Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Undersized Skill in 2014 Draft, Flyers Quick Hits

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Undersized Skill in 2014 Draft, Flyers Quick Hits
- bmeltzer

Should be some quality players available for the Flyers to pick from at #17

Should be some quality players available for the Flyers to pick from at #17
- ob18

No doubt, though I'd be cool with trading down 10 spots or so if it lands them an additional 2nd rounder either this year or next

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Undersized Skill in 2014 Draft, Flyers Quick Hits
- bmeltzer

The Flyers have had pretty good luck with the first pick so I'm not that concerned. If Hextall is leaning towards size, however, Bill's right. The majority of the early picks are average to below average in size.

But this kid, Tuch, still intrigues me. He has size, hands, good shot, seemingly what we could use on the wing.

The Flyers have had pretty good luck with the first pick so I'm not that concerned. If Hextall is leaning towards size, however, Bill's right. The majority of the early picks are average to below average in size.

But this kid, Tuch, still intrigues me. He has size, hands, good shot, seemingly what we could use on the wing.
- 77rams

Hands are actually a bit of a question mark. At the junior level, he has often needed multiple scoring chances to bag one goal and has not been all that productive offensively when not playing with the likes of Eichel, Milano or Larkin as his main linemates. The rest is there, however.

Bill,

Do you know anything about Anton Karlsson? Could he be there in the 2nd Round for the Flyers or do you think he will be gone before that. I like his game and was just curious of your opinion.

Just thinking about some of the stuff I read yesterday and I freely admit I'm totally effing confused. I need someone to walk me through the answer here:

The hypothesis is that the Flyers, if they aren't going to win the Cup this season or next, should jettison their veteran pieces for picks in order to have a better/more open window of contention a few years down the line.

My questions are these:

1. Didn't we do that when Richards, Carter and Bob got moved for young players and the picks the Flyers used to get Couturier, Stolarz, Cousins and Ghost, as well as young players in Voracek, Simmonds and Brayden Schenn?

2. If the answer to that question is yes, then how would us doing another rebuild be any different two years from now, when any number of the fanbase can't wait to dangle Schenn in a deal before he is fully developed?

3. How are we reconciling the fact that some of us want to shed veteran pieces for this new rebuild...but we just re-signed a 39-year-old defenseman? And by doing so, why did anyone want that to happen if you just want to trade his defense partner?

I guess I just don't understand what we are wanting, here. We've already started the rebuild -- we're two-plus years into it! They've identified a goalie, and there's only one Top 9 forward over 27 years old. The defense is lagging a bit, but they've spent the last two years drafting them with high picks and they are developing.

Again, I'm just confused. I don't get how people want to shed Brayden Schenn AND Braydon Coburn -- one is a young player who we don't want to wait to see develop, and the other is a top -pair defenseman that you need to win now -- and there are some of us who want to move them both!

How does that even work?

Bill,

Do you know anything about Anton Karlsson? Could he be there in the 2nd Round for the Flyers or do you think he will be gone before that. I like his game and was just curious of your opinion.
- J35Bacher

Talked about him here: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=60448

If the Flyers go for a European forward in the second round range, one I like in particular is Finnish forward Juho Lammikko.

How does that even work?
- AllInForFlyers

In my opinion, it doesn't.

Talked about him here: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=60448

If the Flyers go for a European forward in the second round range, one I like in particular is Finnish forward Juho Lammikko.
- bmeltzer

Sorry I missed that. Thanks.

I guess i am just hoping that Hextall and Berube turn this Flyers team into one that is hard to play against. Teams like Anaheim and SJ and LA are just tough teams to play. I loved when the Flyers used to be a tough game win or lose. Not just the fighting but a team that made you earn space. Watching LA they make you earn space and finish checks and plays. That is all i am hoping for.

Just thinking about some of the stuff I read yesterday and I freely admit I'm totally effing confused. I need someone to walk me through the answer here:

The hypothesis is that the Flyers, if they aren't going to win the Cup this season or next, should jettison their veteran pieces for picks in order to have a better/more open window of contention a few years down the line.

My questions are these:

1. Didn't we do that when Richards, Carter and Bob got moved for young players and the picks the Flyers used to get Couturier, Stolarz, Cousins and Ghost, as well as young players in Voracek, Simmonds and Brayden Schenn?

2. If the answer to that question is yes, then how would us doing another rebuild be any different two years from now, when any number of the fanbase can't wait to dangle Schenn in a deal before he is fully developed?

3. How are we reconciling the fact that some of us want to shed veteran pieces for this new rebuild...but we just re-signed a 39-year-old defenseman? And by doing so, why did anyone want that to happen if you just want to trade his defense partner?

I guess I just don't understand what we are wanting, here. We've already started the rebuild -- we're two-plus years into it! They've identified a goalie, and there's only one Top 9 forward over 27 years old. The defense is lagging a bit, but they've spent the last two years drafting them with high picks and they are developing.

Again, I'm just confused. I don't get how people want to shed Brayden Schenn AND Braydon Coburn -- one is a young player who we don't want to wait to see develop, and the other is a top -pair defenseman that you need to win now -- and there are some of us who want to move them both!

How does that even work?
- AllInForFlyers

Pretty sure this is sarcasm, but you're not confused. You have it right in my opinion. I keep reading about waiting for the young defenseman to develop. That could take a number of years, for that to happen. To the point where they can take on large responsibilities on the team. Meanwhile prime years of player such as Giroux and Voracek go down the drain. Flyers don't need to rebuild. They need to tweak.

Pretty sure this is sarcasm, but you're not confused. You have it right in my opinion. I keep reading about waiting for the young defenseman to develop. That could take a number of years, for that to happen. To the point where they can take on large responsibilities on the team. Meanwhile prime years of player such as Giroux and Voracek go down the drain. Flyers don't need to rebuild. They need to tweak.
- MJL

As long as Snider is around I don'tever think there will be a full rebuild. I am one who does like Snider as he is one of the few owners to just open his check book to try and win. Good or bad he is always trying to bring a cup to the fans. I know people rip him and think he makes all the calls. The only real call I heard him make was to bring in a goalie after the debacle of the playoffs but it really wasn't anything different then the fans wanted. Yes Bryz didn't work but Snider tried to fix something that has plagued us for years.

I do think that once Snider has moved on that the new owner might commit to sometinhg like that. Not sure what happens if snider dies but i could see a new owner putting his stamp on things and trying to take the team in a new direction. Not sure how i feel if we would have to be EDM for 6 years.

Hands are actually a bit of a question mark. At the junior level, he has often needed multiple scoring chances to bag one goal and has not been all that productive offensively when not playing with the likes of Eichel, Milano or Larkin as his main linemates. The rest is there, however.
- bmeltzer

He did underachieve a bit an the under 18, but I'd be wiling to overlook that. It was only a seven game stretch.

Pretty sure this is sarcasm, but you're not confused. You have it right in my opinion. I keep reading about waiting for the young defenseman to develop. That could take a number of years, for that to happen. To the point where they can take on large responsibilities on the team. Meanwhile prime years of player such as Giroux and Voracek go down the drain. Flyers don't need to rebuild. They need to tweak.
- MJL

Completely agree. I do not get the notion of "rebuilding". Why would anyone tear down a team that can compete as currently constructed and is young for the most part?

The Flyers need to be more like Detroit not Edmonton. Hold onto draft picks and strengthen the system. If you have in house replacements your options expand greatly and you save money. That money can be used on high end players acquired via trade or free agency.

Pretty sure this is sarcasm, but you're not confused. You have it right in my opinion. I keep reading about waiting for the young defenseman to develop. That could take a number of years, for that to happen. To the point where they can take on large responsibilities on the team. Meanwhile prime years of player such as Giroux and Voracek go down the drain. Flyers don't need to rebuild. They need to tweak.
- MJL

No, I'm totally serious -- I am baffled as hell at how anyone wants to start another rebuild. That was clearly an on-the-fly teardown when they traded Richards/Carter and then let Jagr walk the next offseason so Voracek would be 1RW, wasn't it?

My thing is this: You didn't re-sign Timonen to risk missing the freaking playoffs. Because you could do that without him, without risking incurring the bonus overages for next year.

Ron Hextall's gonna do what he thinks is best, and I realize I'm just a fan. But I'm not trying to hear this "rebuild again" poop -- rebuild into what? The 2014-2015 Flyers are exactly what a rebuild looks like!

No, I'm totally serious -- I am baffled as hell at how anyone wants to start another rebuild. That was clearly an on-the-fly teardown when they traded Richards/Carter and then let Jagr walk the next offseason so Voracek would be 1RW, wasn't it?

My thing is this: You didn't re-sign Timonen to risk missing the freaking playoffs. Because you could do that without him, without risking incurring the bonus overages for next year.

Ron Hextall's gonna do what he thinks is best, and I realize I'm just a fan. But I'm not trying to hear this "rebuild again" poop -- rebuild into what? The 2014-2015 Flyers are exactly what a rebuild looks like!
- AllInForFlyers

A "rebuild" is what the Sabres look like. I get what you are saying though.

Talked about him here: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=60448

If the Flyers go for a European forward in the second round range, one I like in particular is Finnish forward Juho Lammikko.
- bmeltzer

I'd have to take a hard look at Luc Snuggerud.

Great bloodlines (former Flyer uncle Dave). But I just really like to say "Snuggerud".

In my opinion, it doesn't.
- bmeltzer

I am hopeful i'm not just losing my mind...i don't mind patience, and i don't mind building, but there has to be a plan.

Trading Schenn AND Coburn...I get that the return would be the thing, but man, if it's just picks and more young players, I would have serious questions about what the plan is, exactly.

No, I'm totally serious -- I am baffled as hell at how anyone wants to start another rebuild. That was clearly an on-the-fly teardown when they traded Richards/Carter and then let Jagr walk the next offseason so Voracek would be 1RW, wasn't it?

My thing is this: You didn't re-sign Timonen to risk missing the freaking playoffs. Because you could do that without him, without risking incurring the bonus overages for next year.

Ron Hextall's gonna do what he thinks is best, and I realize I'm just a fan. But I'm not trying to hear this "rebuild again" poop -- rebuild into what? The 2014-2015 Flyers are exactly what a rebuild looks like!
- AllInForFlyers

I think what they Flyers will be for a couple years is a fliud reworking. As guys like Schenn, if still around, and Couturier grow then players like Hartnell and grossmann will try to be moved. You can already kind of see it in place. Kimmo is most likely playing his last year and even if he wanted to play again next year i don't think he will be back. This is a bridge year on d. This is a year to let guys like Ghostisbiere Hagg and Morin develop a little more so next year maybe one or possibly two can step in without the FLyers trying to limit the growing pains.

Just thinking about some of the stuff I read yesterday and I freely admit I'm totally effing confused. I need someone to walk me through the answer here:

The hypothesis is that the Flyers, if they aren't going to win the Cup this season or next, should jettison their veteran pieces for picks in order to have a better/more open window of contention a few years down the line.

My questions are these:

1. Didn't we do that when Richards, Carter and Bob got moved for young players and the picks the Flyers used to get Couturier, Stolarz, Cousins and Ghost, as well as young players in Voracek, Simmonds and Brayden Schenn?

2. If the answer to that question is yes, then how would us doing another rebuild be any different two years from now, when any number of the fanbase can't wait to dangle Schenn in a deal before he is fully developed?

3. How are we reconciling the fact that some of us want to shed veteran pieces for this new rebuild...but we just re-signed a 39-year-old defenseman? And by doing so, why did anyone want that to happen if you just want to trade his defense partner?

I guess I just don't understand what we are wanting, here. We've already started the rebuild -- we're two-plus years into it! They've identified a goalie, and there's only one Top 9 forward over 27 years old. The defense is lagging a bit, but they've spent the last two years drafting them with high picks and they are developing.

Again, I'm just confused. I don't get how people want to shed Brayden Schenn AND Braydon Coburn -- one is a young player who we don't want to wait to see develop, and the other is a top -pair defenseman that you need to win now -- and there are some of us who want to move them both!

How does that even work?
- AllInForFlyers

If you're truly going to do a rebuild, the first trade you make is Claude Giroux for a massive return.

Giroux is 26. He's not going to be in his prime forever. Eventually, his production will decline. My view is, walk the fine line and build for now and the future. There's no need to gut the team and waste the primes of Giroux, Voracek & others

I am hopeful i'm not just losing my mind...i don't mind patience, and i don't mind building, but there has to be a plan.

Trading Schenn AND Coburn...I get that the return would be the thing, but man, if it's just picks and more young players, I would have serious questions about what the plan is, exactly.
- AllInForFlyers

To me trading Coburn says you are not concerned about winning this year. He is the only defenseman we have that could be considered a #1.

Trading either Schenn would be questionable depending upon the return. B. Schenn for Seth Jones or any other young defenseman of that caliber is great for now and the future. B. Schenn for Kesler is stupid.

So it all depends upon the return.

I am hopeful i'm not just losing my mind...i don't mind patience, and i don't mind building, but there has to be a plan.

Trading Schenn AND Coburn...I get that the return would be the thing, but man, if it's just picks and more young players, I would have serious questions about what the plan is, exactly.
- AllInForFlyers

Can I see them moving either/both Schenn bros...sure.

Coburn? Nu-uh.

Talked about him here: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=60448

If the Flyers go for a European forward in the second round range, one I like in particular is Finnish forward Juho Lammikko.
- bmeltzer

Was reading about him last night.

No, I'm totally serious -- I am baffled as hell at how anyone wants to start another rebuild. That was clearly an on-the-fly teardown when they traded Richards/Carter and then let Jagr walk the next offseason so Voracek would be 1RW, wasn't it?

My thing is this: You didn't re-sign Timonen to risk missing the freaking playoffs. Because you could do that without him, without risking incurring the bonus overages for next year.

Ron Hextall's gonna do what he thinks is best, and I realize I'm just a fan. But I'm not trying to hear this "rebuild again" poop -- rebuild into what? The 2014-2015 Flyers are exactly what a rebuild looks like!
- AllInForFlyers

I agree, I think this team just needs a couple " tweaks". They were one win away from advancing. Sure their 5 on 5 , overall team speed, and lack of a top D needs to be addressed. But " taking a step back" I believe is the term Hextall used,kind of scares me. This is a solid core, with great D prospects, and a goalie! Let's hope Hextall's step back is not too far back and he can " tweak" this team sooner than later.

Pretty sure this is sarcasm, but you're not confused. You have it right in my opinion. I keep reading about waiting for the young defenseman to develop. That could take a number of years, for that to happen. To the point where they can take on large responsibilities on the team. Meanwhile prime years of player such as Giroux and Voracek go down the drain. Flyers don't need to rebuild. They need to tweak.
- MJL

He brings up good points though. I think the only way the Flyers move youth is they receive Youth back......ie a Braydon Schenn for Evander Kane type move....or a Sean Couturier for Tyler Myers type thing....Not saying I would do either, but you get the jist.....I mean the Flyers seemed to always use youth as poker chips .....they went all in chasing the holy grail....I mean Justin Williams for Andrei Markov ? I didn't even like it when it happened....but I understood Clarke's rational. I think the "new" NHL and it's salary cap along with entry level contracts has made the Flyers change course....Those young guys with low salaries are key for teams to compete....I mean look at LA !!!! They had 4-5 guys that really produced that were at the bottom of the scale pay wise.....