Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: The Day That Never Comes

In 1994 MLB lost me...an avid and dedicated baseball fan...and in 2012 I'm starting to have those same feelings again...and I'm deeply sickened!

The entire process it what irks me. Both sides are posturing and making proposals that they know either side is not going to accept. What's gone on up to this point has basically been window dressing. They haven't sat down and really started the real negotiations yet. Why is that? It doesn't have to be that way. Why did they wait so long to get to this point. Why wait until August to start talking? There is no legitimate reason why this couldn't have been settled by now, and Training camp opening getting ready for the Season. Sept 15th was a soft deadline.

come midnight I am going to become the biggest AHL, ECHL, CHL and international fan this side of idk what....until the lockout ends.....which who you listen to could end in Nov, Dec, Jan or be a full year again.

One thing about the lockout...it will ensure Gretzky's records stay intact forever....who is going to break goals or points records when there are shortened and missed seasons left and right....but I digress

also....this is a pissing match between the NHL and NHLPA...and the fans are the ones getting pissed on....who cares who is right or wrong, just get it done.

The entire process it what irks me. Both sides are posturing and making proposals that they know either side is not going to accept. What's gone on up to this point has basically been window dressing. They haven't sat down and really started the real negotiations yet. Why is that? It doesn't have to be that way. Why did they wait so long to get to this point. Why wait until August to start talking? There is no legitimate reason why this couldn't have been settled by now, and Training camp opening getting ready for the Season. Sept 15th was a soft deadline.
- MJL

Exactly. None of the positions or arguments of either side will change- just the calendar. Your comments and Bill's blog are depressingly and fully accurate.

The truth of the matter is as annoyed and angry as I am, the moment the puck drops I know I will dust off my pants and be ready to cheer them on again.

The entire process it what irks me. Both sides are posturing and making proposals that they know either side is not going to accept. What's gone on up to this point has basically been window dressing. They haven't sat down and really started the real negotiations yet. Why is that? It doesn't have to be that way. Why did they wait so long to get to this point. Why wait until August to start talking? There is no legitimate reason why this couldn't have been settled by now, and Training camp opening getting ready for the Season. Sept 15th was a soft deadline.
- MJL

I'm not sure that it's accurate to say that there's been nothing but window dressing up to this point.

The lack of any tangible compromise or real dialog has more to do with the owners not bargaining in good faith to begin with (lockout card was put on the table from the start), and the players tabling an initial offer that was reasonable by comparison, but left them with far too little room to negotiate with. With the owners quick to dismiss the principles of their proposal, the PA really had no choice but to dig in their heels right away.

However, it's safe to say that anything short of the PA kowtowing to the owners before Sept 15 would have resulted in this same lockout scenario... the owners want to raid the players' share AND make a power grab at players' rights... there's no other way to get both done without locking out the players and breaking the Union again.

As for the start date of negotiations, Bettman parades that out to use as a slight against the Union, but how exactly do you do all the necessary groundwork and conduct player meetings while players are still on the ice? The owners can meet at will during the season... the players don't exactly have that luxury.

This whole thing is a frakking disgrace.

1)Institute a 2 for 1 luxury tax over the current ceiling. (ie, if you go ten million over, you put 20 million in the charity box)
2)Lower the floor 20 million dollars.


Problem solved. Can we start playing now?

It's not like anyone knew how this script would play out, unfortunately.

Can anyone be surprised when Fehr took the helm, that 2004 would repeat itself?

Taking sides is meaningless, but again, the players under Goodenow were too "entitled" to accept a salary cap, and now, they are too entitled to accept anything that resembles a 50/50 split?

A 50/50 split would signify true partnership, not to mention the "guarenteed" contracts that they rightfully continue to earn, (one huge chip that the NFL players still cannot claim).
The players can cry to the press about Bettman, and can proudly cry unity all they wish, but what leverage do the players really have?
Be it Goodenow, or Fehr, bad advise is poison, and all the unity in the world will not give you the entitlement to ultimately tell your boss whom to write his checks to.

also....this is a pissing match between the NHL and NHLPA...and the fans are the ones getting pissed on....who cares who is right or wrong, just get it done.
- Pyzik

Wasn't it the players that started this by vetoing Realignment?

I don't understand lockouts, strikes or whatever. It all just seems to be big kids having a temper tantrum. Just work it out, isn't that what we tell our kids.

Also Paul McCann makes a great point praising Bobby Ryan for not going to Europe to steal a job from an already accomplished player overseas

As well, when the KHL states they will only accept top tier talent to accept jobs, wheres the so called unity that a say Malkin is showing playing overseas, to his 4th line union brother whom the KHL will not accept??

I don't see Fehr admonishing any players in not taking other players jobs, while some of his so called "union boys" sit.

Unreal

lets see how many current ex-flyer KHL players we can name.
ill get the party started:

Dmitry Afanasenkov
Pat "my nuts" Thoresen
Nikolai Zherdev
Lasse Kukkonen
Ossi Vaananen
Lukas Krajicek
Oskars Bartulius

Great write up Bill. Millionaires arguing with billionaires and both sides trying to make us feel bad for them

The players can cry to the press about Bettman, and can proudly cry unity all they wish, but what leverage do the players really have?
Be it Goodenow, or Fehr, bad advise is poison, and all the unity in the world will not give you the entitlement to ultimately tell your boss whom to write his checks to.
- puckhead17

I guess the players should just abandon principle and give the owners their druthers then...

50% players' share? Why not 40%? Why not 20%?

How about year-round dorm living and training? No guaranteed medical care? Player safety out the window? Rip up player contracts on a whim? Players on the hook for facilities and equipment?

Players subsidizing failing teams forever? Sure, let's expand the league again, and again, and again.

And why not indenture players to the teams that drafted them for life -- hell, why even have free-agency or any free market mechanisms for that matter? The owners write the checks, they can just collude to buy/sell/rent/trade the players at will. Hell, give the Habs preeminent domain over all Quebecois players again while we're at it. Wade Redden loaned to Siberia? I hope his family likes snow.

And while the owners are reaping in record profits due to all of the above, and have complete and utter control of their league, I'm sure they'll find some incentive other than money to improve the product on the ice, lower arena pricing, and increase fan access to the game. Right?

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: The Day That Never Comes
- bmeltzer

Very sad day, but props for the Metallica reference in the title of this blog!

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: The Day That Never Comes
- bmeltzer

this is depressing

I'm not sure that it's accurate to say that there's been nothing but window dressing up to this point.

The lack of any tangible compromise or real dialog has more to do with the owners not bargaining in good faith to begin with (lockout card was put on the table from the start), and the players tabling an initial offer that was reasonable by comparison, but left them with far too little room to negotiate with. With the owners quick to dismiss the principles of their proposal, the PA really had no choice but to dig in their heels right away.

However, it's safe to say that anything short of the PA kowtowing to the owners before Sept 15 would have resulted in this same lockout scenario... the owners want to raid the players' share AND make a power grab at players' rights... there's no other way to get both done without locking out the players and breaking the Union again.

As for the start date of negotiations, Bettman parades that out to use as a slight against the Union, but how exactly do you do all the necessary groundwork and conduct player meetings while players are still on the ice? The owners can meet at will during the season... the players don't exactly have that luxury.
- Tomahawk

It's absolutely accurate to say. Both sides have made proposals that they were well aware when making them, that the other side wouldn't accept it. That's a waste of time. The NHL Season was over in June. And Fehr and he has staff can meet with teams during the Season without a problem. With all the media tools available today for online meetings, conference calls, etc.

the fund for people who get laid off is called unemployment. It's been set up for generations now. Yes it sucks for them and its a shame. If the fans don't like it boycott. I'm gathering a group in Chicago right now if die hard hockey fans who are staging a boycott.

I guess the players should just abandon principle and give the owners their druthers then...

50% players' share? Why not 40%? Why not 20%?

How about year-round dorm living and training? No guaranteed medical care? Player safety out the window? Rip up player contracts on a whim? Players on the hook for facilities and equipment?

Players subsidizing failing teams forever? Sure, let's expand the league again, and again, and again.

And why not indenture players to the teams that drafted them for life -- hell, why even have free-agency or any free market mechanisms for that matter? The owners write the checks, they can just collude to buy/sell/rent/trade the players at will. Hell, give the Habs preeminent domain over all Quebecois players again while we're at it. Wade Redden loaned to Siberia? I hope his family likes snow.

And while the owners are reaping in record profits due to all of the above, and have complete and utter control of their league, I'm sure they'll find some incentive other than money to improve the product on the ice, lower arena pricing, and increase fan access to the game. Right?
- Tomahawk

Your reply is an incredible exagerration over the poster's point that your replying too.

Your reply is an incredible exagerration over the poster's point that your replying too.
- MJL

thank you,

he wasted a ton of space and time, to point out pretty much nothing

I guess the players should just abandon principle and give the owners their druthers then...

50% players' share? Why not 40%? Why not 20%?

How about year-round dorm living and training? No guaranteed medical care? Player safety out the window? Rip up player contracts on a whim? Players on the hook for facilities and equipment?

Players subsidizing failing teams forever? Sure, let's expand the league again, and again, and again.

And why not indenture players to the teams that drafted them for life -- hell, why even have free-agency or any free market mechanisms for that matter? The owners write the checks, they can just collude to buy/sell/rent/trade the players at will. Hell, give the Habs preeminent domain over all Quebecois players again while we're at it. Wade Redden loaned to Siberia? I hope his family likes snow.

And while the owners are reaping in record profits due to all of the above, and have complete and utter control of their league, I'm sure they'll find some incentive other than money to improve the product on the ice, lower arena pricing, and increase fan access to the game. Right?
- Tomahawk

wow! so the owners are leaving the players as poor broken down bums
good for you and your ridiculous points

Another thing, why are they only have short meetings, and minimal negotiations sessions at this point? They should be locked in a room for marathon sessions to try and hammer out a deal. The lockout is scheduled to begin later today, and there are no formal meeting scheduled? That's a kick in the balls to the fans.

the fund for people who get laid off is called unemployment. It's been set up for generations now. Yes it sucks for them and its a shame. If the fans don't like it boycott. I'm gathering a group in Chicago right now if die hard hockey fans who are staging a boycott.
- york2984

And what is that going to accomplish? All that's going to happen from that is that whoever is in your group will deprive themselves of the enjoyment of the game when they resume playing.

So does anyone know how many teams profits are actually contributing to all this "record revenue" that players and agents keep talking about? I keep seeing "the owners are making record profits" but is it really just like, 6 teams making all that money? Yea, there probably needs to be more revenue sharing, and I believe the league has said they'll go higher than now (and via negotiation could probably go higher), but how fair is it that the 6 teams that make all the profit subsidize the entire rest of the league? Are the Leafs and Rangers just expected to give up 70% of their profits to make it all work for everyone else? I think this still comes back to failed expansion. If the bottom 6-8 teams didn't exist, there probably wouldn't really be a problem here. The NHLPA certainly likes those extra teams though, as it's 6-8 teams worth of jobs available for players.

I don't know how the NHL compares to other leagues with regards to how many teams really pull in most of the profits. I guess I maybe read somewhere the Yankees give out tons and tons of money via revenue sharing, and maybe the players expect the Leafs to do the same thing.

I don't know... whatever it takes to get it done, just get it done.