Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier and the Player Development Conundrum

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier and the Player Development Conundrum
- bmeltzer

Patience, Patience, Patience.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier and the Player Development Conundrum
- bmeltzer

The issue with Couturier is more a matter of finishing the chances he does generate. His developmental path has seen him lift such a heavy defensive load, it's easy to see how his confidence could be affected negatively, because he simply didn't get a lot of chances in his first two seasons.

Now, finally, at the end of this season, he's been used in a more even role, where he gets more offensive zone starts and better linemates(in terms of offensive abilities).

Couturier is still a very good defensive center and does that role regardless of production. But if he's going to be truly invaluable, he's got to start converting some of the glorious offensive chances he's been getting.

I just think Couturier will fall anywhere between a Brandon Sutter and Jordan Staal type. I certainly don't see him taking his game to a Bergeron type level. Just not enough explosiveness to his game, has a hard time creating room for himself. If you look at the previous players I mentioned, their best offensive years came when they were 19-22 years old.

Nothing wrong with having a premier shutdown center on the team. But in my opinion, the flyers shouldn't write in coots into the 2nd line center slot for years to come. They can simply do better.

The issue with Couturier is more a matter of finishing the chances he does generate. His developmental path has seen him lift such a heavy defensive load, it's easy to see how his confidence could be affected negatively, because he simply didn't get a lot of chances in his first two seasons.

Now, finally, at the end of this season, he's been used in a more even role, where he gets more offensive zone starts and better linemates(in terms of offensive abilities).

Couturier is still a very good defensive center and does that role regardless of production. But if he's going to be truly invaluable, he's got to start converting some of the glorious offensive chances he's been getting.
- Jsaquella

As frustrating as it is to see him not put the puck away in those chances, I think it's a good sign seeing him creating/ getting these opportunities. I'd be a lot more worried about his development if he was 24, 25 years old, hadn't broken 40 points yet, and he was never seeming to get chances. I'm less worried about coots than I am about schenn.

The issue with Couturier is more a matter of finishing the chances he does generate. His developmental path has seen him lift such a heavy defensive load, it's easy to see how his confidence could be affected negatively, because he simply didn't get a lot of chances in his first two seasons.

Now, finally, at the end of this season, he's been used in a more even role, where he gets more offensive zone starts and better linemates(in terms of offensive abilities).

Couturier is still a very good defensive center and does that role regardless of production. But if he's going to be truly invaluable, he's got to start converting some of the glorious offensive chances he's been getting.
- Jsaquella

I also think if he gets some consistent offensive wingers it would help. I know he has Read but most of the time the other winger hasn't been good. And this year both Read and Umberger were terrible early on.

You could see his game last year for a while when it was Read and Downie. I think moving forward he would benefit from a more skilled left winger.

I just think Couturier will fall anywhere between a Brandon Sutter and Jordan Staal type. I certainly don't see him taking his game to a Bergeron type level. Just not enough explosiveness to his game, has a hard time creating room for himself. If you look at the previous players I mentioned, their best offensive years came when they were 19-22 years old.

Nothing wrong with having a premier shutdown center on the team. But in my opinion, the flyers shouldn't write in coots into the 2nd line center slot for years to come. They can simply do better.
- Just5

Defintely not. He is not 2nd line talent material, offensively. (Here come the "Couts produces at even strength" guys). Have to use your eyes too....he is clearly lacking in the offensive skill department.

I also think if he gets some consistent offensive wingers it would help. I know he has Read but most of the time the other winger hasn't been good. And this year both Read and Umberger were terrible early on.

You could see his game last year for a while when it was Read and Downie. I think moving forward he would benefit from a more skilled left winger.
- J35Bacher

Sure, he could definitely use better wingers than Read and Umby

Can we all just admit that Couturier is an elite shut down forward and stop pressuring him for offense. The kids is NOT a second line center. Unfortunately Schenn and Laughton are also not second line centers; third and forth liners maybe. The organization still needs to fill this 2nd line center position among many other roster holes.

Defintely not. He is not 2nd line talent material, offensively. (Here come the "Couts produces at even strength" guys). Have to use your eyes too....he is clearly lacking in the offensive skill department.
- GOA88

I wouldn't say he's lacking in skill, as much as he's lacking in confidence. I think he's got all the physical tools, now he just needs to be all there mentally.

As frustrating as it is to see him not put the puck away in those chances, I think it's a good sign seeing him creating/ getting these opportunities. I'd be a lot more worried about his development if he was 24, 25 years old, hadn't broken 40 points yet, and he was never seeming to get chances. I'm less worried about coots than I am about schenn.
- benjichronic

It IS a good sign that he's getting chances. I'm not worried about his development, really, but that's the biggest issue.

He does need to work on his skating and getting stronger, but to justify the untouchable status he has with some, he needs to start doing a better job in finishing those chances. He's shown flashes of it, just has to do it more consistently.

Schenn, conversely gets a lot more offensive usage(or has to this point of their respective careers) and hasn't produced a ton either. His developmental track has been different because he's bounced from position to position, rather than being used in a heavy defensive role. But he gets a ton of OZ starts, is used with talented offensive players and needs to be more consistent.

When Couturier's playing bad, he's flubbing chances. When Schenn is playing bad, he's next to invisible. That has to change for Schenn.

Just a thought on Couturier, Would anyone dial back the draft and select Dougie Hamilton instead of him?

I see it this way. How old were players who were drafted in similar spots when they started putting it all together? Jake Voracek comes to mind.


We always forget he was REALLY young when he made the team. His development has run an opposite course than your "normal" development. He was a young kid who played defense like a seasoned vet, and we have to wait for his offensive game to come in to its own.

He is 22. If he still isn't producing at 25 or 26, then we have a problem. Patience is key.

Just a thought on Couturier, Would anyone dial back the draft and select Dougie Hamilton instead of him?
- Daceroni

as of right now , yes. Maybe next season, or the year after, maybe not so much.

Can we all just admit that Couturier is an elite shut down forward and stop pressuring him for offense. The kids is NOT a second line center. Unfortunately Schenn and Laughton are also not second line centers; third and forth liners maybe. The organization still needs to fill this 2nd line center position among many other roster holes.
- redcoat75

So for the record, you are stating that Couturier, BSchenn and Laughton will never be 2nd line centers in the NHL?

I see it this way. How old were players who were drafted in similar spots when they started putting it all together? Jake Voracek comes to mind.


We always forget he was REALLY young when he made the team. His development has run an opposite course than your "normal" development. He was a young kid who played defense like a seasoned vet, and we have to wait for his offensive game to come in to its own.

He is 22. If he still isn't producing at 25 or 26, then we have a problem. Patience is key.
- MBFlyerfan

THANK YOU MB

I see it this way. How old were players who were drafted in similar spots when they started putting it all together? Jake Voracek comes to mind.


We always forget he was REALLY young when he made the team. His development has run an opposite course than your "normal" development. He was a young kid who played defense like a seasoned vet, and we have to wait for his offensive game to come in to its own.

He is 22. If he still isn't producing at 25 or 26, then we have a problem. Patience is key.
- MBFlyerfan

That's the other side of the issue, really. Thrust into a huge defensive role at an early age and now finally being asked to provide more offense represents having to adjust.

In the cases of both, it's too early to write them off as potential 2nd line centers

Defintely not. He is not 2nd line talent material, offensively. (Here come the "Couts produces at even strength" guys). Have to use your eyes too....he is clearly lacking in the offensive skill department.
- GOA88

I disagree that he lack offensive skill. Using my eyes, it's definitely there. He has a confidence issue with the puck, and thinks too much instead of reacting. That leads to hesitation, just as Bill alluded to in his blog.

The kids are alright.

I honestly think they both need a bit more consistency. Also, wouldn't mind seeing Coots bulk up a bit. I don't consider myself the most analytical person to watch a game, but he's often chasing a puck and just gets rubbed out. It doesn't have to be a monumental shift, but adding some bulk could go a long way in his ability to work along the boards.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier and the Player Development Conundrum
- bmeltzer

Great write up Bill! FWIW, here's my 2 cents:

On Couturier
If he really wants to take his game to the next level, I believe there are three key things he needs to do:

1. RELAX! You can visibly see him pressing when he has the puck in the offensive zone. He needs to just play the game and stop over thinking things.

2. Take some power skating lessons in the offseason. Sure, he'll never be Pavel Bure, but he can and should do everything possible to improve his skating.

3. Hit the gym. Another 8-10 pounds of muscle and an increase in upper body strength would help him win puck battles in the corner and make him that much harder to force off the puck.


On B. Schenn
Schenn may just be what we've seen this year. Basically a solid, average NHL forward. However, he too, can do some things to improve his game.

1. Much like Couturier he could also stand to work as hard as possible on his skating and spend some more time in the gym. Getting both stronger and faster will only help his game.

2. Bring intensity to each and every shift. Every once in a while, he'll seem to find another gear and really look like a force on the ice. However, too often IMO, he's simply invisible out there. One of the things that made guys who lacked a lot of natural talent like Brind'amour and Rick Tocchet so successful, was that they brought it every game, every shift. Simply put, Schenn needs to work harder.

3. Play with a physical edge on a consistent basis. Schenn seems to play better when he's playing physical. Get in there, throw a hit, mix it up a bit, whatever it takes.

On another note, I'd also like to see Wayne Simmonds hit the gym and try to put a few pounds on. While he's gritty as hell, he looks like a toothpick out there.

That's the other side of the issue, really. Thrust into a huge defensive role at an early age and now finally being asked to provide more offense represents having to adjust.

In the cases of both, it's too early to write them off as potential 2nd line centers
- Jsaquella

Agreed

It is also remarkable that Couturier is a plus player this season.

As for Schenn, I would like to see more from him simply based on the fact he spends most of his time in the top 6 and on the first PP unit. But the same thing applies in the end, lets see what he is like at 25 or 26 before writing him off as not a 2nd line center.

I see it this way. How old were players who were drafted in similar spots when they started putting it all together? Jake Voracek comes to mind.


We always forget he was REALLY young when he made the team. His development has run an opposite course than your "normal" development. He was a young kid who played defense like a seasoned vet, and we have to wait for his offensive game to come in to its own.

He is 22. If he still isn't producing at 25 or 26, then we have a problem. Patience is key.
- MBFlyerfan

Agreed, but as I posted earlier, there are things I'd like to see him do to improve his overall game.

Great write up Bill! FWIW, here's my 2 cents:

On Couturier
If he really wants to take his game to the next level, I believe there are three key things he needs to do:

1. RELAX! You can visibly see him pressing when he has the puck in the offensive zone. He needs to just play the game and stop over thinking things.

2. Take some power skating lessons in the offseason. Sure, he'll never be Pavel Bure, but he can and should do everything possible to improve his skating.

3. Hit the gym. Another 8-10 pounds of muscle and an increase in upper body strength would help him win puck battles in the corner and make him that much harder to force off the puck.


On B. Schenn
Schenn may just be what we've seen this year. Basically a solid, average NHL forward. However, he too, can do some things to improve his game.

1. Much like Couturier he could also stand to work as hard as possible on his skating and spend some more time in the gym. Getting both stronger and faster will only help his game.

2. Bring intensity to each and every shift. Every once in a while, he'll seem to find another gear and really look like a force on the ice. However, too often IMO, he's simply invisible out there. One of the things that made guys who lacked a lot of natural talent like Brind'amour and Rick Tocchet so successful, was that they brought it every game, every shift. Simply put, Schenn needs to work harder.

3. Play with a physical edge on a consistent basis. Schenn seems to play better when he's playing physical. Get in there, throw a hit, mix it up a bit, whatever it takes.

On another note, I'd also like to see Wayne Simmonds hit the gym and try to put a few pounds on. While he's gritty as hell, he looks like a toothpick out there.
- BiggE

It has been written that the last few off seasons, he had had surgeries that prevented him from doing just that. Hopefully that changes this summer.

Agreed

It is also remarkable that Couturier is a plus player this season.

As for Schenn, I would like to see more from him simply based on the fact he spends most of his time in the top 6 and on the first PP unit. But the same thing applies in the end, lets see what he is like at 25 or 26 before writing him off as not a 2nd line center.
- MBFlyerfan

I wouldn't write Schenn off either. However, I'd be much more willing to move him in the right deal, than I would be willing to move Couturier.

I wouldn't write Schenn off either. However, I'd be much more willing to move him in the right deal, than I would be willing to move Couturier.
- BiggE

Same here. If he could get back a good winger I would be all for the trade.