Ryan Wilson: Numbers support #SidDownLow Numbers support #SidDownLow

Can we please stop referring to Crosby and a "grinder." Yeah, he's not a pure finesse guy a la Gretzky or Lemieux, but he's also not Gordie Howe throwing elbows in the corner, either.

Crosby is an exceptionally gifted player who can make plays that others cannot. The fact that he can carry the puck from the perimeter to the inside does not mean he's a "grinder." It means he's a really (frank)ing talented player.

Can we please stop referring to Crosby and a "grinder." Yeah, he's not a pure finesse guy a la Gretzky or Lemieux, but he's also not Gordie Howe throwing elbows in the corner, either.

Crosby is an exceptionally gifted player who can make plays that others cannot. The fact that he can carry the puck from the perimeter to the inside does not mean he's a "grinder." It means he's a really (frank)ing talented player.
- jmatchett383

I wouldn't call him a grinder either but he is sneaky down around the net. His hands are so quick and his hand-eye is amazing so that's how he scores most of the "dirty" goals

Can we please stop referring to Crosby and a "grinder." Yeah, he's not a pure finesse guy a la Gretzky or Lemieux, but he's also not Gordie Howe throwing elbows in the corner, either.

Crosby is an exceptionally gifted player who can make plays that others cannot. The fact that he can carry the puck from the perimeter to the inside does not mean he's a "grinder." It means he's a really (frank)ing talented player.
- jmatchett383

His board play behind the net though.. is disgusting.. and that's where grinders are supposed to be.

Can we please stop referring to Crosby and a "grinder." Yeah, he's not a pure finesse guy a la Gretzky or Lemieux, but he's also not Gordie Howe throwing elbows in the corner, either.

Crosby is an exceptionally gifted player who can make plays that others cannot. The fact that he can carry the puck from the perimeter to the inside does not mean he's a "grinder." It means he's a really (frank)ing talented player.
- jmatchett383

That's more the little bit of "power forward" in him. He's just sick. He's a Jack of all trades, King of some kind of deal.

His board play behind the net though.. is disgusting.. and that's where grinders are supposed to be.
- eNDSo

Yes, but I don't think that grinders have the stick skills and hockey sense that he does. Grinders are guys who get in on the forecheck, wear down the defense, and give the superstars a break. Crosby is the superstar who does all of that and a ton more.

But if it's all about board work and puck protection, then Mario Lemieux was a grinder.

Yes, but I don't think that grinders have the stick skills and hockey sense that he does. Grinders are guys who get in on the forecheck, wear down the defense, and give the superstars a break. Crosby is the superstar who does all of that and a ton more.

But if it's all about board work and puck protection, then Mario Lemieux was a grinder.
- jmatchett383

Glorified grinder?

Glorified grinder?
- MattStrat

That makes him sound even worse lol

He is not afraid of contact and goes to high traffic areas where you generally take a beating. People apply the term, grinder to him because he does these things. Is he a fourth line grinder? No, of course not. The term fearless may be a better adjective to describe him and what he does.

Hey!

Did everyone hear?, We're getting Karlsson for Kessel in a 3 way trade with Vegas?

Hey!

Did everyone hear?, We're getting Karlsson for Kessel in a 3 way trade with Vegas?
- RoloTahmasee

No way!!! Is Lemieux coming back out of retirement too?!

No way!!! Is Lemieux coming back out of retirement too?!
- 668710

If he is, Ek will be the first one to let us know!

The reason people refer to Crosby as the best grinder ever is because he doesn’t look at hockey with blinders on like most superstar players do. Yes he’s extremely talented, it is a well known fact that extremely talented players often cut corners. Do you think Patrick Kane has ever trained as hard as say Matt Martin in the off season? No, Crosby has. It’s just the way he reacts to hockey. A “grinder” will do whatever it takes to help the team. Crosby does too. Yes his board play and everything is superb, but Crosby doesn’t approach hockey as “ my job is to score goals” other guys can wear the other team down, blocked shots, fight etc. Crosby’s willing to do it all while being the back bone of production. That’s why he’s the best grinder of all time. Sorry Brindamour.

Can we please stop referring to Crosby and a "grinder." Yeah, he's not a pure finesse guy a la Gretzky or Lemieux, but he's also not Gordie Howe throwing elbows in the corner, either.

Crosby is an exceptionally gifted player who can make plays that others cannot. The fact that he can carry the puck from the perimeter to the inside does not mean he's a "grinder." It means he's a really (frank)ing talented player.
- jmatchett383

(frank) man, be careful. If your opinion doesñt align with certain individuals in here's you Will get called names! You have to follow the opinion held by the loudest.

Glorified grinder?
- MattStrat

Hes the 'Mickey Mouse'!

(frank) man, be careful. If your opinion doesñt align with certain individuals in here's you Will get called names! You have to follow the opinion held by the loudest.
- Aussiepenguin

I've browsed the forums quite a while but never felt the need to make an account. Sorry but it's easier to score on the powerplay compared to even strength. That's kind of the idea behind a "man advantage". I'm expecting wonderful things now that i've entered here

No way!!! Is Lemieux coming back out of retirement too?!

E5-rumor is its the reason he is selling his castle...

Let's hope Sid has an uptick-year, because honestly in '18 it was simply Malkin why the Penguins made the playoffs (so easily)...

I've browsed the forums quite a while but never felt the need to make an account. Sorry but it's easier to score on the powerplay compared to even strength. That's kind of the idea behind a "man advantage". I'm expecting wonderful things now that i've entered here
- Thrill81

I've got no issue with anyone's opinion as long as they consider what i provide as mine.

I've said & provided factual evidence as to why I don't think the statement that was originally made is correct - statistics that confirm my opinion. If you want to try & tell me those statistics are false pm me. As I said opinions are like bums, everyone's got 1.

I can live with people not agreeing me. Its like a lot of people don't like Crosby. I do, & that's what matters to moi.

Bienvenue.

I've got no issue with anyone's opinion as long as they consider what i provide as mine.

I've said & provided factual evidence as to why I don't think the statement that was originally made is correct - statistics that confirm my opinion. If you want to try & tell me those statistics are false pm me. As I said opinions are like bums, everyone's got 1.

I can live with people not agreeing me. Its like a lot of people don't like Crosby. I do, & that's what matters to moi.
- Aussiepenguin

I respect differences of opinion (except tom wilson, he's garbage period). Simply put teams score even strength goals because they're at even strength more. They score less power play goals because they're on the powerplay for what, 2 to 6 minutes a night. that's why the percentages matter. A team scoring 1 powerplay goal on 2 attempts means in that span of roughly 4 minutes, they got a goal. Translate that to an entire game of 5v4 and they'd have 15 goals a game. It's easier to score on the powerplay, it's just the league doesn't make as many calls as they should. I'll agree that goals are goals though. At the end of the day a win is a win. I think the 2017 pens proved that.

I respect differences of opinion (except tom wilson, he's garbage period). Simply put teams score even strength goals because they're at even strength more. They score less power play goals because they're on the powerplay for what, 2 to 6 minutes a night. that's why the percentages matter. A team scoring 1 powerplay goal on 2 attempts means in that span of roughly 4 minutes, they got a goal. Translate that to an entire game of 5v4 and they'd have 15 goals a game. It's easier to score on the powerplay, it's just the league doesn't make as many calls as they should. I'll agree that goals are goals though. At the end of the day a win is a win. I think the 2017 pens proved that.
- Thrill81

Yes I get all that. People will get annoyed if we continue. I have explained myself previously & provided analysis & statistical proof. :

And I don't disagree with a lòt of what you say. A comment was made that I simply said was false. Just keep in mind every game is different. The math you are using is also hypothetical as some games have zero PP goals.

I'm going to work now, but happy to continue if you pm me - press on my avatar & send a message.

I've browsed the forums quite a while but never felt the need to make an account. Sorry but it's easier to score on the powerplay compared to even strength. That's kind of the idea behind a "man advantage". I'm expecting wonderful things now that i've entered here
- Thrill81

Welcome aboard man, love the name too haha. Although I despise that you brought this subject back up lol

The reason people refer to Crosby as the best grinder ever is because he doesn’t look at hockey with blinders on like most superstar players do. Yes he’s extremely talented, it is a well known fact that extremely talented players often cut corners. Do you think Patrick Kane has ever trained as hard as say Matt Martin in the off season? No, Crosby has. It’s just the way he reacts to hockey. A “grinder” will do whatever it takes to help the team. Crosby does too. Yes his board play and everything is superb, but Crosby doesn’t approach hockey as “ my job is to score goals” other guys can wear the other team down, blocked shots, fight etc. Crosby’s willing to do it all while being the back bone of production. That’s why he’s the best grinder of all time. Sorry Brindamour.
- Grinder47

Matt Martin trains? Why's he suck so bad?

Yes I get all that. People will get annoyed if we continue. I have explained myself previously & provided analysis & statistical proof. :

And I don't disagree with a lòt of what you say. A comment was made that I simply said was false. Just keep in mind every game is different. The math you are using is also hypothetical as some games have zero PP goals.

I'm going to work now, but happy to continue if you pm me - press on my avatar & send a message.
- Aussiepenguin

Haha, I'm willing to end it here. I don't want to seek a 3+ page flame war.

Welcome aboard man, love the name too haha. Although I despise that you brought this subject back up lol
- 668710

lol yeah, in retrospect bringing the conversation back wasn't smart.

Haha, I'm willing to end it here. I don't want to seek a 3+ page flame war.
- Thrill81

On the Buzz, people can have normal conversations that go to & forth & end pretty quick with an outcome - some agree to disagree.

It's only when certain wienerheads want to cyber bully & abuse others with different opinions & digress & refuse to answer simple questions that it goes berserk & end up going on like the days of our lives.

Just an insight into my thought process, I look at individual games & players doing things rather than throw everything in a maths formulae & end up with an overall outcome. It's why some of my opinions go against mainstream as I identify discreet events that form the outcome of a game. It's why I don't consider Corsi as a valid stat. Sure it goes against the grain of the general hockey opinion, but t I haven't grown up with being told how to think about it. I don't accept that all games are played the same & in the exact same environments. And insults really don't bother me, I'm old enough not to get too worried about being a target - years of playing a contact sport I suppose (& being married with kids). The behaviour is pretty low though & has no place in here.