Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: 2/15/12

Outstanding blog, Bill.

Flyers.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: 2/15/12
- bmeltzer

Superb work, Bill. Great analysis as usual.

My main hope for the Flyers, is to get a decent addition for the cheapest possible price. Solidify in case the chips fall right, but I don't think they're in a position to ignore other weaknesses to make a run at a huge name, be that name Rick Nash or Shea Weber.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: 2/15/12
- bmeltzer

Excellent summary here Bill. A dose of stark reality in this blog. It's not going to be easy to fix this d-core. There isn't any d-men in the pipeline (what else is new) and there doesn't appear to be any real difference makers available at the deadline.

Your point on Pronger being essentially two d-men wrapped into one, goes unnoticed by a lot of folks. He's a QB on the PP, as well as a force in his own end. There is no way to replace that with one player. A lot of fans were hoping for a big bounce back year from Pronger after an injury plagued season last year, instead it was a kick in the nuts with his career likely being ended.

When you say, "The only other alternative is to develop your own defensemen in the farm system, exhibit tremendous patience through their formative years. " Are you saying we should have more patience with regard to Carle, Mez and Coburn? Or are you refering to rookies like MAB and Gusty or guys who haven't seen any NHL time?

Hey Bill,

you articulated your point and the position in which the Flyers are in, so well that I don't think there is anything else that is left to be said about this topic!

The blob is bang on!

The transition game is key in today's NHL and I think that a skilled puck moving d-man with good stick skills in the defensvie zone is hard to argue against.

I don't know though, in a 7 game series I think someone who will wear down the opponent is something that is needed. Someone who will make the forwards look over their shoulder and hesitate.

Another great summation Bill.

It again points back to something that you, Tim P. and others pointed out weeks ago (I think just after the Winter Classic but not exaclty sure). The Flyers need 2 blueliners to take the pressur of the top four. They don't need to be great, but they need to be better than Walker, Lilja, and the kdis....and that won't be cheap. The alternative is to live with the kids and hope that Kimmo can hold up and instead look for a bonafied checking forward/shutdown artist to anchor a checking line that can log big minutes and play PK taking pressure off G and Cooter and Shenn. That might even pay higher dividends in the long run.

Hey Bill,

you articulated your point and the position in which the Flyers are in, so well that I don't think there is anything else that is left to be said about this topic!

The blob is bang on!

The transition game is key in today's NHL and I think that a skilled puck moving d-man with good stick skills in the defensvie zone is hard to argue against.

I don't know though, in a 7 game series I think someone who will wear down the opponent is something that is needed. Someone who will make the forwards look over their shoulder and hesitate.
- ggunky

Gutting the team for the second time in 8 months to add Nash will cure all the defensive ills.

Nash's cap hit, along with the assets it would take to acquire him, would make improving the defense core near damn impossible. Holmgren shouldn't waste one second of his time even thinking about Nash.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: 2/15/12
- bmeltzer

Bravo, sir.

Another great summation Bill.

It again points back to something that you, Tim P. and others pointed out weeks ago (I think just after the Winter Classic but not exaclty sure). The Flyers need 2 blueliners to take the pressur of the top four. They don't need to be great, but they need to be better than Walker, Lilja, and the kdis....and that won't be cheap. The alternative is to live with the kids and hope that Kimmo can hold up and instead look for a bonafied checking forward/shutdown artist to anchor a checking line that can log big minutes and play PK taking pressure off G and Cooter and Shenn. That might even pay higher dividends in the long run.
- wbon22

agreed. I'd take the other Schenn and Gill.

Bravo, sir.
- bradleyc4

ya this was the best

Excellent summary here Bill. A dose of stark reality in this blog. It's not going to be easy to fix this d-core. There isn't any d-men in the pipeline (what else is new) and there doesn't appear to be any real difference makers available at the deadline.

Your point on Pronger being essentially two d-men wrapped into one, goes unnoticed by a lot of folks. He's a QB on the PP, as well as a force in his own end. There is no way to replace that with one player. A lot of fans were hoping for a big bounce back year from Pronger after an injury plagued season last year, instead it was a kick in the nuts with his career likely being ended.
- PLindbergh31

The fact that Pronger is a PP qb as well as being good defensively goes unnoticed by very few. You'd have to be blind or living under a rock not to be aware of that. And Bill's blog wasn't negative on the Flyers current defense, nor was it a does of reality. The Flyers have 3 solid defenseman that they can build around if they choose to, as well as a top veteran in Timonen. I think you misunderstood Bill's blog and are looking at it with pessimism. But the Flyers defense is deeper then a lot of teams. And are in better shape to withstand the loss of a Pronger then a lot of teams.

agreed. I'd take the other Schenn and Gill.
- FlyerGuy

I see Gill's name mentioned a lot. Why give up any assets at all for a 25 game rental of a soon to be 37 year old guy? Gill isn't part of the future here if he is acquired, and he isn't going to be a difference maker in the playoffs. So in all honesty what's the point in trading for him?

bill, re: coburn, i wonder if he should get more minutes. he's typically played his best hockey for the flyers in the playoffs playing a ton of minutes. i also wouldn't mind if he got a look or two on the powerplay. good way to keep him in the game. while he's not always great at getting shots through but has a big one-timer and when he did see consistent PP time from 07-09, he had 8ppg and 18 ppa.

I see Gill's name mentioned a lot. Why give up any assets at all for a 25 game rental of a soon to be 37 year old guy? Gill isn't part of the future here if he is acquired, and he isn't going to be a difference maker in the playoffs. So in all honesty what's the point in trading for him?
- PLindbergh31

If it's only going to cost you, say a 4th round pick, why not? You don't have to be the #1 seed to win the Cup.

conspicuous by his absence in bill's analysis is lilja...dead on.

I see Gill's name mentioned a lot. Why give up any assets at all for a 25 game rental of a soon to be 37 year old guy? Gill isn't part of the future here if he is acquired, and he isn't going to be a difference maker in the playoffs. So in all honesty what's the point in trading for him?
- PLindbergh31

if you want to throw the habs a 4th rounder for gill and see if he helps, fine. but don't expect to be impressed, people. he might help. or he might be like lilja with slightly greater reach.

if allen is too pricey, i'd think you can get zanon out of minnesota for cheap. he's not big, but he throws his weight around, blocks a ton of shots, plays hard minutes against good competition while not giving up a ton of chances against.

I see Gill's name mentioned a lot. Why give up any assets at all for a 25 game rental of a soon to be 37 year old guy? Gill isn't part of the future here if he is acquired, and he isn't going to be a difference maker in the playoffs. So in all honesty what's the point in trading for him?
- PLindbergh31

I agree he isn't much ... but he's the type the Flyers need. I'd be happy at the deadline with Luke Schenn and Hall Gill replacing the kids.

I see Gill's name mentioned a lot. Why give up any assets at all for a 25 game rental of a soon to be 37 year old guy? Gill isn't part of the future here if he is acquired, and he isn't going to be a difference maker in the playoffs. So in all honesty what's the point in trading for him?
- PLindbergh31

It's depending on the cost. And you aren't bringing Gill in to be a difference maker. Just some temporary help that would improve the backend for the playoffs. If the cost is right.

If it's only going to cost you, say a 4th round pick, why not? You don't have to be the #1 seed to win the Cup.
- bradleyc4

I don't think he would come that cheaply. Even so, I think most realistic people think this is a transition year. The hot start may have expedited some aspirations, but this team is a ways away.

Gutting the team for the second time in 8 months to add Nash will cure all the defensive ills.

Nash's cap hit, along with the assets it would take to acquire him, would make improving the defense core near damn impossible. Holmgren shouldn't waste one second of his time even thinking about Nash.
- PLindbergh31

Flyers priority needs to be defense.

Unless Nash is offered to the Flyers for next to nothing, they should pass.

The fact that Pronger is a PP qb as well as being good defensively goes unnoticed by very few. You'd have to be blind or living under a rock not to be aware of that. And Bill's blog wasn't negative on the Flyers current defense, nor was it a does of reality. The Flyers have 3 solid defenseman that they can build around if they choose to, as well as a top veteran in Timonen. I think you misunderstood Bill's blog and are looking at it with pessimism. But the Flyers defense is deeper then a lot of teams. And are in better shape to withstand the loss of a Pronger then a lot of teams.
- MJL

I see a lot of potential in Coburn, Mez and Carle too. But, it seems like they've been given plenty of time. How long will it take for them to reach their potential? Maybe this is the best you can expect from them?

I agree he isn't much ... but he's the type the Flyers need. I'd be happy at the deadline with Luke Schenn and Hall Gill replacing the kids.
- FlyerGuy

Admittedly they would be an improvement. But what's the price? That is the key question. Schenn won't come cheaply obviously.

I don't think he would come that cheaply. Even so, I think most realistic people think this is a transition year. The hot start may have expedited some aspirations, but this team is a ways away.
- PLindbergh31

If not, then so be it. I wouldn't overpay for a rental, but I would like to see them try to get some help back there.

Maybe even a guy like Sarich, who's dying to get out of Calgary.

Flyers priority needs to be defense.

Unless Nash is offered to the Flyers for next to nothing, they should pass.
- ggunky

Agreed. And there is no way the Jackets aren't looking for a big return for him. Flyers would have to give up quite a bit of salary to even fit Nash.