Ryan Wilson: The Penguins loss is the Sabres gain in Sam Ventura The Penguins loss is the Sabres gain in Sam Ventura

So Ventura was great for the Penguins analytics, but oversaw many contracts you complained about. All the good was Ventura, all the bad was Rutherford. Got it.

So Ventura was great for the Penguins analytics, but oversaw many contracts you complained about. All the good was Ventura, all the bad was Rutherford. Got it.
- Tmanhockey13

He wouldn't dare criticize his beloved analytical community.

So Ventura was great for the Penguins analytics, but oversaw many contracts you complained about. All the good was Ventura, all the bad was Rutherford. Got it.
- Tmanhockey13

Well of course... in his logic (which could be true), Sam presents JR the data and players... and JR ignores or overpays. I don't believe I've seen anywhere that Sam had a strong hand in the contract negotiations of players.

This dude was hired after the Kessel trade. Which most of us consider the biggest reason the pens won back to back cups. How this guy had anything to do with those cup rings is a complete mystery. He help bring in Daley? Well that was a no brainer trade to dump scuds. Maybe it was hagelin? Again a pretty easy obvious trade. Maybe it was Schultz that he was the tip of the spear on. Well I remember the entire fan base slaggin that trade at the time. Maybe he made crosby and malkin better players with math?

To say this guy is a cup winner and it clearly shows his ability is a (frank)ing joke.

He wouldn't dare criticize his beloved analytical community.
- acdc1206

I dont get it... where is Sam Ventura so highly regarded? The Pens already brought in a replacement for him so this looks to be him leaving with his tail tucked between his legs.

Here is the thing, if you are really good and can provide analysis that can help drive organizational decisions, people will listen eventually. He was with the Pens for what, 6 years? Obviously he has not proved his value so the Pens brought in a replacement. The Pens will not miss him and the Sabres can have fun with him.

I imagine in meetings with player personnel he talks just like RW where he will just throw out a bunch of stats to prove whatever point he wants to make rather than being able to create a structured vision.

Can we talk about something important now, like what everyone is having for dinner?

Sam did great work getting information to JR. How it was used , and I'm not judging, is on JR, because that's Rutherford sat in the org chart.

Now, if you don't have a strong analytics department, you won't be competitive.
I hope the Pens find a strong replacement.

I dont get it... where is Sam Ventura so highly regarded? The Pens already brought in a replacement for him so this looks to be him leaving with his tail tucked between his legs.

Here is the thing, if you are really good and can provide analysis that can help drive organizational decisions, people will listen eventually. He was with the Pens for what, 6 years? Obviously he has not proved his value so the Pens brought in a replacement. The Pens will not miss him and the Sabres can have fun with him.

I imagine in meetings with player personnel he talks just like RW where he will just throw out a bunch of stats to prove whatever point he wants to make rather than being able to create a structured vision.

Can we talk about something important now, like what everyone is having for dinner?
- MacPatty

We know.

I dont get it... where is Sam Ventura so highly regarded? The Pens already brought in a replacement for him so this looks to be him leaving with his tail tucked between his legs.

Here is the thing, if you are really good and can provide analysis that can help drive organizational decisions, people will listen eventually. He was with the Pens for what, 6 years? Obviously he has not proved his value so the Pens brought in a replacement. The Pens will not miss him and the Sabres can have fun with him.

I imagine in meetings with player personnel he talks just like RW where he will just throw out a bunch of stats to prove whatever point he wants to make rather than being able to create a structured vision.

Can we talk about something important now, like what everyone is having for dinner?
- MacPatty

...or his boss could of just been a stubborn old man.

I dont get it... where is Sam Ventura so highly regarded? The Pens already brought in a replacement for him so this looks to be him leaving with his tail tucked between his legs.

Here is the thing, if you are really good and can provide analysis that can help drive organizational decisions, people will listen eventually. He was with the Pens for what, 6 years? Obviously he has not proved his value so the Pens brought in a replacement. The Pens will not miss him and the Sabres can have fun with him.

I imagine in meetings with player personnel he talks just like RW where he will just throw out a bunch of stats to prove whatever point he wants to make rather than being able to create a structured vision.

Can we talk about something important now, like what everyone is having for dinner?
- MacPatty

He served as an interim GM when Karmanos was let go. He was definitely valued.

Sam did great work getting information to JR. How it was used , and I'm not judging, is on JR, because that's Rutherford sat in the org chart.

Now, if you don't have a strong analytics department, you won't be competitive.
I hope the Pens find a strong replacement.
- TartanBill

1. How do you know what great work he did getting info to JR?

2. What proof is there that you need a strong analytics department to be competitive? The two teams that have invested the most energy into analytics are Toronto and Arizona... amazingly, I can't recall the last time either has won a playoff series.

1. How do you know what great work he did getting info to JR?

2. What proof is there that you need a strong analytics department to be competitive? The two teams that have invested the most energy into analytics are Toronto and Arizona... amazingly, I can't recall the last time either has won a playoff series.
- MacPatty

1)At least you prefaced with "imagine" when discussing the internal work of the the Pens front office, am I right?

2) The Islanders have the biggest analytics department

He served as an interim GM when Karmanos was let go. He was definitely valued.
- j.boyd919

??? He served as an interim assistant GM for a cup of coffee. When you have a bunch of turnover, someone has to hold a role. If the Pens valued him, he would still be in Pittsburgh. Burkle has a much bigger wallet than Pegula.

1)At least you prefaced with "imagine" when discussing the internal work of the the Pens front office, am I right?

2) The Islanders have the biggest analytics department
- MattStrat

1. Yes, that is true, I was qualifying that I have no idea what positive things he has done. If someone is stating something as a fact I would like to be enlightened.

2. That is blatantly false. The Leafs are by far an away the biggest spender on analytics. I don't really know about the Islanders but I do know that Lamoriello has made comments in the past cautioning against using analytics too much in making hockey decisions.

1. Yes, that is true, I was qualifying that I have no idea what positive things he has done. If someone is stating something as a fact I would like to be enlightened.

2. That is blatantly false. The Leafs are by far an away the biggest spender on analytics. I don't really know about the Islanders but I do know that Lamoriello has made comments in the past cautioning against using analytics too much in making hockey decisions.
- MacPatty

2) You were right, sorry...wrong as well...Leafs have 8 (largest) employed, Isles 6 (2nd largest, tied with Kraken) and Yotes 4 (six other teams with 4) .

??? He served as an interim assistant GM for a cup of coffee. When you have a bunch of turnover, someone has to hold a role. If the Pens valued him, he would still be in Pittsburgh. Burkle has a much bigger wallet than Pegula.
- MacPatty

https://youtu.be/ePwO-1T7it4

??? He served as an interim assistant GM for a cup of coffee. When you have a bunch of turnover, someone has to hold a role. If the Pens valued him, he would still be in Pittsburgh. Burkle has a much bigger wallet than Pegula.
- MacPatty

Burkle 1.5 billion
Pegulas 5.4 billion

Burkle 1.5 billion
Pegulas 5.4 billion
- Anderdog

Not talking about their net worth, talking about how much they are willing to spend within the teams budget. They fired the entire scouting staff to save money going into a rebuild.

The Penguins as an organization have turned away from analytics.
I cant presume to know how large or small a roll Ventura or Karmanos had when they were here.
But I do know the Pens hired Burke who has a strong disdain for the analytics community. We also know Burke has publicly stated he wants to get away from speed and skill and move toward size size and more size. It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together.
The Pens need to get on board with analytics before they get left in the dust by the rest of the league. In no way does that mean they need to go full Coyotes and hire an analytics only nerd to run hockey ops. But completely disregarding analytics is absolutely the wrong move. I dont understand what is so wrong about using analytics to help evaluate what you see with your own eyes, especially when the numbers and stats dont lie.

Remember that blog that RW wrote when Jason Botterill left?


This has a similar flavor...

The Pens need to get on board with analytics before they get left in the dust by the rest of the league. In no way does that mean they need to go full Coyotes and hire an analytics only nerd to run hockey ops. But completely disregarding analytics is absolutely the wrong move. I dont understand what is so wrong about using analytics to help evaluate what you see with your own eyes, especially when the numbers and stats dont lie.
- Amanion

I think it is important to us analytics. But I could care less about the majority of on ice advanced statistics. The focus of analytics should be to build out scenario's in player development, regression and how to blend it with contract management. That being said, Analytics is just a small wrinkle in the fabric of the success of an organization.

I'm not saying there is no place for it (I have a background in financial analytics so its a concept I understand) but is much more important to put resources into scouting and game prep than analytics. Analytics are a supporting function, not a leading one.

Not talking about their net worth, talking about how much they are willing to spend within the teams budget. They fired the entire scouting staff to save money going into a rebuild.
- MacPatty

They fired everyone because we have sucked for 10 years
They have traded for expensive players
Ror. Bogo. Kane

They have signed expensive free agents
Leino. Hall eurhoff

Tried signing Babcock to 50 million deal

Put over 1 million in locker room

Cheap is not the problem
Not hiring the right people
And being involved in hockey descion is

Anyways just came here to read up on the guy we hired

And I love me some primanti brothers

I like the gold old fashioned eye test. All these number guys are just that Number guys trying to take the game to a level of the GEEK squad

I like the good old fashioned eye test. All these number guys are just that Number guys trying to take the game to a level of the GEEK squad
- broncohorvath