Tim Panaccio: Should Have Pulled Fleury in 2nd

Tim Panaccio: Should Have Pulled Fleury in 2nd
- tpanaccio

Why be surprised at the Pens? They did the same things against the Flyers last year-allowed Giroux to take games over, left Fleury in to fall apart, played an undisciplined and careless game overall.


As for defensemen, the Flyers have never really been good at drafting and developing them. Jimmy Watson & Therien are the only two in nearly 46 years that spent more than 5 years with the team. It's not just Clarke and Holmgren that had to trade for defensemen.

Why be surprised at the Pens? They did the same things against the Flyers last year-allowed Giroux to take games over, left Fleury in to fall apart, played an undisciplined and careless game overall.


As for defensemen, the Flyers have never really been good at drafting and developing them. Jimmy Watson & Therien are the only two in nearly 46 years that spent more than 5 years with the team. It's not just Clarke and Holmgren that had to trade for defensemen.
- Jsaquella

Some teams, such as CHI, have drafted 6-7 d-men who are playing in the NHL since 1990. Flyers? Couple and NONE are playing for them unless you could Lauridsen's stretch of games. Gus was a FA out of college and could end up playing more games here than Pitkanen - if he is not traded.

I guess this is what Tim does in his spare time when his favorite team misses the playoffs.

Regardless, I've stopped defending Fleury. All be glad if he never starts another game for the Pens.

Some teams, such as CHI, have drafted 6-7 d-men who are playing in the NHL since 1990. Flyers? Couple and NONE are playing for them unless you could Lauridsen's stretch of games. Gus was a FA out of college and could end up playing more games here than Pitkanen - if he is not traded.
- tpanaccio

Very true. But the Flyers have never been a team that really had a homegrown defense corps. Even the Cup teams, guys like Jimmy Watson and Tom Bladon were drafted & developed by the Flyers, but Joe Watson, Ed van Impe, Andre Dupont and Barry Ashbee were developed elsewhere.

In the 1980's, the entire top 4 was acquired in trades-Howe for Linseman and picks and prospects, McCrimmon for Peeters, Crossman for Behn Wilson and Brad Marsh for Mel Bridgeman.

The Flyers have, through most of their history, been a team that trades for established defensemen, rather than growing them at home.

Nabby looks a lot like Bryza did, but bryz also played on a bad wheel. Regardless I think unless the pens play a smothering defensive team such as Boston any goalie is gonna look like Swiss cheese against them. As for Fleury... I'm glad to have Bryz and mason.

Very true. But the Flyers have never been a team that really had a homegrown defense corps. Even the Cup teams, guys like Jimmy Watson and Tom Bladon were drafted & developed by the Flyers, but Joe Watson, Ed van Impe, Andre Dupont and Barry Ashbee were developed elsewhere.

In the 1980's, the entire top 4 was acquired in trades-Howe for Linseman and picks and prospects, McCrimmon for Peeters, Crossman for Behn Wilson and Brad Marsh for Mel Bridgeman.

The Flyers have, through most of their history, been a team that trades for established defensemen, rather than growing them at home.
- Jsaquella

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how you get them -- it's IF you get them. Pronger helped in 2009-10 and no one cared where he came from. Except maybe Joffrey Lupul.

Why be surprised at the Pens? They did the same things against the Flyers last year-allowed Giroux to take games over, left Fleury in to fall apart, played an undisciplined and careless game overall.


As for defensemen, the Flyers have never really been good at drafting and developing them. Jimmy Watson & Therien are the only two in nearly 46 years that spent more than 5 years with the team. It's not just Clarke and Holmgren that had to trade for defensemen.
- Jsaquella

If I had to do a top 20 of Flyers homegrown defenseman, it would look something like this (I'm excluding Miro Dvorak, because he was already 31 and an established international hockey star when he was allowed to leave Czechoslovakia and the Flyers drafted him). Ratings are based only on Flyers portion of their career:

1. Jimmy Watson
2. Tom Bladon
3. Behn Wilson
4. Chris Therien
5. Dmitri Yushkevich
6. Joni Pitkänen
7. Janne Niinimaa
8. Thomas Eriksson
9. Glen Cochrane
10. Gord Murphy
11. Larry Goodenough
12. Kevin McCarthy
13. Andy Delmore (rookie free agent)
14. Dennis Seideberg
15. Murray Baron
16. Norm Barnes
17. Randy Jones (rookie free agent)
18. Kerry Huffman
19. Blake Wesley
20. Darren Rumble

The pickings got slim mighty fast.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how you get them -- it's IF you get them. Pronger helped in 2009-10 and no one cared where he came from. Except maybe Joffrey Lupul.
- Flyskippy

That's true. No one cares how the likes of Mark Howe, Eric Desjardins or Kimmo Timonen got to Philly, just that they did. But the best way to stay strong at a position is to be able to draft and develop from within.

If I had to do a top 20 of Flyers homegrown defenseman, it would look something like this (I'm excluding Miro Dvorak, because he was already 31 and an established international hockey star when he was allowed to leave Czechoslovakia and the Flyers drafted him). Ratings are based only on Flyers portion of their career:

1. Jimmy Watson
2. Tom Bladon
3. Behn Wilson
4. Chris Therien
5. Dmitri Yushkevich
6. Joni Pitkänen
7. Janne Niinimaa
8. Thomas Eriksson
9. Glen Cochrane
10. Gord Murphy
11. Larry Goodenough
12. Kevin McCarthy
13. Andy Delmore (rookie free agent)
14. Dennis Seideberg
15. Murray Baron
16. Norm Barnes
17. Randy Jones (rookie free agent)
18. Kerry Huffman
19. Blake Wesley
20. Darren Rumble

The pickings got slim mighty fast.
- bmeltzer

Definitely does a bit of a Thelma & Louise after the top 7-10

That's true. No one cares how the likes of Mark Howe, Eric Desjardins or Kimmo Timonen got to Philly, just that they did. But the best way to stay strong at a position is to be able to draft and develop from within.
- bmeltzer

I will say it's especially true in a cap world where an ELC comes in handy. Pre-2005? Not as much.

Definitely does a bit of a Thelma & Louise after the top 7-10
- Jsaquella

Seidenberg gets no love.

Oh god, I think I actually agree with Pistacchio.

Series is still 2-2. But it is EXACTLTY the same as last year. Only not down 3-1, and only consistently blowing 1 or 2 goal leads...not 3.

Pretty sure the Pens won 10-3 in game 5 last year.

Seidenberg gets no love.
- wolfhounds

The numerical rankings are based only on the Philadelphia portion of the player's career. As a young player, Seidenberg had a hard time staying in the Flyers' lineup and actually dressed in about 5-6 games a forward.

I guess this is what Tim does in his spare time when his favorite team misses the playoffs.

Regardless, I've stopped defending Fleury. All be glad if he never starts another game for the Pens.
- TheRollingPuck

tim's favorite team is actually the penguins

The numerical rankings are based only on the Philadelphia portion of the player's career. As a young player, Seidenberg had a hard time staying in the Flyers' lineup and actually dressed in about 5-6 games a forward.
- bmeltzer

One of the first visits to practice that I took M4 to was the time Ragnarsson broke Seidenberg's leg. Thought he, like Bobrovsky, deserved a longer look here. Of course, I thought that about Maneluk too.

Definitely does a bit of a Thelma & Louise after the top 7-10
- Jsaquella

bill / john:

right now, it looks like - i am not done researching - but the Flyers might be the ONLY NHL team that has ZERO drafted defensemen since 2000-12 who played a regular shift for them this season. Every team I have looked at so far has at least one; some clubs have produced 7 NHL d-men ... Flyers have produced 3, all of whom are somewhere else ... that is disgraceful

bill / john:

right now, it looks like - i am not done researching - but the Flyers might be the ONLY NHL team that has ZERO drafted defensemen since 2000-12 who played a regular shift for them this season. Every team I have looked at so far has at least one; some clubs have produced 7 NHL d-men ... Flyers have produced 3, all of whom are somewhere else ... that is disgraceful
- tpanaccio

Lauridsen does not count b/c he was a callup at the end. i am going whole season playing a regular shift

bill / john:

right now, it looks like - i am not done researching - but the Flyers might be the ONLY NHL team that has ZERO drafted defensemen since 2000-12 who played a regular shift for them this season. Every team I have looked at so far has at least one; some clubs have produced 7 NHL d-men ... Flyers have produced 3, all of whom are somewhere else ... that is disgraceful
- tpanaccio

I will be furious if they don't draft the best dman on the board this year. I realize the organizational plan has always been best player regardless of the position, but we really have to start stocking the cupboards with D. They are a premium in todays game.

The numerical rankings are based only on the Philadelphia portion of the player's career. As a young player, Seidenberg had a hard time staying in the Flyers' lineup and actually dressed in about 5-6 games a forward.
- bmeltzer

Right, that realization dawned on me after I posted after I realized Sbisa wasn't included in the list at all.

I will be furious if they don't draft the best dman on the board this year. I realize the organizational plan has always been best player regardless of the position, but we really have to start stocking the cupboards with D. They are a premium in todays game.
- Hextall271

Unless this guy is available because of his KHL situation/desire: Valeri Nichushkin.

If I had to do a top 20 of Flyers homegrown defenseman, it would look something like this (I'm excluding Miro Dvorak, because he was already 31 and an established international hockey star when he was allowed to leave Czechoslovakia and the Flyers drafted him). Ratings are based only on Flyers portion of their career:

1. Jimmy Watson
2. Tom Bladon
3. Behn Wilson
4. Chris Therien
5. Dmitri Yushkevich
6. Joni Pitkänen
7. Janne Niinimaa
8. Thomas Eriksson
9. Glen Cochrane
10. Gord Murphy
11. Larry Goodenough
12. Kevin McCarthy
13. Andy Delmore (rookie free agent)
14. Dennis Seideberg
15. Murray Baron
16. Norm Barnes
17. Randy Jones (rookie free agent)
18. Kerry Huffman
19. Blake Wesley
20. Darren Rumble

The pickings got slim mighty fast.
- bmeltzer

No love for Marc Strapon? He should get a spot based on his last name.

Also, although he only played a handful of games, sadly, I'd maybe put Tertyshny ahead of Wesley and Rumble.

I will be furious if they don't draft the best dman on the board this year. I realize the organizational plan has always been best player regardless of the position, but we really have to start stocking the cupboards with D. They are a premium in todays game.
- Hextall271

I want the best player, don't care what position. You can't miss on a first rounder. You better get a solid NHLer, at the very least.

I have no objection if the best player available is a defenseman, but If the best defenseman on the board at 11 is rated lower than 3 forwards, take the forward.

I want the best player, don't care what position. You can't miss on a first rounder. You better get a solid NHLer, at the very least.

I have no objection if the best player available is a defenseman, but If the best defenseman on the board at 11 is rated lower than 3 forwards, take the forward.
- Jsaquella

If Nichushkin drops to 11 do you take him over Pulock? Pulock is my number 1 at this point, his hockey IQ and offensive ability would be a breath of fresh air for the D Corp. Only Nichushkin dropping to 11, or another unforeseen drop, would make me consider otherwise.

If Nichushkin drops to 11 do you take him over Pulock? Pulock is my number 1 at this point, his hockey IQ and offensive ability would be a breath of fresh air for the D Corp. Only Nichushkin dropping to 11, or another unforeseen drop, would make me consider otherwise.
- GirouxForTheShow

Yes, I would take him ahead of Pulock. Little doubt in my mind about that.