Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Lose on Long Island, Quick Hits for Oct. 3

Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Lose on Long Island, Quick Hits for Oct. 3
- bmeltzer

Thanks Bill

This team is going to absolutely SUCK this year.

Thanks Bill,

I have to say that this training camp is reminding me more and more of the camp right before Lavvy was fired. I am not saying that Torts is in danger, but the seeming detatchment, not implimenting systems from day one, not being on the bench during the games to this point...just doesn't feel good...I hope I am wrong.

Thanks Bill,

I have to say that this training camp is reminding me more and more of the camp right before Lavvy was fired. I am not saying that Torts is in danger, but the seeming detatchment, not implimenting systems from day one, not being on the bench during the games to this point...just doesn't feel good...I hope I am wrong.
- wbon22

this team plays like how I feel about them

apathetic

Bill,

Could you discuss in-depth the pros/cons of putting or not putting a player (ex: Ellis) on LTIR?

there really isn't much positive to talk about except frost is looking better

Bill,

Could you discuss in-depth the pros/cons of putting or not putting a player (ex: Ellis) on LTIR?
- rmedaska

I don't think they're going to have a choice unless they can find other ways to get below the cap ceiling. But the main pro is that the can get the LTIR allowance to exceed the cap by up to the AAV of the player(s) placed on LTIR for the duration of the time the player(s) are not medically cleared to play. The two main cons: 1) You can't bank any cap space unlike teams rhat are below the cap ceiling and 2) It's a major risk of running into end-of-season overages and resulting cap penalties the next season.

Why not being able to bank space is a big deal: Let's say you have $2 million of cap space below the ceiling. Since the cap is prorated daily, the $2 million of day one cap space becomes the equivalent of $4 million of space at mid-season and even more than that by trade deadline day if it's maintained. You can bring in higher-priced talent via trade later in the season when you can bank space.

Defensive structure is well and good but whether you lose 2-1 or 5-2, you still lost. No Couts, no Ellis, probably no Farabee (at least at the start); who is going to score for this team? You aren’t going to go very far if you can only generate sustained pressure with a 5 on 3 advantage.

I’ll be truly surprised if this team breaks 72 points and scores more than 200 goals. Hell, if they hit 80 points with this roster, Torts deserves to be coach of the year.

Thanks Bill!

Also thank you for helping to point out that frost is having a sneakily effective camp, much to the dismay of many posters in here

Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Lose on Long Island, Quick Hits for Oct. 3
- bmeltzer

This might be the most uneven and unorganized camp I’ve ever seen. No picks on the first day, which translated well into the games we’ve watched. Couturier, Farabee, Atkinson and Hart are hurt. That’s fine. Where the hell is Provorov and Konency? Torts was suppose to coach Saturday, which never happened. Guys like Adam Brooks and Hayden Hodgson or whatever should have been sent down like Thursday. Like, what are we doing here? Are we going to see a line up that looks remotely like an NHL line up on Tuesday?

This might be the most uneven and unorganized camp I’ve ever seen. No picks on the first day, which translated well into the games we’ve watched. Couturier, Farabee, Atkinson and Hart are hurt. That’s fine. Where the hell is Provorov and Konency? Torts was suppose to coach Saturday, which never happened. Guys like Adam Brooks and Hayden Hodgson or whatever should have been sent down like Thursday. Like, what are we doing here? Are we going to see a line up that looks remotely like an NHL line up on Tuesday?
- SuperSchennBros

I don't think camp has been disorganized. I do think 70 players in camp at the beginning was too many.

There has been a specific purpose to each day. But there has been lots and lots of skating/conditioning so far -- which DOES pay a dividend if you keep at it, while other teams back off early -- and only one day of in-depth systems work (apart from video sessions). Add in all the upper-lineup injuries. It's definitely played out during games where they can't move the puck --- the puck always moves faster than anyone can skate -- and they seem low on energy.

That will happen when you have a no-pucks 30 min skating test on day one followed by a day 2 scrimmage plus 2-on-2 and 3-on-3 rush-heavy practice plus a conditiong skate plus off-ice dryland training on Day 2, a game night on Game 3 (with a practice for the non-game guys) on Day 3, plus a scrimmage/on-ice practice/conditioning skate on Day 4. One off-day then back-to-back game nights. One off-day then a practice (first systems day) plus conditioning skate, then back-to-back game day/ nights. Doesn't make for very energetic games or ready evaluation, as Tortorella himself readily admits.

They've defended better and generally gotten good goaltending. So that's a start. But even with injuries aside and it being preseason, the offense needs a ton of work to even get to the upper end of the bottom one third.

This might be the most uneven and unorganized camp I’ve ever seen. No picks on the first day, which translated well into the games we’ve watched. Couturier, Farabee, Atkinson and Hart are hurt. That’s fine. Where the hell is Provorov and Konency? Torts was suppose to coach Saturday, which never happened. Guys like Adam Brooks and Hayden Hodgson or whatever should have been sent down like Thursday. Like, what are we doing here? Are we going to see a line up that looks remotely like an NHL line up on Tuesday?
- SuperSchennBros

Provorov got banged up last Wednesday. He took a maintenance day after the team's first total off-day and then was held out on Sunday as a precaution.

Not sure why TK only played one preseason game (last Tue). He did get banged up -- if you recall, he wiped out after scoring his goal, missed his final two shifts of the period then returned for the rest. But he's practiced daily since then and looked fine. I'd assume it's just precautionary. If so, he'd probably play tomorrow in the preseason finale.

I don't think camp has been disorganized. I do think 70 players in camp at the beginning was too many.

There has been a specific purpose to each day. But there has been lots and lots of skating/conditioning so far -- which DOES pay a dividend if you keep at it, while other teams back off early -- and only one day of in-depth systems work (apart from video sessions). Add in all the upper-lineup injuries. It's definitely played out during games where they can't move the puck --- the puck always moves faster than anyone can skate -- and they seem low on energy.

That will happen when you have a no-pucks 30 min skating test on day one followed by a day 2 scrimmage plus 2-on-2 and 3-on-3 rush-heavy practice plus a conditiong skate plus off-ice dryland training on Day 2, a game night on Game 3 (with a practice for the non-game guys) on Day 3, plus a scrimmage/on-ice practice/conditioning skate on Day 4. One off-day then back-to-back game nights. One off-day then a practice (first systems day) plus conditioning skate, then back-to-back game day/ nights. Doesn't make for very energetic games or ready evaluation, as Tortorella himself readily admits.

They've defended better and generally gotten good goaltending. So that's a start. But even with injuries aside and it being preseason, the offense needs a ton of work to even get to the upper end of the bottom one third.
- bmeltzer

Thank you for the insight but where are Provorov and Konency?

Provorov got banged up last Wednesday. He took a maintenance day after the team's first total off-day and then was held out on Sunday as a precaution.

Not sure why TK only played one preseason game (last Tue). He did get banged up -- if you recall, he wiped out after scoring his goal, missed his final two shifts of the period then returned for the rest. But he's practiced daily since then and looked fine. I'd assume it's just precautionary. If so, he'd probably play tomorrow in the preseason finale.
- bmeltzer

Ok thank you! It’s just been a strange camp.

Bill. Do you think there’s a chance cates takes the 2 c position with coots done?

I don't think they're going to have a choice unless they can find other ways to get below the cap ceiling. But the main pro is that the can get the LTIR allowance to exceed the cap by up to the AAV of the player(s) placed on LTIR for the duration of the time the player(s) are not medically cleared to play. The two main cons: 1) You can't bank any cap space unlike teams rhat are below the cap ceiling and 2) It's a major risk of running into end-of-season overages and resulting cap penalties the next season.

Why not being able to bank space is a big deal: Let's say you have $2 million of cap space below the ceiling. Since the cap is prorated daily, the $2 million of day one cap space becomes the equivalent of $4 million of space at mid-season and even more than that by trade deadline day if it's maintained. You can bring in higher-priced talent via trade later in the season when you can bank space.
- bmeltzer

No worries the flyers management staff is top-notch - they are on it

Funny how Frost gets scrutinized while Tippet gets a pass. At least to me.

I don't think they're going to have a choice unless they can find other ways to get below the cap ceiling. But the main pro is that the can get the LTIR allowance to exceed the cap by up to the AAV of the player(s) placed on LTIR for the duration of the time the player(s) are not medically cleared to play. The two main cons: 1) You can't bank any cap space unlike teams rhat are below the cap ceiling and 2) It's a major risk of running into end-of-season overages and resulting cap penalties the next season.

Why not being able to bank space is a big deal: Let's say you have $2 million of cap space below the ceiling. Since the cap is prorated daily, the $2 million of day one cap space becomes the equivalent of $4 million of space at mid-season and even more than that by trade deadline day if it's maintained. You can bring in higher-priced talent via trade later in the season when you can bank space.
- bmeltzer

Another exmaple of how piss poor this President/GM has run this team into the ground.

Bill. Do you think there’s a chance cates takes the 2 c position with coots done?
- Peter Richards

There's a chance, yes. He prefers playing a wing but will center if asked.

The amount of dumb moves made by Fletcher over the last 18 months are mind blowing.

Giving up a 2nd to unload Ghost: unnecessary
Acquiring Risto: stupid
Extending Risto: beyond stupid
Wasting 3 picks on TDA: pointless
Signing Nic D: also pointless

And, the rancid cherry on the diarrhea sundae: having virtually no cap space while simultaneously being a bottom feeder team. Truly pathetic.

Funny how Frost gets scrutinized while Tippet gets a pass. At least to me.
- furio16

It's because he is s ginger and philly loves their gingers

The amount of dumb moves made by Fletcher over the last 18 months are mind blowing.

Giving up a 2nd to unload Ghost: unnecessary
Acquiring Risto: stupid
Extending Risto: beyond stupid
Wasting 3 picks on TDA: pointless
Signing Nic D: also pointless

And, the rancid cherry on the diarrhea sundae: having virtually no cap space while simultaneously being a bottom feeder team. Truly pathetic.
- BiggE

what's the point of repeating this daily though? The team is what it is. You just point and laugh

Doesn't make for very energetic games or ready evaluation, as Tortorella himself readily admits.
-Bill Meltzer

So why does Tort's insist on so much conditioning if he knows it blocks the staff's ability to evaluate players? Its OK to emphasize conditioning, but can't that be done throughout the early part of the season vs. the first week of camp?

The amount of dumb moves made by Fletcher over the last 18 months are mind blowing.

Giving up a 2nd to unload Ghost: unnecessary
Acquiring Risto: stupid
Extending Risto: beyond stupid
Wasting 3 picks on TDA: pointless
Signing Nic D: also pointless

And, the rancid cherry on the diarrhea sundae: having virtually no cap space while simultaneously being a bottom feeder team. Truly pathetic.
- BiggE

it was two seconds to jettison ghost