Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Clean Out Day, Giroux, and More

Hey Bill. Thanks again for another great year and great conversation. Like many, I am starting to wonder if we will ever get out of this rut. There is a problem with this team that does not seem to be fixable by a coach. They just dont come out ready to play. Its been their MO for a few years now. This year, it cost them a first round series home ice and then the series win, which was there for the taking. Can you do some talking about that?

to clarify, I'm just saying that they seem to wait until late in the game to really get it going as opposed to coming out, taking a lead and defending it. Every team has a personality and this seems to be their character flaw.

Let me say i am not a P.K. Subban fan but after watching him more I would offer sheet him or make a move for him if Montreal can't get him signed. Young, good skater, dynamic, physical defenseman with a cannon. I know it is a pipe dream but we thought the same thing about weber.

to clarify, I'm just saying that they seem to wait until late in the game to really get it going as opposed to coming out, taking a lead and defending it. Every team has a personality and this seems to be their character flaw.
- edmac812

I totally agree with you and I am looking forward to Bill's comment on his thoughts regarding the personal on this team.
It just seemed like they rarely came out in 1st period and took control of a game. Is a lack of confidence being afraid to make a games first turnover? Who knows, but they definitely have to do something about their lack of success 5-5 and of course our dream of acquiring that almost impossible asset a # 1 Dman.

I agree with the above. Can you please shed some light on the slow starting or reactive rather than pro active personality?
Also Bill, what is the website that gauges the level of opponent for a particular player? I remember you referencing in a year ago in regard to Coots and Schenn.
I get into disagreements all the time about Coburn and Timonen, some people don't realize the skill level of the opponents they face night in and night out.

[quote=3flyerkids]

Right. So it's not just me? Thats what Im seeing. What ever happened to getting a good jump and then locking it down defensively? Then again "locking it down defensively" doesnt seem to be the strong suit of this defense.

I think Subban would be a worthwhile pursuit for the Flyers. He's still very young for a defenseman and will only get better. He has a lot of detractors considering his talent. What's the knock on this guy?

I think Subban would be a worthwhile pursuit for the Flyers. He's still very young for a defenseman and will only get better. He has a lot of detractors considering his talent. What's the knock on this guy?
- 2731color

He lets his emotions get the best of him. He is incredibly talented and plays great on most nights. He's good defensively and a willing hitter. He's short, but very strong on his skates.

He's a #1 dman, but he needs to control himself more. I think he's going to be asking for HUGE money from Montreal too. I'm not sure they're willing to go that route.

Right. So it's not just me? Thats what Im seeing. What ever happened to getting a good jump and then locking it down defensively? Then again "locking it down defensively" doesnt seem to be the strong suit of this defense.
- edmac812

We'll they did lead the NHL in 3rd period comebacks which is good but something I would rather not be the case. Coming out and taking charge would be ideal and then if we get that " lock down Dman" it would be a different story.
I don't know the stats but I am willing to bet they were out shot in most of their 1st periods.

I agree with the above. Can you please shed some light on the slow starting or reactive rather than pro active personality?
Also Bill, what is the website that gauges the level of opponent for a particular player? I remember you referencing in a year ago in regard to Coots and Schenn.
I get into disagreements all the time about Coburn and Timonen, some people don't realize the skill level of the opponents they face night in and night out.
- Gagnewest

Behindthenet.ca has a "quality of opposition" computation, as do a some other sites. I am not sure of the exact methodology for deriving that calculation but it is still an interesting comparative even though there is some inherent subjectivity in a sport that is truly team vs. team.

He lets his emotions get the best of him. He is incredibly talented and plays great on most nights. He's good defensively and a willing hitter. He's short, but very strong on his skates.

He's a #1 dman, but he needs to control himself more. I think he's going to be asking for HUGE money from Montreal too. I'm not sure they're willing to go that route.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think they will break the bank for him, especially if they go far in the playoffs. When he scored that first goal last night he wasn't jumping around like he usually does. Maybe he is finally getting it, that he has to tone down the emotions and act like he has done this before.

Also Bill, what is the website that gauges the level of opponent for a particular player? I remember you referencing in a year ago in regard to Coots and Schenn.
- Gagnewest

http://www.extraskater.co...os=S&team=phi&season=2013

The metric is based on % of the opposing players ice-time for their team, weighted for time spent against. Higher the number, the better, since better players tend to get the most ice time.

You can also look at F and D quality of opponents individually in the 2nd and 3rd columns. Top D will face better forwards (TotTm% F QoC), top forwards will face better dmen (TotTm% D QoC).

And you're right... 44/5 tend to see the toughest matchups.

http://www.extraskater.co...os=S&team=phi&season=2013

The metric is based on % of the opposing players ice-time for their team, weighted for time spent against. Higher the number, the better, since better players tend to get the most ice time.

You can also look at F and D quality of opponents individually in the 2nd and 3rd columns. Top D will face better forwards (TotTm% F QoC), top forwards will face better dmen (TotTm% D QoC).

And you're right... 44/5 tend to see the toughest matchups.
- Tomahawk

But who sees the easiest match ups?

[quote=3flyerkids]

He has his ups and downs still, but he's gotten better in that department. There were times this year where Montreal benched him. I think most Habs fans would agree that Markov is just as important or more important than Subban.

But who sees the easiest match ups?
- PhillySportsGuy

Riley Cote?

He lets his emotions get the best of him. He is incredibly talented and plays great on most nights. He's good defensively and a willing hitter. He's short, but very strong on his skates.

He's a #1 dman, but he needs to control himself more. I think he's going to be asking for HUGE money from Montreal too. I'm not sure they're willing to go that route.
- PhillySportsGuy

He wanted huge money the last time, but settled on the bridge deal. This is gonna be his payday.

One trade that I might like to see is Coburn and B Schenn for Cody Ceci. I have watched Ceci in a couple of games with the Sens, and he seems like a good puck mover, a skater, and has great hockey sense. He is young, and will learn to use his size over time. The HNews has a good review of him, but I wonder if the Sens would even consider that trade.
I would also consider trading for the "other" McGinn. He has some grit, and seems to know to go to the front of the net. I realize that he is not a top line guy, but he adds some size, some grit, and can actually score a few goals.
Just thinking out loud

He wanted huge money the last time, but settled on the bridge deal. This is gonna be his payday.
- tangent_man

Exactly. I have a feeling their negotiations are going to go on forever. If I were the Flyers, I would wait and hope he reaches ufa. Clear the necessary cap space and back the truck up.

He wanted huge money the last time, but settled on the bridge deal. This is gonna be his payday.
- tangent_man

He's going to get it from them, too, especially after performances like last night.

Forget Subban, ain't happening.

Riley Cote?
- Tomahawk

Coaching the Phantoms is a tougher assignment than what the other guy gets on a nightly basis

He's going to get it from them, too, especially after performances like last night.

Forget Subban, ain't happening.
- Tomahawk

Yeah, they won't be letting him go.

Exactly. I have a feeling their negotiations are going to go on forever. If I were the Flyers, I would wait and hope he reaches ufa. Clear the necessary cap space and back the truck up.
- PhillySportsGuy

As much as I'd love to see him in O&B, I have a feeling he'll be a career Hab.

* Another Giroux-related thought: After twice spurning an eventual Hart Trophy finalist for the Olympics, I wonder if Hockey Canada had the audacity to ask Giroux if he wants to play in the World Championships. Giroux did so for Canada last summer, along with Wayne Simmonds, Matt Read and Luke Schenn.

He should tell them to sit and spin.

He's going to get it from them, too, especially after performances like last night.

Forget Subban, ain't happening.
- Tomahawk

I know he wants huge money but he is the type of dynamic d they need. Also you don't know if he really wants to stay in Montreal. I understand the costs but certain guys you just do it for. I don't even really like Subban but I would do it if it meant making the Flyers better.