Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Hextall, Draft, WHL Top 50, Alumni

Interesting Coates asked about Brown, who s almost universally seen as being long gone by the time the Flyers pick.

Anyone see the article about Flyers waiting on buying out Umberger? Maybe some hardball to see if he approaches them to terminate?

Interesting Coates asked about Brown, who s almost universally seen as being long gone by the time the Flyers pick.
- Jsaquella

They also talked about moving up. I suspect that Brown is someone they'd consider moving up to take if the price wasn't outrageous.

Anyone see the article about Flyers waiting on buying out Umberger? Maybe some hardball to see if he approaches them to terminate?
- J35Bacher

Why would he terminate? If he's bought out, he gets the buyout money plus free agency. If he terminates, he doesn't collect a dime.

Anyone see the article about Flyers waiting on buying out Umberger? Maybe some hardball to see if he approaches them to terminate?
- J35Bacher

No chance that he agrees to terminate.

I think we will hear something today from Hextall about it. I see no real scenario where he is still on the team come the draft.

Why would he terminate? If he's bought out, he gets the buyout money plus free agency. If he terminates, he doesn't collect a dime.
- bmeltzer

They can also not buy him out and let him sit as a 13th forward for another season.

I think they buy him out but they could try and put a little pressure to see if he comes to them.

The Flyers can clear some money with other moves if need be and just let the contract one it's course this season.

No chance that he agrees to terminate.
- MJL

Probably not.

But just say they decide not to buy him out. They say they prefer to let the contract run it's course this year. He can maybe earn a spot but he will most likely be a 13th forward.

Does that maybe put pressure on RJ to think of another option.

Yes. I know he can keep collecting money. But is it worth maybe a season of 20 some games, having to practice with no real chance to play, call ups getting inserted over you.

Again. Probably not but it does put some pressure on the player to evaluate what he wants. Collect paycheck or maybe terminate and try to look for a situation where he could be a cheap 4th line player for a team but at least play.

Probably not.

But just say they decide not to buy him out. They say they prefer to let the contract run it's course this year. He can maybe earn a spot but he will most likely be a 13th forward.

Does that maybe put pressure on RJ to think of another option.

Yes. I know he can keep collecting money. But is it worth maybe a season of 20 some games, having to practice with no real chance to play, call ups getting inserted over you.

Again. Probably not but it does put some pressure on the player to evaluate what he wants. Collect paycheck or maybe terminate and try to look for a situation where he could be a cheap 4th line player for a team but at least play.
- J35Bacher

What people fail to understand is that just because these guys are not playing, it doesnt mean they arent part of the team.

I would venture to guess that he has a very strong relationship with the team. His pride is with this team. He wants to play, and there is no guarantee that "quitting" and "looking elsewhere" will get him another job. So, getting paid millions of dollars to be a 13th forward with every rare game he gets as a sort of proving ground, and hanging with his team and friends really isnt a bad gig for an older, declining player.

Probably not.

But just say they decide not to buy him out. They say they prefer to let the contract run it's course this year. He can maybe earn a spot but he will most likely be a 13th forward.

Does that maybe put pressure on RJ to think of another option.

Yes. I know he can keep collecting money. But is it worth maybe a season of 20 some games, having to practice with no real chance to play, call ups getting inserted over you.

Again. Probably not but it does put some pressure on the player to evaluate what he wants. Collect paycheck or maybe terminate and try to look for a situation where he could be a cheap 4th line player for a team but at least play.
- J35Bacher

What is his other option? Most likely what his other option is, if he terminates, he gets a PTO without a contract to try and earn a spot on a team. If he's bought out, he gets a PTO to try and earn a spot on a team, with the buyout money in his back pocket.

What people fail to understand is that just because these guys are not playing, it doesnt mean they arent part of the team.

I would venture to guess that he has a very strong relationship with the team. His pride is with this team. He wants to play, and there is no guarantee that "quitting" and "looking elsewhere" will get him another job. So, getting paid millions of dollars to be a 13th forward with every rare game he gets as a sort of proving ground, and hanging with his team and friends really isnt a bad gig for an older, declining player.
- jak521

I understand that.

But he doesn't want to sit. Again he is most likely bought out today but there is a difference between a contributing player and someone who sits and really is doing anything other then practicing.

I think some people underestimate the competitive nature in players and just feel that money is enough to keep a guy quiet and continue to go through the rigors or travel, practice and keeping conditioning up just to really have no chance to play.

Not doing the Umberger dance today, that's for damn sure

He'll either get bought out (which is my preference) or have the same role as he did at the end of last season, which is "not much of one at all"

He's so clearly been surpassed on the depth chart, there are other guys who are more interesting to talk about, to me

They also talked about moving up. I suspect that Brown is someone they'd consider moving up to take if the price wasn't outrageous.
- bmeltzer

All of the more recent mocks I've seen have Brown surging. I don't think he's a 10th-14th overall pick anymore. If we did somehow move into the top 10 I don't think it would be him I'd have my eyes on.

Not doing the Umberger dance today, that's for damn sure

He'll either get bought out (which is my preference) or have the same role as he did at the end of last season, which is "not much of one at all"

He's so clearly been surpassed on the depth chart, there are other guys who are more interesting to talk about, to me
- AllInForFlyers

I 2nd this motion. We're so close to the draft. So many exciting prospects to be talked about.

Hard to argue with Sakic.

What is his other option? Most likely what his other option is, if he terminates, he gets a PTO without a contract to try and earn a spot on a team. If he's bought out, he gets a PTO to try and earn a spot on a team, with the buyout money in his back pocket.
- MJL

I am not naïve to the money issue. But if I am the Flyers and everyone seems to think they shouldn't spend on big FA, then I wait this contract out another year to clear it fully. I let Umberger sit another year. I can free up money other ways if needed like trying to move Streit/Read/MacDonald.

That would be the other option. Let him decide what he wants more.

but it is probably all moot as he is probably bought out today

Anyone see the article about Flyers waiting on buying out Umberger? Maybe some hardball to see if he approaches them to terminate?
- J35Bacher

The only possible options other than a buyout that I see are:
1) He agrees to waive his NMC and is demoted to the AHLthe first day possible and remains there. It lowers their cap hit this year by (I believe) $950K with no cap penalties for next year.

2) He's traded to another team for a player on a similarly bad contract but who the Flyers value more who has more than 1 year left.

I don't see option #2 happening, and I think option #1 is slim. 97.4% buyout happens today.

All of the more recent mocks I've seen have Brown surging. I don't think he's a 10th-14th overall pick anymore. If we did somehow move into the top 10 I don't think it would be him I'd have my eyes on.
- hereticpride

I've seen two recent mocks that had him going #3 in one and I think #4 or #6 in the other.

All of the more recent mocks I've seen have Brown surging. I don't think he's a 10th-14th overall pick anymore. If we did somehow move into the top 10 I don't think it would be him I'd have my eyes on.
- hereticpride

If they stay at 18 I hope for Bellows or Rubtsov or Kunin.

A guy I think Bill mentioned and I have read more about as a possible 2nd or 3rd round guy I am hoping for is Vladimir Kuznetsov. Is said to be raw but has a cannon and scores goals. Also I love a guy with the nick name(Russian Tank).

The only possible options other than a buyout that I see are:
1) He agrees to waive his NMC and is demoted to the AHLthe first day possible and remains there. It lowers their cap hit this year by (I believe) $950K with no cap penalties for next year.

2) He's traded to another team for a player on a similarly bad contract but who the Flyers value more who has more than 1 year left.

I don't see option #2 happening, and I think option #1 is slim. 97.4% buyout happens today.
- jmatchett383

And I have said I think the buyout happens today too.

I just wonder if Hextall would play a little hardball if they don't NEED to shed that cap. Let him sit and go from there.

I am not naïve to the money issue. But if I am the Flyers and everyone seems to think they shouldn't spend on big FA, then I wait this contract out another year to clear it fully. I let Umberger sit another year. I can free up money other ways if needed like trying to move Streit/Read/MacDonald.

That would be the other option. Let him decide what he wants more.

but it is probably all moot as he is probably bought out today
- J35Bacher

I don't think it's about what Umberger wants more. He is not going to make any move. The ball is in the Flyers court. They're the ones who have to make a move here. Umberger if he's not bought out will show to camp and play. That is his best option if not bought out, to continue his career.

One caveat to the Flyers signing any free agent to a multi year deal, is that it could expose another player to the expansion draft.

And I have said I think the buyout happens today too.

I just wonder if Hextall would play a little hardball if they don't NEED to shed that cap. Let him sit and go from there.

And I have said I think the buyout happens today too.

I just wonder if Hextall would play a little hardball if they don't NEED to shed that cap. Let him sit and go from there.



- J35Bacher

A player has to be placed on waivers for the purpose of a buyout first, before being bought out.

That's not hardball, it's exactly what Umberger wants.

I've seen two recent mocks that had him going #3 in one and I think #4 or #6 in the other.
- arichardson22

If Columbus passed on Jesse Puljujärvi I would be very interested in trying to get to 4.

I don't think it's about what Umberger wants more. He is not going to make any move. The ball is in the Flyers court. They're the ones who have to make a move here. Umberger if he's not bought out will show to camp and play. That is his best option if not bought out, to continue his career.

One caveat to the Flyers signing any free agent to a multi year deal, is that it could expose another player to the expansion draft.
- MJL

Have we determined when the draft is considering the year end? Is it league year or when season is over. Because that could change on if the Flyers would have to protect a UFA.