Bill Meltzer: Musings and Quick Hits: Line Play, Reading too much into camp, TIFH

That 2010 playoff run was as fun as it gets. Outside of Giroux, Ville Leino was such a beast in that run. Every single time he touched the puck he made something happen, and he had incredible chemistry with Briere and Hartsy when they played together. I understand it happens all the time, but Leino was one guy who I thought was the real deal and would be a force in our top 6. he didn't have a bad 2010-11, but what he did (or lack thereof) with Buffalo I just did not see coming. I wonder what happened, but will always love Leino for those '10 playoffs.

Bll where is Jason Bowen?

If we're going to trade for anyone I'd rather go all in on Liane to be perfectly honest.
- hereticpride

Laine's got his own issues

Aside from the obvious contract and Fortnite issues, there's also the problem of his consistency and perimeter play.

Laine's got his own issues

Aside from the obvious contract and Fortnite issues, there's also the problem of his consistency and perimeter play.

When he doesn't have the puck on his stick he's contributing virtually nothing. As one-dimensional as a player can possibly be.

Bll where is Jason Bowen?
- daryl stanley

After he was out of pro hockey here, he played for several years in the UK league -- making stops for the teams in Belfast, Scotland and Guildford -- before retiring in 2006. I believe he's back in BC, working in construction. Son plays Junior A.

Randy Holt was the only player that I can remember despising before and after he was a Flyer. Most guys that donned the orange and black, at least for me, were forgiven of any former transgressions accrued before joining the team. Holt attacking Kenny Linseman (I am not saying he probably didn't deserve it) and triggering a brawl that Holt eventually escaped pretty much unscathed kept me from being able to pull for the guy even when wearing the O&B.

When he doesn't have the puck on his stick he's contributing virtually nothing. As one-dimensional as a player can possibly be.
- BINGO!

And the one dimension is scoring 44 goals as a 19 year old.

And the one dimension is scoring 44 goals as a 19 year old.
- PLindbergh31

Seconded. Give me someone who has all world talent in one thing than someone who does everything but is middling in all of them. There's been a ton of all stars and even HOF players that were one dimensional.

Seconded. Give me someone who has all world talent in one thing than someone who does everything but is middling in all of them. There's been a ton of all stars and even HOF players that were one dimensional.
- 2sticks1puck

The hardest thing to do in today's NHL is put the puck in the net. Laine is one of the best at doing it in the infancy of his career.

There's been a ton of all stars and even HOF players that were one dimensional.
- 2sticks1puck

Depends on how much they score. Let's say a one-dimensional shooting specialist gets 30 goals (as Laine did last season) and there were 22 games where he scored at least once including his multi-goal games. What about the other roughly 3/4 of the schedule? What's he contributing on those nights, relative to more complete players?

At a certain level of scoring frequency, ala Brett Hull or Laine's second NHL season or Reggie Leach's 61-goal RS/ 19 goal playoff in 1975-76. you gladly live with the deficiencies because the goal totals are so high. But when you aren't contending for the league goal-scoring lead PLUS aren't contributing in other ways, it reduces your value.

The hardest thing to do in today's NHL is put the puck in the net. Laine is one of the best at doing it in the infancy of his career.
- PLindbergh31

Just gonna ignore how much he struggled this past year?

Teams started closing the gap on him and he wasn't willing to get to harder scoring areas. If he plans on continuing to score goals, he's gotta go to the net.

Just gonna ignore how much he struggled this past year?

Teams started closing the gap on him and he wasn't willing to get to harder scoring areas. If he plans on continuing to score goals, he's gotta go to the net.
- Tomahawk

He's 20 years old and he's averaged 37 goals per season through his first three years. Shall we juxtapose his "struggles" to other players his age?

Depends on how much they score. Let's say a one-dimensional shooting specialist gets 30 goals (as Laine did last season) and there were 22 games where he scored at least once including his multi-goal games. What about the other roughly 3/4 of the schedule? What's he contributing on those nights, relative to more complete players?

At a certain level of scoring frequency, ala Brett Hull or Laine's second NHL season or Reggie Leach's 61-goal RS/ 19 goal playoff in 1975-76. you gladly live with the deficiencies because the goal totals are so high. But when you aren't contending for the league goal-scoring lead PLUS aren't contributing in other ways, it reduces your value.
- bmeltzer

I totally get your point and I'd agree that you can't have a team totally made of those types. However, my counter argument would be someone like Michael Grabner. He really isn't that good at defending, but will always see time on penalty kill units and on the third line because he is so good at breakaways. He's a player who doesn't even contribute at a 30 goal level, but because he does that one thing so exceedingly well he will always have a place on some roster.

There are value to the "200 ft player". However, give me a few guys who have talents in an area over the jack of all trades. You would agree that successful franchises have a good mix of every type of player.

And the one dimension is scoring 44 goals as a 19 year old.
- PLindbergh31

lol yes. He's still a net positive player for the most part, it's just not as impactful as it should be.

He's 20 years old and he's averaged 37 goals per season through his first three years. Shall we juxtapose his "struggles" to other players his age?
- PLindbergh31

A "down year" he still had 30 goals and 3 in the team's first round loss. Teams adjusted to him and then as great players do, he adjusted himself towards the end of the season.

lol yes. He's still a net positive player for the most part, it's just not as impactful as it should be.
- BINGO!

Define impactful? One of the Hurricanes most stable players during their successful years in the early mid 2000s was Aaron Ward. He had very little impact on offense, but was just a really good defender. By the same definition, he wasn't impactful either because he only did one thing well.

Laine scores at close to an elite level and is still a kid. I can't say that he isn't impactful because he's not killing penalties in the third.

Depends on how much they score. Let's say a one-dimensional shooting specialist gets 30 goals (as Laine did last season) and there were 22 games where he scored at least once including his multi-goal games. What about the other roughly 3/4 of the schedule? What's he contributing on those nights, relative to more complete players?

At a certain level of scoring frequency, ala Brett Hull or Laine's second NHL season or Reggie Leach's 61-goal RS/ 19 goal playoff in 1975-76. you gladly live with the deficiencies because the goal totals are so high. But when you aren't contending for the league goal-scoring lead PLUS aren't contributing in other ways, it reduces your value.
- bmeltzer

Exactly. Thanks Bill.

I think it's telling that Laine had more ice time per game last season than the year before, yet managed fewer goals, points, hits, takeaways, and a much worse shot differential, even relative to his teammates.

A "down year" he still had 30 goals and 3 in the team's first round loss. Teams adjusted to him and then as great players do, he adjusted himself towards the end of the season.
- 2sticks1puck

I think the Jets should demote Laine to 3L RW, and overpay a sniper to take his place. Hmmmm that concept sounds familiar.

so we're hating on young scoring studs now?

Exactly. Thanks Bill.

I think it's telling that Laine had more ice time per game last season than the year before, yet managed fewer goals, points, hits, takeaways, and a much worse shot differential, even relative to his teammates.
- BINGO!

I just think two things happened, teams gameplanned for him. He wasn't sneaking up on anyone anymore and since the Jets were/are one of the top teams in the league now, no one is looking past them as a whole. The other thing is that he went through a slump like every other player in NHL history has gone through at some point.

Was his slump bad? Yes. Was it probably worse because he's really only there to score? You bet. However, i have zero doubt that he will bounce back this year.

He's not nearly as good as Ovy, but imagine if the Caps just decided Ovy was no good because he "only" scored 32 goals in 10-11?

Define impactful? One of the Hurricanes most stable players during their successful years in the early mid 2000s was Aaron Ward. He had very little impact on offense, but was just a really good defender. By the same definition, he wasn't impactful either because he only did one thing well.

Laine scores at close to an elite level and is still a kid. I can't say that he isn't impactful because he's not killing penalties in the third.
- 2sticks1puck

Overall you have to have a net positive impact on your team, one way or another. Laine scores goals. He's VERY good at it. But he doesn't create extra offense for his linemates. In fact, his team last season was routinely outshot while he was on the ice.

As a result, his individual impact on the team wasn't nearly as helpful as it should have been for the number of goals he scored.

Consider, Claude Giroux's impact with his 2-way play results in him having an even strength Goals Above Replacement rating of 11.7 last year, whereas Laine was actually a -1.6 because of how much offense opponents created when he was on the ice.

Laine is still a net positive because of his impact on the PP, but Giroux had a far bigger positive impact on the team as a whole.

Bananas, Laine would be a very welcomed addition. Now the price is the issue. As for what does he bring when not scoring= room and space for everyone else.

Define impactful? One of the Hurricanes most stable players during their successful years in the early mid 2000s was Aaron Ward. He had very little impact on offense, but was just a really good defender. By the same definition, he wasn't impactful either because he only did one thing well.

Laine scores at close to an elite level and is still a kid. I can't say that he isn't impactful because he's not killing penalties in the third.
- 2sticks1puck

Remind me....was Ward seeking close to $10MM per on that :limited" skill set he had? I don't disagree with your premise that a pure snipper can be on a team to balance it but...

He hasn't established that he is a consistent high end sniper yet and he wants to be paid like he's one on the top players in the league...and be paid like that right now while there are questions.

I just think two things happened, teams gameplanned for him. He wasn't sneaking up on anyone anymore and since the Jets were/are one of the top teams in the league now, no one is looking past them as a whole. The other thing is that he went through a slump like every other player in NHL history has gone through at some point.

Was his slump bad? Yes. Was it probably worse because he's really only there to score? You bet. However, i have zero doubt that he will bounce back this year.

He's not nearly as good as Ovy, but imagine if the Caps just decided Ovy was no good because he "only" scored 32 goals in 10-11?
- 2sticks1puck

Except that Ovechkin, even as a young guy, was driving play. Laine doesn't do that. He's a cannon.