Zach Jarom: Expectation Reality Check

1st

Let's see. KD threw almost 18M at Foligno and D1ckinson for the next 2 seasons. Gonna go out on a limb and say both contracts are for what they have done and not what they are going to do in the future. Unless you believe D1ckinson will sniff 15 goals again in his career.

Let's see. KD threw almost 18M at Foligno and D1ckinson for the next 2 seasons. Gonna go out on a limb and say both contracts are for what they have done and not what they are going to do in the future. Unless you believe D1ckinson will sniff 15 goals again in his career.
- Elbows15

I think both contracts are to get the team through two years as they wait for prospects to start filling out the ranks of the Blackhawks.

I think both contracts are to get the team through two years as they wait for prospects to start filling out the ranks of the Blackhawks.
- paulr

Right, but the argument put forth in the article was that KD wouldn't pay over the hill guys for "what they've done". I get that these two are technically doing something for this team, but they aren't exactly going to be on the team when competitive.

Right, but the argument put forth in the article was that KD wouldn't pay over the hill guys for "what they've done". I get that these two are technically doing something for this team, but they aren't exactly going to be on the team when competitive.
- Chunk

I don’t think KD is paying them for what they’ve done. Technically neither has really done anything for the Blackhawks, like Kane or Toews had. I think they are being overpaid as place holders. They aren’t going to get a better deal anywhere else.

Going forward I hope Davidson is able to avoid paying for what players did. But it maybe easier to say then to actually put into practice.

Let's see. KD threw almost 18M at Foligno and D1ckinson for the next 2 seasons. Gonna go out on a limb and say both contracts are for what they have done and not what they are going to do in the future. Unless you believe D1ckinson will sniff 15 goals again in his career.
- Elbows15

This isn't 5-10 years ago. You don't have a good team and need to start resigning guys for what they did. This is a bad team that needs to keep some decent vets on the roster while using up cap space until the young guys can start taking over. Sorry, I think your talking about two totally different situations.

I don’t think KD is paying them for what they’ve done. Technically neither has really done anything for the Blackhawks, like Kane or Toews had. I think they are being overpaid as place holders. They aren’t going to get a better deal anywhere else.

Going forward I hope Davidson is able to avoid paying for what players did. But it maybe easier to say then to actually put into practice.
- paulr

From the new blog...

We are in a new era of Hawks Hockey; gone are the days of Stan Bowman, who throws money at players for what they have done and not their potential, and then tosses a full no-movement clause on top of it.

Remind me what those players did. Oh right, win 3 Cups. Stan had his warts like any GM but the fact is winning is going to cost you and I don't get how people still don't get that.

In hindsight, should they have moved on from some guys? Sure, but if you're keeping 'em, show me the player who is giving a discount after winning 3 Cups.

Amen brother on this post...

That being said the expectation for next year is another decent veteran or two would want to join this project based on a new culture still being in its infancy while adding to it. If we get a full season with a healthy Taylor Hall and a veteran or two added on we can get markedly better next season with minimal improvements to everyday rookies still finding their NHL game.

I don't know when the point is you want to make that first big push at being good and investing in a big free agent or two vs. holding steady to knowingly perform poor enough to be within lottery pick range again for another year or two or five etc. That is so tough to say.

I've been a Hawks fan since birth and that's only 1980 but still I'll always root for the Hawks (and complain about everything bad I see like a die-hard - including bearing the brunt of Seth Jones playing years.

Forsling got a long term deal from Florida. Always liked him when he was here.

We traded Beauvillier after a few glorious months of hall of fame playing :/

College hockey season can’t wrap up soon enough, need some hope injection to Rockford and here to watch this team.

I think both contracts are to get the team through two years as they wait for prospects to start filling out the ranks of the Blackhawks.
- paulr

I know why they were signed and to an extent, I can rationalize the Foligno deal. D1ickinson's deal is outlandish. and yada yada cap space for two years and all that.

I am just saying he could have been signed for far less. And still wouldn't have found a better deal anywhere else.

Let's see. KD threw almost 18M at Foligno and D1ckinson for the next 2 seasons. Gonna go out on a limb and say both contracts are for what they have done and not what they are going to do in the future. Unless you believe D1ckinson will sniff 15 goals again in his career.
- Elbows15

Still have to get to the cap floor

From the new blog...

We are in a new era of Hawks Hockey; gone are the days of Stan Bowman, who throws money at players for what they have done and not their potential, and then tosses a full no-movement clause on top of it.

Remind me what those players did. Oh right, win 3 Cups. Stan had his warts like any GM but the fact is winning is going to cost you and I don't get how people still don't get that.

In hindsight, should they have moved on from some guys? Sure, but if you're keeping 'em, show me the player who is giving a discount after winning 3 Cups.
- HawkintheD

Look at what Sakic does in Colorado though.

That guy is ruthless. Removed Duchene and let Statsny walk. Let Kadri walk (and he was a huge part of the cup run). Just launched Byram who was playing a fairly important role and seen as "the future" by some people.

If Bowman had moved on from Sharp and Seabrook sooner and been more ruthless, maybe there is a better opportunity to extend the window.

Guys winning cups isn't an acceptable reason to tolerate mediocre play or decision making.

Look at what Sakic does in Colorado though.

That guy is ruthless. Removed Duchene and let Statsny walk. Let Kadri walk (and he was a huge part of the cup run). Just launched Byram who was playing a fairly important role and seen as "the future" by some people.

If Bowman had moved on from Sharp and Seabrook sooner and been more ruthless, maybe there is a better opportunity to extend the window.

Guys winning cups isn't an acceptable reason to tolerate mediocre play or decision making.
- fattybeef

Different decisions could've been made and they could've moved on from guys but my point still stands...if you bring them back you're typically paying them, and a lot.

Everything is always more clear through the lens of hindsight though right? At the time all of those deals were inked the team was still winning. Who knew the bottom was going to fall out two years later.

I think Sakic is doing a great job but also pretty sure he isn't working for a McDonough type Team Prez who's more concerned with jersey sales and squeezing everything out of the Core that won the 3 Cups.

Moved on from Sharp and Seabs? Sure, that might've worked. The things no one anticipated was Toews body starting to fail him right after winning the 3rd Cup and Hossa retiring due to a skin issue the following year.

Still have to get to the cap floor
- fattybeef

Having to get to the cap floor is no excuse for bad contracts and mediocre decision making.

Having to get to the cap floor is no excuse for bad contracts and mediocre decision making.
- Elbows15

So long as Davidson gets his contracts in order when it matters, these contracts over paying Foligno and D!ckinson don’t matter at all. Personally I think it’s a non issue.

So long as Davidson gets his contracts in order when it matters, these contracts over paying Foligno and D!ckinson don’t matter at all. Personally I think it’s a non issue.
- paulr

It's a complete non-issue. Those 2 contracts will have no impact in 3 years, and won't stop any FA signings of players that might contribute more.

No idea why others care so much on how much owners spend on payroll, as long as it doesn't compromise the on ice product. Last time I looked, the Blackhawks have the lowest Cap hit in the NHL. If anyone is 'throwing around nickels like manhole covers', it's Kyle from Chicago.

So long as Davidson gets his contracts in order when it matters, these contracts over paying Foligno and D!ckinson don’t matter at all. Personally I think it’s a non issue.
- paulr

Its always a non issue when your team only has 5 or 6 NHL players.

Thought you would be focused on the Bruins giving the Maple Leafs another pounding. Immensely enjoyable.

Mark Stone
Jack Eichel
Ryan O'Reilly (a few times with the second one being the pay off)
Jeff Carter
Mike Richards
TheChuck
Martin Havlat to the Hawks
Debrincat out of the Hawks.
Meier moved out in his prime
Joe Thornton traded to the Sharks
Danault out of Chicago
Hagel out of Chicago
Laine traded
Panarin out of Chicago
Saad a few times
Trocheck out of Florida for free basically
Buff and Ladd moved out of Chicago
Zibanejad to NYR
Fox demanded he be moved to NYR and its worked out pretty ok for them
Trouba is a boner but they went and grabbed him
Good old poop in a hallway Kevin Hayes went for a first round pick

Colorado has been extremely ruthless either not resigning guys or trading them since Sakic took over. Toews into Colorado was a good one. Letting Statsny and Kadri walk was bold. Trading Duchene and O'Reilly out.

Anyway - A lot of circumstances involved for teams moving on from a player. Either they don't want to pay them, can't pay them, it's an undesirable place like Calgary or Winnipeg, they just don't work out with the coach or team. If I didn't like my boss it could have nothing to do with my boss being a bad guy or me having an attitude problem some people just don't mesh.

If a player doesn't want to be there or the team sours on a player which could be for many reasons that don't involve an attitude problem and guys end up available.

If really good player available then the Hawks should go get them. The Bedard era is now not in 3-5 years.
- fattybeef

From the last blog.... Very envious of your memory, Fatty. Good list.

BUT, even though the list his helpful, the criteria was obtaining young established top 6 forwards for a late 1st. Many, most, of the list are players weren't young, were injury concerns or like Thorton, Denault or Zib had nowhere near established themselves.. You're taking a leap hoping Stone isn't a cripple after 2 yrs, same with Eichel. Carter and Richards were on the sh!t, Fox won't play for anyone else but NYR.

BUT, it does show it can happen. Tkachuk the big example that you can get a premiere top player in his prime. In this example he insisted on getting out so he's available. Meir too cuz of a sell off/rebuild/teardown. Apologies to those who don't dig Meir but I stand those who feel that way do NOT watch that team play and instead read score sheets. A wrecking ball with elite hands and can skate.

To you, Dots, when a player like this becomes available, it's TIME (talking to you BUF and CAR), you go get him and 99 times outa 100 hundred you win the trade no matter what you give up cuz this player is elite and checks 72 boxes, not just a fancy points machine.

A good post, Fats, from a very very good thread.

So long as Davidson gets his contracts in order when it matters, these contracts over paying Foligno and D!ckinson don’t matter at all. Personally I think it’s a non issue.
- paulr

Think of all the glorious cap space the Hawks would have without Foligno and D!ckinson.

Give your head a shake.

Its always a non issue when your team only has 5 or 6 NHL players.

Thought you would be focused on the Bruins giving the Maple Leafs another pounding. Immensely enjoyable.
- RickJ

I was watching the game. When it gets rough the regular season superstars have no interest in being there.

Thru 2 Byram with BUF's only goal, 3 shots......... great point in the last thread Rick, BUF didn't want to pay Mittlestadt and got a nice return for him.

Dot's, I'm with you 100%, I like the BUF style of rebuild as oppossed to say the LVG approach. I'll take my chances with young players like Cozens, Dahilin, Power (I'm lower on him than most though), Thompson-Byram (acquired in trades), Peterka all locked up long term (in only a couple yrs these 8 yr deals will be bargains) and are under 25!! You do not get these kinds, or as many, without doing it thru the draft.

Add Rosen, Kulich, Savoie, Bensons in the system and you got a Ted Nugent "look out", kinda roster that only the cap can derail..... BUT, IMO it's time for Adams to go get a Tkachuk, Meir type, a Hellybuyck in goal and put the needle on the record.

Think of all the glorious cap space the Hawks would have without Foligno and D!ckinson.

Give your head a shake.
- DarthKane

Its always a non issue when your team only has 5 or 6 NHL players.

Thought you would be focused on the Bruins giving the Maple Leafs another pounding. Immensely enjoyable.
- RickJ

When is goalie Holl do back?

When is goalie Holl do back?
- Mr Ricochet

Woll played tonight.