Bob Duff: Brand loyalty creating logjam for Wings Loyalty to veteran players, a Detroit trademark under GM Ken Holland, is making it difficult to bring about change on the Wings' roster.

slowly marching towards mediocrity.

I forgot you guys signed vanek

Bizarre stuff going on here

Be patient, Holland is doing everything he can to turn that slow march into a drop off a cliff

Be patient, Holland is doing everything he can to turn that slow march into a drop off a cliff
- dcz28

this summer just proved what I said about him when this offseason began. Kenny Holland is in over his head in this post salary cap world.

Oh, and hes full of poop too...

This was supposed to be a summer of change, whoever believed that is a big sucker!

this summer just proved what I said about him when this offseason began. Kenny Holland is in over his head in this post salary cap world.

Oh, and hes full of poop too...

This was supposed to be a summer of change, whoever believed that is a big sucker!
- wingz4life

Well there was change Vanek, Nielsen and Ott in and Mantha and AA to the AHL.

Biggest problem is he didn't change a damn thing on defense other than letting Quincey walk (summer not over yet though) and this was their biggest problem and has been since Lidstrom retired.

One other thing about the logjam:

By my count the Red Wings have 49 players under contract for next season (including all their signed draft picks), one shy of the 50 contract limit, with 3 qualified free agents (Ryan Sproul, Colin Campbell, Louis-Marc Aubry) still unsigned. Presumably they'll try to re-sign Sproul at some point, at which point they could not add any additional players (even their own unsigned RFAs) unless they cycled an equal or greater number out first.

I mean, losing Campbell and Aubry is no great loss, but generally speaking I think it's unwise to be operating at the very top of the contract limit. I would think you'd want to stay at least 2-3 below it so that you have a little more flexibility, though it's looking increasingly like flexibility isn't something KH values.

slowly marching towards mediocrity.
- wingz4life

They've been at mediocrity for 4-5 years now. Now they are quickly marching to the bottom 5.

One other thing about the logjam:

By my count the Red Wings have 49 players under contract for next season (including all their signed draft picks), one shy of the 50 contract limit, with 3 qualified free agents (Ryan Sproul, Colin Campbell, Louis-Marc Aubry) still unsigned. Presumably they'll try to re-sign Sproul at some point, at which point they could not add any additional players (even their own unsigned RFAs) unless they cycled an equal or greater number out first.

I mean, losing Campbell and Aubry is no great loss, but generally speaking I think it's unwise to be operating at the very top of the contract limit. I would think you'd want to stay at least 2-3 below it so that you have a little more flexibility, though it's looking increasingly like flexibility isn't something KH values.
- Sven22

Campbell and Aubry should get AHL deals. They don't deserve an NHL SPC IMO. While Sproul would put them at the SPC limit of 50 it probably won't hurt trade flexibility much. Teams throw in an extra low level prospect to trades fairly often to make a trade work.

Might be time to cut the strings with Holland. Dude seems stuck in the pre-salary cap era. But Mike Ilitch is probably too busy with the Tigers and too loyal to the ol' boys (Nill and Yzerman all seem to be doing so well elsewhere)

It is time to let Holland go definitely. He's driven this team into a poop show.

Might be time to cut the strings with Holland. Dude seems stuck in the pre-salary cap era. But Mike Ilitch is probably too busy with the Tigers and too loyal to the ol' boys (Nill and Yzerman all seem to be doing so well elsewhere)
- DeflatedPucks

Problem isn't that he's stuck in a pre-salary cap era, it's that he can't evaluate talent or what they are worth anymore. He's also massively afraid of change. He's more concerned with keeping the playoff streak going over building a team that can win the cup.

As for Mike Ilitch, he's not the one that deals with it much anymore, it's his son Chris now.

Holland has done nothing in the last 10 years. Hopefully his "trainee" draper doesn't listen to anything he says.

I would like to see Illitch Jr. let Holland go and find somebody else at this point. Most all of the top talent in the front office is gone and Holland has made a holy mess of this team with his huge horrible contracts to mediocre players. Heck... they way he's been handing out contracts you'd think this was a defending Stanley Cup team... freakin' joke. He won't make trades... and typically he sucks at making them (like losing Jarnkrok in that horrible trade with Nashville).

He's going to have too many young prospect players that are out of options by the time training camp ends and we'll probably lose a couple decent prospects to waivers... it's his typical routine each season. Let the good young talent rot in GR and play the old mediocre vets so we can keep that precious playoff streak alive.

If he doesn't start AA and Mantha on the roster this year he will get some backlash from most of the fans. Good grief.... I'd argue that Russo and Tangradi have earned a shot at making the roster.

I would like to see Illitch Jr. let Holland go and find somebody else at this point. Most all of the top talent in the front office is gone and Holland has made a holy mess of this team with his huge horrible contracts to mediocre players. Heck... they way he's been handing out contracts you'd think this was a defending Stanley Cup team... freakin' joke. He won't make trades... and typically he sucks at making them (like losing Jarnkrok in that horrible trade with Nashville).

He's going to have too many young prospect players that are out of options by the time training camp ends and we'll probably lose a couple decent prospects to waivers... it's his typical routine each season. Let the good young talent rot in GR and play the old mediocre vets so we can keep that precious playoff streak alive.

If he doesn't start AA and Mantha on the roster this year he will get some backlash from most of the fans. Good grief.... I'd argue that Russo and Tangradi have earned a shot at making the roster.
- Vladdie_Kon1

I agree that AA has earned a spot. IMO Blashill will make sure he is in the NHL.

But, what has Mantha done? Almost nothing. This organization rightfully does not hand roster spots to young players.

Even though Russo had a great AHL season, he has also earned nothing. Jensen has proved more through multiple AHL seasons and good showings in NHL pre-seasons.

Good grief.

I agree that AA has earned a spot. IMO Blashill will make sure he is in the NHL.

But, what has Mantha done? Almost nothing. This organization rightfully does not hand roster spots to young players.

Even though Russo had a great AHL season, he has also earned nothing. Jensen has proved more through multiple AHL seasons and good showings in NHL pre-seasons.

Good grief.
- TwoPieceFeed

You mean other than produce at a dominant rate in the AHL?

https://public.tableau.co...X5K49Y?:display_count=yes

You mean other than produce at a dominant rate in the AHL?

https://public.tableau.co...X5K49Y?:display_count=yes
- Feds91Stammer

The AHL isn't the NHL (obviously).

His NHL stint was not impressive. AA's was, and he didn't "dominate" the AHL.

The AHL isn't the NHL (obviously).

His NHL stint was not impressive. AA's was, and he didn't "dominate" the AHL.
- TwoPieceFeed

I see where this is headed...

I see where this is headed...
- Feds91Stammer

Everyone who dominates the AHL sucks when in the NHL.

Everyone who blows in the AHL becomes a superstar in the NHL.

Delete your account. I'll delete my account.

Right?

Everyone who dominates the AHL sucks when in the NHL.

Everyone who blows in the AHL becomes a superstar in the NHL.

Delete your account. I'll delete my account.

Right?
- TwoPieceFeed

I agree that AA has earned a spot. IMO Blashill will make sure he is in the NHL.

But, what has Mantha done? Almost nothing. This organization rightfully does not hand roster spots to young players.

Even though Russo had a great AHL season, he has also earned nothing. Jensen has proved more through multiple AHL seasons and good showings in NHL pre-seasons.

Good grief.
- TwoPieceFeed

I never said Russo or Mantha had earned a genuine roster spot... I said they've earned a "shot" i.e. opportunity to prove themselves with getting a call-up and see what they can do. I've watched both of these guys in GR quite a bit... if not now then when ? When their 24 years old.. ?? that would be nuts. Many of the good teams are giving these younger players a good look at the NHL level at earlier ages now. Let one of the older goats sit on the bench for a few games. I don't want to see Mantha or Russo sit in GR as long as Nyquist did... The current roster is too devoid of talent to let that keep happening.

And by the way, Mantha had a great season last year. To say Mantha did "nothing" is complete nonsense. You obviously don't watch him play and see how he's improved... 11 pts. in 9 playoff games. Regular season: 45 pts. in 60 games. 4th in team scoring. That's worth a look in Detroit I'd say.

Knowing Holland he'll probably wait until they are both out of options before actually calling them up to Detroit. Which could inevitably delay their developement.

I never said Russo or Mantha had earned a genuine roster spot... I said they've earned a "shot" i.e. opportunity to prove themselves with getting a call-up and see what they can do. I've watched both of these guys in GR quite a bit... if not now then when ? When their 24 years old.. ?? that would be nuts. Many of the good teams are giving these younger players a good look at the NHL level at earlier ages now. Let one of the older goats sit on the bench for a few games. I don't want to see Mantha or Russo sit in GR as long as Nyquist did... The current roster is too devoid of talent to let that keep happening.

And by the way, Mantha had a great season last year. To say Mantha did "nothing" is complete nonsense. You obviously don't watch him play and see how he's improved... 11 pts. in 9 playoff games. Regular season: 45 pts. in 60 games. 4th in team scoring. That's worth a look in Detroit I'd say.

Knowing Holland he'll probably wait until they are both out of options before actually calling them up to Detroit. Which could inevitably delay their developement.
- Vladdie_Kon1

What I meant is that Mantha did close to nothing during his stint in the NHL. I agree that he had a really good AHL season, but I don't think he's earned a shot at the roster yet. He's not as far developed as Nyquist was when he was left in the AHL 15 games too long. He needs another year of top-line development IMO.

Same thing with Russo.

Athanasiou had/has a more pro-developed game. His speed is elite. His hands and his shot are very good. His decision making and physicality requires development (even though he was very physical and present during the playoffs) and that's why he was only given 9 minutes/game. I think giving him such little time to think made him look really, really good. I will be disappointed if he doesn't get more time based on how he performed when he was on the ice.

I just flat-out disagree that completing 1 full AHL season means that you've earned a shot in the NHL. No, you dominate in the AHL with what your role is, and then you get your shot. Russo is a little different because he did play at an elite level as a 2-way defenseman for most of the AHL season. Let's see if he can improve on that.

What I meant is that Mantha did close to nothing during his stint in the NHL. I agree that he had a really good AHL season, but I don't think he's earned a shot at the roster yet. He's not as far developed as Nyquist was when he was left in the AHL 15 games too long. He needs another year of top-line development IMO.

Same thing with Russo.

Athanasiou had/has a more pro-developed game. His speed is elite. His hands and his shot are very good. His decision making and physicality requires development (even though he was very physical and present during the playoffs) and that's why he was only given 9 minutes/game. I think giving him such little time to think made him look really, really good. I will be disappointed if he doesn't get more time based on how he performed when he was on the ice.

I just flat-out disagree that completing 1 full AHL season means that you've earned a shot in the NHL. No, you dominate in the AHL with what your role is, and then you get your shot. Russo is a little different because he did play at an elite level as a 2-way defenseman for most of the AHL season. Let's see if he can improve on that.
- TwoPieceFeed

I love how you come to a definitive decision based on a 10 game sample size.

Primary points per 60 wise Mantha was right there with Helm.

Individual shot attempts per 60 Mantha was right there with Tatar, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk.

Mantha has nothing left to prove in the AHL and the only reason anyone thinks he struggled in his 10 games is because his goalies only put up a 81.13 Sv% when he was on the ice.

When the Wings were stacked with an all star roster and a serious cup contender every year, they easily could make a case to keep youngsters in the AHL until they were out of waiver options even if they were NHL ready before that. That is not the case at all now with a ton of mediocre players instead of all stars and they are not a serious contender.

At this point the least they can do is keep 1 or 2 spots for prospects to battle for or rotate them in to give them cups of coffee with the team and see where they stand instead of waiting until they are out of options and then waiving them because there's too many vets on the team to begin with. A guy like Sproul should have more than 1 NHL game played at this point to have a better idea of what he might be at the NHL level and what he could have done to improve more. Telling a kid he needs to improve this or that is fine but if he plays a couple of NHL games and sees he has to improve certain things to compete...he might figure out he better do it a lot faster than just being told so.

Hell giving them a couple of games every year might also improve their trade value if they play well instead of other teams only having AHL games to judge them by. This could also give the GM a better idea on which to keep and which he can move to improve the roster and clear out some log jams.

If one of the prospects struggles, you send him down and call up another one or rotate a couple in and out and work with them. If they all struggle, you make a cheap trade for a depth guy, sign one or get one on waivers...no big deal and you don't lose much to get a better understanding of where the prospects are in terms of NHL capabilities.

I may be the minority in all of this but I think KH had one of his better off seasons this time around.


PROS:
He addressed the needs for some offense, grit and 2nd C hole with the Ott, Vanek and Nielsen signings, and lets be honest here... he spent what 8mil on 3 players? ... that is 2.6 per player and two of them you can easily sit in the press box.

He also got alot of cap space in the Datsyuk trade, and a prospect to boot. Getting Vitale knowing he is going to LTIR helped him too.

with the exception of Dekeyser, he also signed some good RFA contracts by my estimation.

CONS:
Did not improve the D corps at all.

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The fallback of the offensive improvements may mean that AA and Mantha start in the AHL, but I dont think they are close to being any time of saviours yet. Have they earned anything... I dont think so, other than Vets losing something.

This will be an interesting year for the Wings... one has to think that we will be better at scoring goals, but I would say the glutonny of forwards is to have some options at moving one/two for a dman somewhere this off season.

I will cry about it once camp starts if it is the same as today.

*I got a s sneaky feeling Vanek will have a big season, but we will lose him when we cannot affford him next year or Vanek will never be seen in the NHL again.