Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Carle, Tagging Space, Alumni

I agree with what you are saying Bill but if he is looking for upwards of 5mil/yr how can u justify that? A slight raise on what he is getting paid is fine however, as he is certainly capable and can log minutes as you mentioned.

I agree with what you are saying Bill but if he is looking for upwards of 5mil/yr how can u justify that? A slight raise on what he is getting paid is fine however, as he is certainly capable and can log minutes as you mentioned.
- Daceroni

Agreed. 4.0-4.5 at the most would work for me.

I agree with what you are saying Bill but if he is looking for upwards of 5mil/yr how can u justify that? A slight raise on what he is getting paid is fine however, as he is certainly capable and can log minutes as you mentioned.
- Daceroni

I think he'll sign for $4.75 million to about $4.9 million.

If the Flyers do NOT re-sign him, they'll have to spend about the same to replace him. While I'd be interested in seeing the team add someone like Garrison for his big shot, they'd ALSO need someone to trigger the rush and move the puck. I'm not comfortable with handing the Carle role -- and minutes -- to Gustafsson.

If the club was to somehow be able to sign Suter, then it's a commitment of up to about $7 million of cap space for an upgrade on Carle but still an overpayment.

Everyday I read this blog (and THANK YOU BILL for that, it is awsome and basically my exclusive source for Flyers news) and most all of the postings (though I only occasionally chime in) and all of the fantasy scenerios of getting a Webber or Suter etc-----the more I think about it, i am totally fine if we resign #68, #25 and #93 and not rip our roster apart. I think we have an excellent core of young talent. If we stay healthy and gel at the right time, the sky is the limit next year.

I agree with what you are saying Bill but if he is looking for upwards of 5mil/yr how can u justify that? A slight raise on what he is getting paid is fine however, as he is certainly capable and can log minutes as you mentioned.
- Daceroni

How you can justify it is simple.

Who do you get to replace him that will cost less? There's not a UFA out there that accomplishes that. Most of the guys you could mention as trade targets will cost close to that and will require major assets in return.

Younger players that have smaller deals because they haven't hit UFA paydays yet will cost you a huge price in assets traded. Then in a year or two, you'll be paying them $5mm a year.

The UFA market is not deep. Suter could command a massive deal. Wideman isn't as good as Carle all around. Oduya re-signed. Garrison is likely to see a big deal, especially if Suter signs early.

So the choices are: Overpay a UFA, Overpay for a kid in trade and have to hand him a big raise in a year or two, or trade for a guy who is similar in age to Carle, making similar cash, and give up assets to do so.

Keeping Carle seems like a no brainer then

Everyday I read this blog (and THANK YOU BILL for that, it is awsome and basically my exclusive source for Flyers news) and most all of the postings (though I only occasionally chime in) and all of the fantasy scenerios of getting a Webber or Suter etc-----the more I think about it, i am totally fine if we resign #68, #25 and #93 and not rip our roster apart. I think we have an excellent core of young talent. If we stay healthy and gel at the right time, the sky is the limit next year.
- FlyersFirst

I'd be absolutely fine if they added a solid 4th/5th type defenseman, who can kill penalties and has some grit to his game, maybe a solid vet 4th line center who can win draws, work on the PK and be physical and maybe move Bob and bring in a veteran backup goalie.

Even if it's just the first two, I'd be good.

I'd be absolutely fine if they added a solid 4th/5th type defenseman, who can kill penalties and has some grit to his game, maybe a solid vet 4th line center who can win draws, work on the PK and be physical and maybe move Bob and bring in a veteran backup goalie.

Even if it's just the first two, I'd be good.
- Jsaquella

I agree, and I assume/hope that they'll do that.

Now, I just pray that this CBA doesnt frank up the 12/13 season in the interim.

I'm not getting involved with the Carle talk...

Good hear Big E is joining the golf tournament...wonder if my app will help him..

After looking at some D-men with 5.0 mill cap hits, Carle barely fits in there. But I always seem to forget he is only 27. I guess 5 would be a good value for him.

After looking at some D-men with 5.0 mill cap hits, Carle barely fits in there. But I always seem to forget he is only 27. I guess 5 would be a good value for him.
- Jimmygrazz

What is meant by barely fits in there? 5 would be a good value for him. Anything under 5, would be really good.

What is meant by barely fits in there? 5 would be a good value for him. Anything under 5, would be really good.
- MJL

I mean he is better than some of the people making that much, but not as good as some either

After looking at some D-men with 5.0 mill cap hits, Carle barely fits in there. But I always seem to forget he is only 27. I guess 5 would be a good value for him.
- Jimmygrazz

$5mm defensemen: Michal Rozsival. James Wisniewski. Kevin Bieksa($4.6 cap hit/$7mm salary), Paul Martin, Sergei Gonchar. Carle is as good or better than all of them

There are guys like Yandle who make $5mm, but they haven't hit UFA status yet, which means that they're not getting paid as much as a guy like Carle, who is at UFA.

Yandle as a UFA is probably a $6.5 or more hit. UFA status is a huge factor.

I mean he is better than some of the people making that much, but not as good as some either
- Jimmygrazz

The dependability of a player who has no glaring weakness, even if he has no major strength (just does everything well), is more valuable than a one-trick pony. No matter how good that one trick is.

$5mm defensemen: Michal Rozsival. James Wisniewski. Kevin Bieksa($4.6 cap hit/$7mm salary), Paul Martin, Sergei Gonchar. Carle is as good or better than all of them

There are guys like Yandle who make $5mm, but they haven't hit UFA status yet, which means that they're not getting paid as much as a guy like Carle, who is at UFA.

Yandle as a UFA is probably a $6.5 or more hit. UFA status is a huge factor.
- Jsaquella

Absolutely. You always have to look at levels of contracts. Yandle is still on his RFA deal making 5M, or whatever it is. That is essentially higher then Carle making 5M as a UFa. And there isn't really much difference between Carle and Yandle. If they get Carle at under5M, that's a bargain. And a real quality signing.

I mean he is better than some of the people making that much, but not as good as some either
- Jimmygrazz

I think Carle is what he is. A real solid defenseman who puts up points and moves the puck well, and plays well and is reliable in his own end.

How you can justify it is simple.

Who do you get to replace him that will cost less? There's not a UFA out there that accomplishes that. Most of the guys you could mention as trade targets will cost close to that and will require major assets in return.

Younger players that have smaller deals because they haven't hit UFA paydays yet will cost you a huge price in assets traded. Then in a year or two, you'll be paying them $5mm a year.

The UFA market is not deep. Suter could command a massive deal. Wideman isn't as good as Carle all around. Oduya re-signed. Garrison is likely to see a big deal, especially if Suter signs early.

So the choices are: Overpay a UFA, Overpay for a kid in trade and have to hand him a big raise in a year or two, or trade for a guy who is similar in age to Carle, making similar cash, and give up assets to do so.

Keeping Carle seems like a no brainer then
- Jsaquella

I agree with this. It seems that if the Flyers can keep Carle and add a guy like Garrison, this team can have a really solid defesive unit. I really dont wanna pour alot of money into Suter, esp with him reportedly not wanting to play for a bigger hockey market.

There could be a team needing to get the the salary floor that might take on Pronger's contract. I expect the Bruins to try and trade Tim Thomas under similar circumstances, since his cap hit will count and they don;t have any LTIR options for him.
- Jsaquella



Today @ 10:43 AM ET
I can't see a team paying any player on LTIR and semi-retired the amount of 19.5m over the next 4 years so they can get to a salary floor....when they can use that on an active player, who could contribute on the ice.
- huks99



Furthermore, I think the way the flyers front load there contract w/ large cash in the earlier years and it decreases thru out the contract like pronger, briere, bryz, make them more tradable if healthy and can get by the nmc..... That's a big if.

But brieres contract Paying 7,3,2 m over the next 3 years...avg 4m this year and next 2.5. W/ a cap hit of 6.5m....now that is attractive to a team trying to get to a salary floor....2 and 3m due in salary w/ a 6.5 per yer cap hit....that's doable

I agree with this. It seems that if the Flyers can keep Carle and add a guy like Garrison, this team can have a really solid defesive unit. I really dont wanna pour alot of money into Suter, esp with him reportedly not wanting to play for a bigger hockey market.
- bigmookalookie

the biggest thing i would like the Flyers to do is stay the course. Let this team grow with some minor changes.

I agree with this. It seems that if the Flyers can keep Carle and add a guy like Garrison, this team can have a really solid defesive unit. I really dont wanna pour alot of money into Suter, esp with him reportedly not wanting to play for a bigger hockey market.
- bigmookalookie

Instead of throwing $7m or so at Suter, I'd much rather get Carle at the 'below market value' figures Bill threw out there and eventually have that extra couple million available for a top defenseman.

like the saying goes putting all your eggs in one basket----

suter for 7+ or Carle and Jagr for 8ish.......i'd rather have the pair....just me...just sayin

I can't see a team paying any player on LTIR and semi-retired the amount of 19.5m over the next 4 years so they can get to a salary floor....when they can use that on an active player, who could contribute on the ice.

But brieres contract Paying 7,3,2 m over the next 3 years...avg 4m this year and next 2.5. W/ a cap hit of 6.5m....now that is attractive to a team trying to get to a salary floor....2 and 3m due in salary w/ a 6.5 per yer cap hit....that's doable
- huks99

If Bruins trade Thomas, the other team won't be paying him a cent. His cap hit will count, but he'll be suspended without pay by the team for the full season. If they so desire, the club will also have the option of "tolling" Thomas' contract -- compelling him to play for the team in 2013-14.

Briere is going nowhere. The Flyers are still happy with him and, for family reasons. he isn't about to waive his no-movement clause.

If Bruins trade Thomas, the other team won't be paying him a cent. His cap hit will count, but he'll be suspended without pay by the team for the full season. If they so desire, the club will also have the option of "tolling" Thomas' contract -- compelling him to play for the team in 2013-14.

Briere is going nowhere. The Flyers are still happy with him and, for family reasons. he isn't about to waive his no-movement clause.
- bmeltzer

I get that....but prongers salary would have to be paid....as for briere....you have put me on notice before re: briere not going anywhere...but I was trying to show the front loaded contracts in the later years and how they could be attractive to the bottom feeders to get to the cap floor....

1 other thing about Carle:

He seems to always assist on Playoff overtime game winning goals!

If Bruins trade Thomas, the other team won't be paying him a cent. His cap hit will count, but he'll be suspended without pay by the team for the full season. If they so desire, the club will also have the option of "tolling" Thomas' contract -- compelling him to play for the team in 2013-14.

Briere is going nowhere. The Flyers are still happy with him and, for family reasons. he isn't about to waive his no-movement clause.
- bmeltzer

I don't understand why anyone one would want to trade Briere. Point per game in the playoff guys just don't grow on trees....