 6)

Skating: High-End
Puck Skills: Average
Hockey Sense: Above-Average
Compete: Average

Drysdale was traded to Philadelphia for Cutter Gauthier midseason. Drysdale has had injury issues in recent seasons, but when healthy he looks like a top-four defenseman. He's an outstanding skater with clear NHL speed and edge work. He gets back on pucks so quickly and can get the play moving up ice with his passing or speed. Drysdale has offense in his game although I wouldn't call him a dynamic skill type. He is a smart, smooth puck-mover but will probably never be a major points type. Even at his size, the hope is he can be a solid top-four defender due to his feet and hockey sense.


#70 Oliver Bonk (Tier 6)

Skating: Average
Puck Skills: Average
Hockey Sense: Above-Average
Compete: Average

Bonk was one of the top defensemen in the OHL this season, being a leading reason why London won the league championship. Bonk's game doesn't have a ton of highlight reels in it but there is a lot of substance. He is a very smart and smooth puck mover who makes a lot of good decisions. He has the NHL speed and skill to rush pucks up and make tough plays but you won't see him try to be a hero. He makes stops due to his length, feet and brain although I'd like to see him be a bit harder to play against physically. He scored a lot of goals this season and was in a unique role for a defenseman by playing the power-play bumper spot. He projects as a top-four defenseman.



#84 Jett Luchanko (Tier 7)

Skating: Above-Average
Puck Skills: Average
Hockey Sense: Above-Average
Compete: High-End
Shot: Below-Average

Luchanko took significant steps forward this season into a legit NHL prospect. He is one of the better skaters in the 2024 draft class. He has an explosive stride and when he winds up he'll be able to get plenty of controlled entries in the NHL. He competes very hard at both ends of the ice and attacks the tough areas. He has skill and excels as a playmaker. Luchanko often creates chances for his teammates can do so on the move, in tight and off the edge. His finishing touch could use work as he didn't convert on a lot of chances this season. As a smaller forward, whether his offense is special enough is a minor question but it lessened for me over the course of the season. He looks like a potential third-line center or second-line winger.



#125 Tyson Foerster (Tier 7)

Skating: Below-Average
Puck Skills: Average
Hockey Sense: Average
Compete: Average
Shot: High-End

Foerster had a good first full NHL season and became an important part of the Flyers' offense. He's a big winger with legit offensive skills. He can beat a lot of defenders one-on-one, he can make plays, and create at the net but it's his goal scoring that makes him valuable. His shot is lethal from range both in terms of his wrist shot and one-timer. Foerster's issues have always been about his skating and pace. He's still not fast, but he's smoothed out his stride enough that he can handle playing in the NHL. He'll always need to compete hard given that issue, but I think he does and with his scoring ability, he looks like a legit middle-six winger.

(Before anybody asks, Buium is #16 Tier 3 and Cutter is #65 Tier 6)

Pronman ranking best players under 23:




(Before anybody asks, Buium is #16 Tier 3 and Cutter is #65 Tier 6)
- Tomahawk

will never understand how some just do not have a high compete level. not sure what criteria they use for that, however.

will never understand how some just do not have a high compete level. not sure what criteria they use for that, however.
- hello it's me 2050

Keep in mind Pronman benchmarks against NHL-average so a prospect with "average" compete is already more competitive than most of their age group.

Keep in mind Pronman benchmarks against NHL-average so a prospect with "average" compete is already more competitive than most of their age group.
- Tomahawk

Yes, for Pronman's rankings. "average" is a good thing. Meaning NHL average, which in the grand scheme is elite compared to normal people.

he was already there, and they let him go once. we shall see how he does if he is put in a top 4 role.
- hello it's me 2050

I feel that whenever a team is not drafting in the top 5-10, their best bet is to find a 'diamond in the rough' kind of player. A player with some very high end potential, and some major issues. These major issues should be something the organization has an in-house coaching skill set to develop/improve to at least get to a workable level. Then, they should get this guy, and work away at those deficiencies with a very targeted plan, so he can tread water in those areas and flourish with his strengths.

In the case of Ghost, his lack of physicality near the paint, his lack of lower body strength to hem guys to the board, are skills that should be developable; while his skating, and offensive creativity are much more elusive skills. Once they drafted him, I saw no improvement in his game. Indeed, our players, especially D-men rarely develop new skillsets or correct deficiencies after they arrive. They become a little better/more experienced in what they are already good at (which could just be their own natural development from years of NHL experience). Their issues remain.

Foerster's skating might be the only exception to this observation I can think of. I don't watch a lot of the games anymore, but from what I am hearing from you guys, seems like it's above expectations compared to draft year.

Paradoxically enough, if Frost can imbibe Tort's defensive coaching and retain his offensive skills, he might end up being someone in this category.

Keep in mind Pronman benchmarks against NHL-average so a prospect with "average" compete is already more competitive than most of their age group.
- Tomahawk

In that chart, he is the only one with elite in some categories except Bedard. Michkov has elite puck skills, Bedard: elite there, and in shot iirc.

I feel that whenever a team is not drafting in the top 5-10, their best bet is to find a 'diamond in the rough' kind of player. A player with some very high end potential, and some major issues. These major issues should be something the organization has an in-house coaching skill set to develop/improve to at least get to a workable level. Then, they should get this guy, and work away at those deficiencies with a very targeted plan, so he can tread water in those areas and flourish with his strengths.

In the case of Ghost, his lack of physicality near the paint, his lack of lower body strength to hem guys to the board, are skills that should be developable; while his skating, and offensive creativity are much more elusive skills. Once they drafted him, I saw no improvement in his game. Indeed, our players, especially D-men rarely develop new skillsets or correct deficiencies after they arrive. They become a little better/more experienced in what they are already good at (which could just be their own natural development from years of NHL experience). Their issues remain.

Foerster's skating might be the only exception to this observation I can think of. I don't watch a lot of the games anymore, but from what I am hearing from you guys, seems like it's above expectations compared to draft year.

Paradoxically enough, if Frost can imbibe Tort's defensive coaching and retain his offensive skills, he might end up being someone in this category.
- PT21

Frost's defensive numbers are solid. That is the part I always argue about Torts developing a blind spot for certain players. I think Torts is over critical of Frost when it comes to his defense.

I know it is anecdotal but I always go back to that story Hartnell told about Torts. Torts told Hartnell he was never in the right position, they went to the video and Hartnell proved he was always in position. Torts just didn't trust him no matter what. His own eyes lied to him. It didn't matter what Hartnell did. Torts had a bias.

Frost's defensive numbers are solid. That is the part I always argue about Torts developing a blind spot for certain players. I think Torts is over critical of Frost when it comes to his defense.

I know it is anecdotal but I always go back to that story Hartnell told about Torts. Torts told Hartnell he was never in the right position, they went to the video and Hartnell proved he was always in position. Torts just didn't trust him no matter what. His own eyes lied to him. It didn't matter what Hartnell did. Torts had a bias.
- MBFlyerfan

With his ass on the ice?

Having watched essentially every game when Hartsy was here, many in person, I have trouble believing this.