Ben Shelley: Blown leads, reliance on goaltending are issues on Islanders' point streak

I have to say I do not usually agree with Ben's posts, but I have to agree with this one.

Lambert acknowledged the recent issue but stopped short of defining it as a reoccurring tendency of his team through the first ten games of the season. "We're certainly hoping it's not a trend," said Lambert. "We've given away a couple of multi-goal leads, certainly not a recipe for success. Is it a trend? No, it's too early, but certainly something we need to make sure doesn't become a trend."

It is too early. This team cannot be given the leash it once had. Saturday night marked the fourth time in seven home games that the Islanders have blown a two-goal lead.

Lambert acknowledged the recent issue but stopped short of defining it as a reoccurring tendency of his team through the first ten games of the season. "We're certainly hoping it's not a trend," said Lambert. "We've given away a couple of multi-goal leads, certainly not a recipe for success. Is it a trend? No, it's too early, but certainly something we need to make sure doesn't become a trend."

It is too early. This team cannot be given the leash it once had. Saturday night marked the fourth time in seven home games that the Islanders have blown a two-goal lead.
- Nfdbulldawg

With the lack of speed and skill. The Islanders run into trouble when teams really turn up the heat in the 3rd period. Maybe a coaching change can help, but it does not address the real issue.

Lambert acknowledged the recent issue but stopped short of defining it as a reoccurring tendency of his team through the first ten games of the season. "We're certainly hoping it's not a trend," said Lambert. "We've given away a couple of multi-goal leads, certainly not a recipe for success. Is it a trend? No, it's too early, but certainly something we need to make sure doesn't become a trend."

It is too early. This team cannot be given the leash it once had. Saturday night marked the fourth time in seven home games that the Islanders have blown a two-goal lead.
- Nfdbulldawg

Kind of too late for that.

quote=Cptmjl]Disagree. Well if Lameriello really believes this is a Stanley Cup roster why wouldn’t he let trotz finish out his last year and promote lambert the following year? Trotz recently said again he wasn’t happy about getting fired. If you think this is a contending roster why would you not give the roster the best chance to succeed with a coach who has already done it? That’s on Lou.

Carry-over
My take on Trotz's firing was a combo of a few things. When Trotz took time for his mother's passing, word was that he really was hedging on coming back at all. Trotz was up for the end of his contract and did not appear firmly committed to extending his contract. Word also was that at the end of season exit interviews, several players expressed frustration with Trotz and his system suggesting they needed a 'new voice'. I think the combo of this forced Lou's hand to jump at Barry's successor, who would have been highly sought after.
Barry didn't exactly jump at offers to get back into coaching after his dismissal and has recently said he doesn't want to coach again.
I just don't think it's as cut and dried as ',You failed, you're fired'

With the lack of speed and skill. The Islanders run into trouble when teams really turn up the heat in the 3rd period. Maybe a coaching change can help, but it does not address the real issue.
- ses111

A good coach can find a way to adjust his game plan to their abilities. Does it make it easier when you are dealing with talent yes. But look at the Leaf's they have speed and skill. They have had it since the JT trade and what have they won.

Again, a good coach can adjust his style to the players he is dealt. No F'n reason you blow leads at home. Lock it down. I am tired of hearing lack of speed and skill.

A good coach can find a way to adjust his game plan to their abilities. Does it make it easier when you are dealing with talent yes. But look at the Leaf's they have speed and skill. They have had it since the JT trade and what have they won.

Again, a good coach can adjust his style to the players he is dealt. No F'n reason you blow leads at home. Lock it down. I am tired of hearing lack of speed and skill.
- Nfdbulldawg

Bingo!

My take on Trotz's firing was a combo of a few things. When Trotz took time for his mother's passing, word was that he really was hedging on coming back at all. Trotz was up for the end of his contract and did not appear firmly committed to extending his contract.

I heard something similar. People forget that he has a son with special needs. It was probably a lot on his wife to due alone.

Word also was that at the end of season exit interviews, several players expressed frustration with Trotz and his system suggesting they needed a 'new voice'. I think the combo of this forced Lou's hand to jump at Barry's successor, who would have been highly sought after.

Lou probably wanted to extend him and not go into the season as a lame duck Coach. As far as a new voice, Trots was brought in to setup a system based upon what he had and that is what he did. Did it piss some people off, yea I am sure it did. He took a blue collar team and brought them success. The players that were female dogin are either gone or still are not producing. Lastly, Yes Lane was sought after no doubt, but he is like a first round draft pick. Until the rubber meets the road you do not know what you have.

Barry didn't exactly jump at offers to get back into coaching after his dismissal and has recently said he doesn't want to coach again. I just don't think it's as cut and dried as ',You failed, you're fired'.

He wanted a front office job which would minimize his travel and allow him to be with his family more. Bottom line is Barry could not commit to Lou so Lou moved on.

A good coach can find a way to adjust his game plan to their abilities. Does it make it easier when you are dealing with talent yes. But look at the Leaf's they have speed and skill. They have had it since the JT trade and what have they won.

Again, a good coach can adjust his style to the players he is dealt. No F'n reason you blow leads at home. Lock it down. I am tired of hearing lack of speed and skill.
- Nfdbulldawg

Speed and skill is a huge deal in today’s NHL. Just look at the Avs. Barry had things pretty much locked down and this team still lost twice to Tampa and once to the Canes under Barry. This is not to say Lane is a good coach and cannot coach better. This team still needs more speed and skill to win a Cup whether you want to hear it or not. Defensive play has not been the overall downfall of this team. If you cannot spend more time in the offensive zone, you are putting a lot of pressure on your goalies and defense. Lou can fire Lane, but which available coach will take this team to a Cup? The Islanders defenseman are questionable as well with Mayfield and Aho and Pelech and Pulock having games that they struggle.

Yesterday Ek noted that NYI was dangerous once they had the lead, but the problem with NYI is they couldn't get the lead because the offense is anemic. Hence the rumours for Garland and Nylander.

I noted that NYI has had the lead in 9 out of 10 games...but have blown 4 of those games. That seems to be what you are saying to. Just odd that the experts can't agree on the problem. I think Pageau + Wahlstrom for Nylander would help both parties.

Yesterday Ek noted that NYI was dangerous once they had the lead, but the problem with NYI is they couldn't get the lead because the offense is anemic. Hence the rumours for Garland and Nylander.

I noted that NYI has had the lead in 9 out of 10 games...but have blown 4 of those games. That seems to be what you are saying to. Just odd that the experts can't agree on the problem. I think Pageau + Wahlstrom for Nylander would help both parties.
- Cooleus

I'm not sure Nystrom necessarily cures what ails us. We definitely could use his offensive talent but the Isles, like much of last year, are having a lot of defensive breakdowns, largely to do with poor awareness and communication. The tying goal yesterday was a pristine example. Kotkaniemi was able to glide straight through the slot from the top of the faceoff circles, through the Isles box and no one blinked at him as he tapped in the feed from behind the net. Four guys watching Svechnikov behind the net. Terrible awareness and communication. It's been a repetitive issue for two seasons now

Gotta say getting a chance to see the Isles love and tracking a few guys away from the play, I'm really impressed by Holmstrom's game. He's sneaky good

I'm not sure Nystrom necessarily cures what ails us. We definitely could use his offensive talent but the Isles, like much of last year, are having a lot of defensive breakdowns, largely to do with poor awareness and communication. The tying goal yesterday was a pristine example. Kotkaniemi was able to glide straight through the slot from the top of the faceoff circles, through the Isles box and no one blinked at him as he tapped in the feed from behind the net. Four guys watching Svechnikov behind the net. Terrible awareness and communication. It's been a repetitive issue for two seasons now
- keaner17

Players have very little fear of being benched as they know the team has not been willing or able to rely on younger players. The long-term contracts have made it very difficult for any sort of meaningful roster turnover. If the goal is to win the Cup, the Islanders and many teams are in a tough spot and it's very tough on the fans. If ownership is happy with just being a bubble playoff team, then it's all good.

[quote=keaner17]
Im not saying it’s cut and dry but Trotz had another year on his contract. Has stated numerous times he wasn’t happy about being fired even recently. Stated he was expecting to coach the last year of his contract. He didn’t because Lou fired him and hired Lambert.

All of these other things you’re mentioning with having to find a coach when the contract is expired etc is all true but the reality is the guy wanted to finish his last season. He said that. Anything else is speculative.

[quote=Cptmjl]

I have no doubt playing Barry's system was not easy and despite any complaints from certain players, Barry earned the right to finish out his contract. I thought Barry did a great job with this team. There are always decisions that can be questioned with any coach in any sport and it's part of the business.

[quote=ses111]
My main point is that if Lou really thought this was a Stanley cup contending roster he had a coach who won one and had this team close to one under contract for another year. The having to find another coach oh nosies stuff is all static when you’re a GM and you think you have a Stanley cup roster you do whatever it takes within that window to make it happen. The bottom line is Lou didn’t feel Trotz could make it happen or he would’ve finished out his contract.

My other point is if Lou, Ledecky, and Malkin did Trotz a favor and inexplicably the owners of a hockey team just wanted to chuck an additional 4 million at him because they are great guys I doubt very much Trotz would be running around expressing his displeasure about getting fired and wanting to fulfill his contract.

Let’s not forget Lou himself said he felt the team;
“Needed a new voice”

That’s more or less saying the coach lost the room which it seemed like he kind of did. Lou fired trotz I’m not really sure why people have a hard time accepting that.

He also thought Lambert was the better option. That’s why he hired him. Lol. There wasn’t any divine intervention with his decision. God didn’t force his hand. It was his decision and he owns it. I have zero idea why anyone would think otherwise.

Question. If Lambert was perceived to have been doing a wonderful job coaching right now and the team were playing fantastic would these same people(excluding Keaner on this one)be heaping praise on Lou for his excellent decision on firing his old Stanley Cup winning coach and hiring Lambert?

I think we know the answer to that and that alone should solve this big mysterious thing for a lot of people on here.

[quote=Cptmjl]

I think it comes back to being afraid to criticize Lou because what he did with the Devils and the two ECF trips and because Garth was so bad. This current Islanders team is very far from those ECF teams, and the situation is very different today. Even Bill got ripped after the dynasty years and Bill Belichick is getting heat now. I think both Lou and Barry should have finished out their contracts and the Islanders going in a different direction. I probably would have seen if Barry wanted to be GM with Islanders, but I'm thinking he wanted to Preds. Ownership should always have possible GM replacements in mind and be prepared to make a move especially when you have a GM that is long in the tooth.

I just don't think the whole Barry v. Lou thing is as black and white as folks want it to be. I don't fault Lou with his decision on Barry because I just think it was a very complex issue that sort of forced Lou's hand. The moment Barry refused to commit to an extension, Lou had to turn his sights beyond just the 2022-23 season. Barry may not have liked the decision for his dismissal, but I do think he likely understood it.

We also have to remember, despite the success of the covid-shortened seasons, it's not as though the Isles were coming off some great effort in Barry's final year. They finished 16 points out of the wildcard spot. Players were complaining about the system and wanted more creativity. I don't think one of these circumstances were enough to warrant letting Barry go, but when considering the whole of things:
1. Barry not interested in committing to the franchise
2. Barry not interested in coaching
3 Tremendous let down season
4. Multiple players complaining about the system (not the first club this has happened at with Barry)
5. Lambert considered a highly desired candidate that would likely get a HC job elsewhere

I can understand WHY things happened as they did. There were plenty of folks here at the time wondering if the Isles could do better with a more offensive system. Additionally, we saw a lot of the same breakdowns impacting the Isles now, happening during Barry's final season as well.

Lou has had far greater failures in other areas IMO. Asset management has been terrible, similarly as it was in Toronto and the end of his NJ term. Finance management has been a mixed bag. Certainly the contracts for Clutter, Martin and even Palmieri (IMO) look bad. I think Lou is still trying to use a winning formula from the 1990s in a very different game today. It can still work to a degree, by keeping a lesser talent in games but ultimately it will fall in the areas where the game's primary emphasis lies.

We're at the twilight of Lou's career here and much of his philosophy. Things are going to change. I don't think Barry being around would have made us much better this year or last, frankly. Changes will have to come

I just don't think the whole Barry v. Lou thing is as black and white as folks want it to be. I don't fault Lou with his decision on Barry because I just think it was a very complex issue that sort of forced Lou's hand. The moment Barry refused to commit to an extension, Lou had to turn his sights beyond just the 2022-23 season. Barry may not have liked the decision for his dismissal, but I do think he likely understood it.

We also have to remember, despite the success of the covid-shortened seasons, it's not as though the Isles were coming off some great effort in Barry's final year. They finished 16 points out of the wildcard spot. Players were complaining about the system and wanted more creativity. I don't think one of these circumstances were enough to warrant letting Barry go, but when considering the whole of things:
1. Barry not interested in committing to the franchise
2. Barry not interested in coaching
3 Tremendous let down season
4. Multiple players complaining about the system (not the first club this has happened at with Barry)
5. Lambert considered a highly desired candidate that would likely get a HC job elsewhere

I can understand WHY things happened as they did. There were plenty of folks here at the time wondering if the Isles could do better with a more offensive system. Additionally, we saw a lot of the same breakdowns impacting the Isles now, happening during Barry's final season as well.

Lou has had far greater failures in other areas IMO. Asset management has been terrible, similarly as it was in Toronto and the end of his NJ term. Finance management has been a mixed bag. Certainly the contracts for Clutter, Martin and even Palmieri (IMO) look bad. I think Lou is still trying to use a winning formula from the 1990s in a very different game today. It can still work to a degree, by keeping a lesser talent in games but ultimately it will fall in the areas where the game's primary emphasis lies.

We're at the twilight of Lou's career here and much of his philosophy. Things are going to change. I don't think Barry being around would have made us much better this year or last, frankly. Changes will have to come
- keaner17

No question the biggest failure by Lou has been the roster and not understanding this is not the trap days of the Devils. Those teams still had a great goalie and two great dmen along with other very solid dmen and very solid two-way forwards.

I think Barry is a great coach, but the big reason his Cup win happened with the Caps is because he had high end forwards. Even with Barry tight checking system, the Caps forwards were able to still score. This was not the case with the Islanders. Islander had playoff success but not enough talent for a Cup.

Pelech practicing today, Mayfield and Horvat are not.

Pelech practicing today, Mayfield and Horvat are not.
- eichiefs9

Injury challenges starting early.

Injury challenges starting early.

- ses111

Stefen Rosner
@stefen_rosner
28s
Bo Horvat is day-to-day, and they'll see about tomorrow.

Scott Mayfield missed practice due to maintenance.

Adam Pelech looked "okay" today, and they'll see if he's good to go for tomorrow.

#Isles

No question the biggest failure by Lou has been the roster and not understanding this is not the trap days of the Devils. Those teams still had a great goalie and two great dmen along with other very solid dmen and very solid two-way forwards.

I think Barry is a great coach, but the big reason his Cup win happened with the Caps is because he had high end forwards. Even with Barry tight checking system, the Caps forwards were able to still score. This was not the case with the Islanders. Islander had playoff success but not enough talent for a Cup.
- ses111

Nobody was questioning whether firing trotz was a failure or not. Nor did we disagree on why it happened. No where did I even give my opinion of the firing or trotz for that matter. The disagreement was on whether Lou was responsible for Trotz’s firing. He is he did it.

End of “debate”.

Nobody was questioning whether firing trotz was a failure or not. Nor did we disagree on why it happened. No where did I even give my opinion of the firing or trotz for that matter. The disagreement was on whether Lou was responsible for Trotz’s firing. He is he did it.

End of “debate”.
- Cptmjl