Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Morin, Weber, Olympics

But, the sooner they rush morin the sooner the critics can be right about him being a bust AMIRITE?

I wonder what it would be like if he were just a draft choice with potential that people were interested in seeing pan out. That would be weird.

It's nice to hear Morin is taking forward steps in his progression. I believe he needs at least 1 more year in junior and then evaluate after that. The Flyers should no way rush him into the lineup next season.

On Weber I tend to agree that Nashville won't move him, and if they do they will ask and receive a kings ransom. As I've talked with jsaquella on twitter, I agree with him it would most likely take a Pronger-esque type deal like Schenn, Voracek/Simmonds, Morin and a 1st rounder to get him. That's a lot of talent to give up. Although it is a lit of talent to give up, I could certainly see the Flyers make that type deal.

It's nice to hear Morin is taking forward steps in his progression. I believe he needs at least 1 more year in junior and then evaluate after that. The Flyers should no way rush him into the lineup next season.

On Weber I tend to agree that Nashville won't move him, and if they do they will ask and receive a kings ransom. As I've talked with jsaquella on twitter, I agree with him it would most likely take a Pronger-esque type deal like Schenn, Voracek/Simmonds, Morin and a 1st rounder to get him. That's a lot of talent to give up. Although it is a lit of talent to give up, I could certainly see the Flyers make that type deal.
- tjp2033

I just feel what it would take to get Weber would set them even farther back. I think the offer sheet was their chance. I'm not saying I wouldn't entertain offers, but I don't think a deal that would make sense for both sides would happen.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Morin, Weber, Olympics
- bmeltzer

good blog sir

i hope morin makes the wjc team next year. would be fun to watch him play against that competition

Weber won't be moving any time soon because, as Bill mentioned, they've shelled out about 1/2 of his real dollars salary over the last 42 months. If they're okay with that, I don't think they're worried about the rest of the contract.

As for moving Morin, the Flyers were willing to move 4 straight first rounders (the Morin pick would have been the first) to acquire him, so I don't think they'd be opposed to it, depending on the rest of the package.

By the end of this season, the Preds will have already knocked off a prorated $56 million of $110 million contract.

Where does that number come from?

Personally speaking, though, I am in favor of being very conservative in the nurturing of a young defenseman. I'd be fine with the Flyers giving Morin one additional season in junior hockey and letting him take his shot at a spot on Team Canada at the 2015 World Junior Championships (he was not a serious WJC candidate this year). At age 20, I'd let his NHL entry-level contract start and bring him along slowly over his rookie and second pro seasons.

I would only want to see that process expedited if it's clear-cut that Morin is ready to handle the demands of the NHL game on a full-time basis. In truth, he's going to develop at his own pace. Rushing him to the Flyers won't make the desired end result come about sooner -- but it could hinder him.

Patience is in order with Morin. Over the long term, I think he's going to be a good NHL defenseman with some leadership potential. In the meantime, temper the short-term expectations.
- bmeltzer

If they're smart, they'll follow what you said down to the letter.

Of course, this is the Flyers we're talking about... if a guy looks even remotely close, they almost always err on the side of playing him asap. It seemed they were already tempted to keep Morin around last summer... not sure the level-headed dissenters can win that same battle two years in a row.

When a team goes into every season in "win now" mode, it's tough to oversee from beginning to end a process that routinely takes three to five years from a player's draft year.
- bmeltzer

In your opinion, do you think the Flyers are moving back into a "win now" mode, or are they closer to the "wait and see" approach we've seen since... well, I guess the Weber offer sheet?

Weber won't be moving any time soon because, as Bill mentioned, they've shelled out about 1/2 of his real dollars salary over the last 42 months. If they're okay with that, I don't think they're worried about the rest of the contract.

As for moving Morin, the Flyers were willing to move 4 straight first rounders (the Morin pick would have been the first) to acquire him, so I don't think they'd be opposed to it, depending on the rest of the package.
- jmatchett383

From a Preds pow: Weber deal is looking very good capwise now. Wonder what he would be getting if he made it to free agency today...

From a Preds pow: Weber deal is looking very good capwise now. Wonder what he would be getting if he made it to free agency today...
- Bearintheforest

7 years instead of 14.

Where does that number come from?
- Feanor

The $13m signing bonuses and $14m salary figures from this and last season.

Where does that number come from?
- Feanor

Think it's $54M... $27M salary + bonuses for 2012-13 and 2013-14... after his third $13M bonus this summer, 2/3 of his deal would have been paid out already. Kind of absurd.

Bill, any word on Stolarz? I know Laughton plays London tonight. It would have been cool to see Laughton face off against Stolarz.

The $13m signing bonuses and $14m salary figures from this and last season.
- BulliesPhan87

Capgeek says $14m salary includes the $13m signing bonus.

NHL Salary = The player's total salary in a given season, including signing bonuses.

Signing Bonus = The amount of NHL salary that is paid as a signing bonus in a given season.

If his signing bonuses were paid in addition to his salary then his contact would actually be worth $178 million over 14 years, not $110m, which would mean a cap hit of $12.714m instead of $7.857m.

Capgeek says $14m salary includes the $13m signing bonus.
- Feanor

So it does, good catch.

Capgeek says $14m salary includes the $13m signing bonus.

NHL Salary = The player's total salary in a given season, including signing bonuses.

Signing Bonus = The amount of NHL salary that is paid as a signing bonus in a given season.
- Feanor

So it should be $41M paid out by this summer, right? 13 + 13 + 13 + 1 + 1?

So it should be $41M paid out by this summer, right? 13 + 13 + 13 + 1 + 1?
- Tomahawk

I think so. Which is still a ton of money, of course.

As much as Weber would have been a great fit here I think we dodged a bullet by not getting saddled with one of the last crazy contracts before the lockout. If 37 year old Shea Weber retires in the 2023 offseason before the first of the three $1m season Holmgren tacked on to the end of the contact to lower the cap hit, the recapture penalty is a whopping $6.857m per year for three years.

I think so. Which is still a ton of money, of course.
- Feanor

$76M of the $110M contract will have been paid out by summer 2017 (year 5/14)... Snider and Homer are straight devious.

Think it's $54M... $27M salary + bonuses for 2012-13 and 2013-14... after his third $13M bonus this summer, 2/3 of his deal would have been paid out already. Kind of absurd.
- Tomahawk

Weber has received 28M in total for the 12/13 and 13/14 Seasons. He'll receive another 14M for the 14/15 Season.

Capgeek says $14m salary includes the $13m signing bonus.

NHL Salary = The player's total salary in a given season, including signing bonuses.

Signing Bonus = The amount of NHL salary that is paid as a signing bonus in a given season.

If his signing bonuses were paid in addition to his salary then his contact would actually be worth $178 million over 14 years, not $110m, which would mean a cap hit of $12.714m instead of $7.857m.
- Feanor

Correct, all a signing bonus is, is part of a players salary paid upfront. It is not in addition to his salary.

The reason why Nashville would trade Weber isn't financial. If they couldn't afford his deal, they wouldn't have matched it. The reason why they would trade him would be for hockey reasons. To try and bolster the team, especially the forward ranks. They have Josi, Jones, DelZotto, and Ellis. They need to have more balance.

I think so. Which is still a ton of money, of course.

As much as Weber would have been a great fit here I think we dodged a bullet by not getting saddled with one of the last crazy contracts before the lockout. If 37 year old Shea Weber retires in the 2023 offseason before the first of the three $1m season Holmgren tacked on to the end of the contact to lower the cap hit, the recapture penalty is a whopping $6.857m per year for three years.
- Feanor

If Weber was traded to the Flyers this off season, and he retires when he's 38 at the end of the 22/23 Season. The Flyers would have to pay a recapture penalty of $2,761,905 for Seasons 2023-24 through 2025-26, not $6.857M

But, the sooner they rush morin the sooner the critics can be right about him being a bust AMIRITE?

I wonder what it would be like if he were just a draft choice with potential that people were interested in seeing pan out. That would be weird.
- funmaster18

Well we all know the Flyers don't know what they're doing, so why put off the inevitable?

Giroux, Voracek, Couturier, Schenn, Laughton, Morin, Hagg, Ghostisbehere, Alt, Simmonds, Hartnell, Lecavalier, Read, Coburn, Grossmann, Timonen, Meszaros, and Gustafsson

for

Weber, 2014 2nd

Akeson - Akeson - Akeson
Akeson - Akeson - Akeson
Akeson - Akeson - Akeson
Roshill - Hall - Rinaldo

Weber - Lauridsen
Lauridsen - Lauridsen
Lauridsen - Akeson