Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 12/29 @ SEA, Phantoms, WJC Update

Torts and the Dubois Situation
Tortorella is constantly criticized for alienating his players. Several press reports blamed him after star center Pierre-Luc Dubois demanded a trade in January (“Pierre-Luc Dubois is another star his coach has thrown away”). “Tortorella has always used a tough-love approach and, while it doesn’t work for all, just look at how things panned out between him and center Pierre-Luc Dubois,” wrote Andrew Steele-Davis for Puck Prose.

But those comments aren’t justified. Tortorella was not the reason Dubois wanted a trade from Columbus. How do we know? Here’s what Dubois had to say:

“He’s a hard coach, I can take it. Nothing’s personal. I grew up with a dad who’s a coach and he told me if a coach challenges you, it’s never personal; he just wants what’s best for you. And that’s how I see ‘Torts’ and I have nothing but respect for him.

“Dubois doesn’t blame Tortorella after trade from Blue Jackets to Jets,” Tim Campbell, NHL.com Staff, Jan. 24, 2021
“I have nothing but respect for him.”

Does that sound like a player who has been “thrown away” by his coach? Do those words sound like Tortorella’s “tough-love approach” didn’t work?

What His Players Had to Say About Torts
Here’s what the Blue Jackets players had to say about their former coach in the exit interviews (listed alphabetically):

Cam Atkinson:
“Torts was my coach for the last six years, so not matter what, it’s going to be different. The expectations of training camp, of how you practice, and how you approach a game, I think that’s definitely helped me become the player I am today, for sure, there’s no question. How you prepare and stuff like that. So, whoever (general manager) Jarmo (Kekäläinen) does bring in its, uh, I know how to prepare, I know how to get ready for a game, and practice, and training camp, and stuff like that. So, as well as every other guy that’s been here, that’s been playing under Torts for at least two to the six years that he’s been here, so, um, yeah. It’s going to be very tough to replace John Tortorella. Just look at his resume.”

[Atkinson also talked about the culture of expecting to win.] “It started with Torts and that trickle-down effect for the players and everyone believing and buying in, and that brick-by-brick mentality. I think Torts has done a great job at instilling that within our system and the leaders that, um, we know what it takes to win.”


[And there’s this comment.] “It’s been six years together. Learned a lot from him. Definitely grown, not just as a hockey player, but as a person. That’s all you want as a player. A coach that trusts you,” (from John Tortorella won’t be back as coach of Columbus Blue Jackets)

Oliver Bjorkstrand:
“As far as obviously Torts, yeah, it’s going to be different, too. He’s obviously going to be missed. But at the same time, he’s the only coach I’ve had in the NHL, so I also excited to try something new and see what that is. We’ve got to remember a lot of the stuff Torts taught us here about hard work, battling, um, just the right way to play.”

Max Domi:
“I think Torts did a great job of holding us all on board here and kind of steering the ship in the direction that he knew he could. I think Torts is a great human being. I certainly learned a lot from him and really appreciate everything he did. For me personally, it sucks when you have a short little window to showcase you as a human, as a person, to your coach. I definitely (chuckles) let him down a little bit to the way I played, so I take that upon myself. But I feel very thankful that I had a chance to play for a future Hall of Fame coach, for sure. He’s a special guy, and I definitely didn’t get to know him as well as I would have liked to. I really appreciate everything he did for me.”

Boone Jenner:
“(Tortorella) has put a big impact on this club, a lot of guys in the room, myself, the whole organization. So, you know, I think Torts mostly talks about the process, and I think that’s what I’m going to miss the most with him. The stuff we’ve went through over the past six years with him, the ups and the downs, all that kind of brought us together and gave us some good success, and I’m going to miss that, for sure. Going through it together, with him, with the guys in the room, when you look back, it’s pretty special, and I’m pretty proud to be a part of it, so, yeah, I’m going to miss that for sure.”

Seth Jones:
”He always found a way to motivate us with a speech. Obviously, he was a very fiery coach and a very emotional coach at times, but at the end of the day he wanted to win just as bad as we did. And he was one of the most passionate coaches I’ve ever played for. And he’s definitely helped my development through these five years I’ve been here, tremendously. The player I’ve grown into, he’s definitely had a key role in that.”

Joonas Korpisalo:
[When asked by my THW colleague Mark Scheig: How has Tortorella helped you?] “Bigtime. It’s six years with him. I was 21 years old when he came in. I was a rookie back then. Just how he handled everything here. I always respected him, and I think me growing as a player and more as a person with him, you know. What he expected of me every day. Every day I was coming to the rink, and he was being honest every time. It grew me as a person a lot, and just being thankful for him being always honest. I respect him a lot. Great season with him – I learned a lot, for sure.”

Elvis Merzlikins:
“Great coach. Great person. Sad that I’m not going to have (the) opportunity to work with him anymore now. He teached me a lot. He was the guy who settled me down and gave me the chance to understand the league. He was the guy who calmed me down, who gave me the opportunity to grow as a man, even outside of hockey, so I’m really, really thankful for that help and, obviously, I’m going to miss that kind of personality.”

Jack Roslovic:
“To have him there to help me grow, I think it went well. He definitely helped me out. It was definitely, you know, harder times than not, so it was one way that I like to learn.”

Zach Werenski:
“Personally, I love Torts. Me and Torts went through it. My first year I came in, it was smooth sailing. My second and third years, I had some struggles defensively. He was hard on me; he pushed me to be better. And I think as of the last few years, just going through that process with him, becoming a better hockey player, seeing what he means to the room, the city, the organization. I’m very honored to have played for him for the first five years of my career, and, you know, it was awesome. I loved playing for him for every minute. And I think it will be weird. I’ve only had one coach in the NHL, so I’m not too sure what to expect with a different one, but obviously, he set the bar high, and, like I said, I really enjoyed playing for him. It’s tough when your only coach and a guy you have that much respect for moves on, but I wish him nothing but the best. Like I said, it was awesome to play for him, and it was an honor.”

The players “learned from him,” and he “taught” them and helped them “grow.” He “will be missed” and has the players’ “respect.” He’ll be “tough to replace.” That is how his players describe Tortorella.

Not Sucking Up
We know this wasn’t an attempt to curry favor, because they knew he wouldn’t be their coach next season. Yes, they could be reunited years later. It happened to the 2020-21 Blue Jackets. Michael Del Zotto was a rookie with the New York Rangers when he was first coached by Tortorella. Torts recalled that it wasn’t an easy time:

I had Del Z when he came in as a first-year player in New York — full of swagger, sometimes a little bit too much swagger. (He) went through the process with me. Sent him down, wasn’t happy — all that stuff that we always talk about when you’re developing with a young guy, he went through it with me.

“Del Zotto, Tortorella together again with Blue Jackets,” Jeff Svoboda, BlueJackets.com, Jan. 17, 2021
Here’s what Del Zotto had to say about Torts:

“The thing with Torts, you know where you stand with him. He’s brutally honest. If you can take it, if you have thick skin, there’s no other coach you’d rather play for. When you play for coaches where you don’t know where you stand, it’s tough to have a conversation with (them). You’re not sure if they’re telling the truth or not with you. With him, you know where you stand every day, and that’s very hard to find. He wears his heart on his sleeve, too. He would do anything for his players.”

“Del Zotto, Tortorella together again with Blue Jackets,” Jeff Svoboda, BlueJackets.com, Jan. 17, 2021
“He would do anything for his players.”

That may not be the version of Tortorella that the media likes to portray, but it’s the one his players know.

see my post above.

MJL, are you saying all of these guys are wrong and you are right?

all of these comments were made about a coach they knew was already leaving - so they aren't just saying things for favorable treatment.

these are things that are consistently dismissed by you. nothing illogical or unintelligent about what I said at all.

but you'll see what you want to see i guess


these are some really good players too, not some 4th line plugs just happy to be getting minutes. does their personal experience with the guy hold no water compared to your "zero" experience with the guy?

give your head a shake

Seattle is not the team that they were last year. Even though they have the advantage of not playing last night. I think the Flyers win this one.

Seattle is not the team that they were last year. Even though they have the advantage of not playing last night. I think the Flyers win this one.
- MJL

"no one will challenge me!"

you mentioned there's plenty of players that hate Tortorella. I provide the above. You ignore it.

more of the same from you... you've got nothing


wilting like a flower

Cutter looked like sh!t today

Cutter looked like sh!t today
- ClaudeFather

Not one of his better games for sure.

Torts and the Dubois Situation
Tortorella is constantly criticized for alienating his players. Several press reports blamed him after star center Pierre-Luc Dubois demanded a trade in January (“Pierre-Luc Dubois is another star his coach has thrown away”). “Tortorella has always used a tough-love approach and, while it doesn’t work for all, just look at how things panned out between him and center Pierre-Luc Dubois,” wrote Andrew Steele-Davis for Puck Prose.

But those comments aren’t justified. Tortorella was not the reason Dubois wanted a trade from Columbus. How do we know? Here’s what Dubois had to say:

“He’s a hard coach, I can take it. Nothing’s personal. I grew up with a dad who’s a coach and he told me if a coach challenges you, it’s never personal; he just wants what’s best for you. And that’s how I see ‘Torts’ and I have nothing but respect for him.

“Dubois doesn’t blame Tortorella after trade from Blue Jackets to Jets,” Tim Campbell, NHL.com Staff, Jan. 24, 2021
“I have nothing but respect for him.”

Does that sound like a player who has been “thrown away” by his coach? Do those words sound like Tortorella’s “tough-love approach” didn’t work?

What His Players Had to Say About Torts
Here’s what the Blue Jackets players had to say about their former coach in the exit interviews (listed alphabetically):

Cam Atkinson:
“Torts was my coach for the last six years, so not matter what, it’s going to be different. The expectations of training camp, of how you practice, and how you approach a game, I think that’s definitely helped me become the player I am today, for sure, there’s no question. How you prepare and stuff like that. So, whoever (general manager) Jarmo (Kekäläinen) does bring in its, uh, I know how to prepare, I know how to get ready for a game, and practice, and training camp, and stuff like that. So, as well as every other guy that’s been here, that’s been playing under Torts for at least two to the six years that he’s been here, so, um, yeah. It’s going to be very tough to replace John Tortorella. Just look at his resume.”


- anti-lame[Atkinson also talked about the culture of expecting to win.] “It started with Torts and that trickle-down effect for the players and everyone believing and buying in, and that brick-by-brick mentality. I think Torts has done a great job at instilling that within our system and the leaders that, um, we know what it takes to win.”


[And there’s this comment.] “It’s been six years together. Learned a lot from him. Definitely grown, not just as a hockey player, but as a person. That’s all you want as a player. A coach that trusts you,” (from John Tortorella won’t be back as coach of Columbus Blue Jackets)

Oliver Bjorkstrand:
“As far as obviously Torts, yeah, it’s going to be different, too. He’s obviously going to be missed. But at the same time, he’s the only coach I’ve had in the NHL, so I also excited to try something new and see what that is. We’ve got to remember a lot of the stuff Torts taught us here about hard work, battling, um, just the right way to play.”

Max Domi:
“I think Torts did a great job of holding us all on board here and kind of steering the ship in the direction that he knew he could. I think Torts is a great human being. I certainly learned a lot from him and really appreciate everything he did. For me personally, it sucks when you have a short little window to showcase you as a human, as a person, to your coach. I definitely (chuckles) let him down a little bit to the way I played, so I take that upon myself. But I feel very thankful that I had a chance to play for a future Hall of Fame coach, for sure. He’s a special guy, and I definitely didn’t get to know him as well as I would have liked to. I really appreciate everything he did for me.”

Boone Jenner:
“(Tortorella) has put a big impact on this club, a lot of guys in the room, myself, the whole organization. So, you know, I think Torts mostly talks about the process, and I think that’s what I’m going to miss the most with him. The stuff we’ve went through over the past six years with him, the ups and the downs, all that kind of brought us together and gave us some good success, and I’m going to miss that, for sure. Going through it together, with him, with the guys in the room, when you look back, it’s pretty special, and I’m pretty proud to be a part of it, so, yeah, I’m going to miss that for sure.”

Seth Jones:
”He always found a way to motivate us with a speech. Obviously, he was a very fiery coach and a very emotional coach at times, but at the end of the day he wanted to win just as bad as we did. And he was one of the most passionate coaches I’ve ever played for. And he’s definitely helped my development through these five years I’ve been here, tremendously. The player I’ve grown into, he’s definitely had a key role in that.”

Joonas Korpisalo:
[When asked by my THW colleague Mark Scheig: How has Tortorella helped you?] “Bigtime. It’s six years with him. I was 21 years old when he came in. I was a rookie back then. Just how he handled everything here. I always respected him, and I think me growing as a player and more as a person with him, you know. What he expected of me every day. Every day I was coming to the rink, and he was being honest every time. It grew me as a person a lot, and just being thankful for him being always honest. I respect him a lot. Great season with him – I learned a lot, for sure.”

Elvis Merzlikins:
“Great coach. Great person. Sad that I’m not going to have (the) opportunity to work with him anymore now. He teached me a lot. He was the guy who settled me down and gave me the chance to understand the league. He was the guy who calmed me down, who gave me the opportunity to grow as a man, even outside of hockey, so I’m really, really thankful for that help and, obviously, I’m going to miss that kind of personality.”

Jack Roslovic:
“To have him there to help me grow, I think it went well. He definitely helped me out. It was definitely, you know, harder times than not, so it was one way that I like to learn.”

Zach Werenski:
“Personally, I love Torts. Me and Torts went through it. My first year I came in, it was smooth sailing. My second and third years, I had some struggles defensively. He was hard on me; he pushed me to be better. And I think as of the last few years, just going through that process with him, becoming a better hockey player, seeing what he means to the room, the city, the organization. I’m very honored to have played for him for the first five years of my career, and, you know, it was awesome. I loved playing for him for every minute. And I think it will be weird. I’ve only had one coach in the NHL, so I’m not too sure what to expect with a different one, but obviously, he set the bar high, and, like I said, I really enjoyed playing for him. It’s tough when your only coach and a guy you have that much respect for moves on, but I wish him nothing but the best. Like I said, it was awesome to play for him, and it was an honor.”

The players “learned from him,” and he “taught” them and helped them “grow.” He “will be missed” and has the players’ “respect.” He’ll be “tough to replace.” That is how his players describe Tortorella.

Not Sucking Up
We know this wasn’t an attempt to curry favor, because they knew he wouldn’t be their coach next season. Yes, they could be reunited years later. It happened to the 2020-21 Blue Jackets. Michael Del Zotto was a rookie with the New York Rangers when he was first coached by Tortorella. Torts recalled that it wasn’t an easy time:

I had Del Z when he came in as a first-year player in New York — full of swagger, sometimes a little bit too much swagger. (He) went through the process with me. Sent him down, wasn’t happy — all that stuff that we always talk about when you’re developing with a young guy, he went through it with me.

“Del Zotto, Tortorella together again with Blue Jackets,” Jeff Svoboda, BlueJackets.com, Jan. 17, 2021
Here’s what Del Zotto had to say about Torts:

“The thing with Torts, you know where you stand with him. He’s brutally honest. If you can take it, if you have thick skin, there’s no other coach you’d rather play for. When you play for coaches where you don’t know where you stand, it’s tough to have a conversation with (them). You’re not sure if they’re telling the truth or not with you. With him, you know where you stand every day, and that’s very hard to find. He wears his heart on his sleeve, too. He would do anything for his players.”

“Del Zotto, Tortorella together again with Blue Jackets,” Jeff Svoboda, BlueJackets.com, Jan. 17, 2021
“He would do anything for his players.”

That may not be the version of Tortorella that the media likes to portray, but it’s the one his players know.

how dare you bring a topic form another threads into this one. Cliff said that is not allowed.

Not one of his better games for sure.
- MBFlyerfan

Who did they play today?

how dare you bring a topic form another threads into this one. Cliff said that is not allowed.
- hello it's me 2050

you mean unless it's saved from a spreadsheet on his desktop?

Who did they play today?
- MJL

wilting


facts don't matter if it doesn't fit the narrative

Isaac Howard wins it in the shootout.

Czechs and still in the shootout. down 1-0 with one shot left.
- MBFlyerfan

I had thought you could tie in the preliminary games, guess not

I had thought you could tie in the preliminary games, guess not
- ClaudeFather

What an entertaining game. I hate entertaining games when the USA is involved lol.

I want blowouts

What an entertaining game. I hate entertaining games when the USA is involved lol.

I want blowouts

- MBFlyerfan

Haha yea was a good watch. Sucked our guy moped around all game but there will be more

this place. 😂😂😂

is there a vegas line on atkinson scoring another goal this season? there should be.

hopefully they pummel the parking meter tonight in seattle.

americans survive in a SO.

I’m in Seattle for the Winter Classic on Jan. 1. Looking forward to my 1st live look at the Flyers at CPA tonight. Hope TK is in.

this place. 😂😂😂

is there a vegas line on atkinson scoring another goal this season? there should be.

hopefully they pummel the parking meter tonight in seattle.

americans survive in a SO.
- hammarby31

LOL yeah, we need a moderator in here. Someone who isnt going to end up like SuperNanny after 3 days with Cartman.

LOL yeah, we need a moderator in here. Someone who isnt going to end up like SuperNanny after 3 days with Cartman.

- MBFlyerfan

Why, for producing facts of how players feel about the coach when we are told players hate playing for him?

Yeah we really need a moderator 😂

Uh oh, someone posted relevant information to a discussion that doesn’t align with my thinking - better get a moderator 😂

Why, for producing facts of how players feel about the coach when we are told players hate playing for him?

Yeah we really need a moderator 😂

Uh oh, someone posted relevant information to a discussion that doesn’t align with my thinking - better get a moderator 😂
- anti-lame

How could you POSSIBLY think I was referring to your post? (which was well researched and thought out by the way.)

How could you POSSIBLY think I was referring to your post? (which was well researched and thought out by the way.)
- MBFlyerfan

if we have to hear about what we gave up for Risto again, should we get a moderator?

Why, for producing facts of how players feel about the coach when we are told players hate playing for him?

Yeah we really need a moderator 😂

Uh oh, someone posted relevant information to a discussion that doesn’t align with my thinking - better get a moderator 😂
- anti-lame

need a moderator lol....such pansies.

Cam last night, soon as he got the puck was looking to get rid of it. I hope this is his rock bottom

Gabe Perreault saved the bacon for USA today. Clutch goal on the last shootout attempt, trailing by one. Sweden giving Canada all they can handle at this moment.
Todays games are far more competitive than they’ve been.

How could you POSSIBLY think I was referring to your post? (which was well researched and thought out by the way.)
- MBFlyerfan

Tortorella has been an NHL coach for over 20 years. He has been a polarizing figure as a coach. There are a ton of players who liked playing for him. Probably overwhelmingly so versus players that didn't like him. Doesn't change the fact that there have been many, many players who didn't like playing for him. Well documented sources state that a player mutiny, led to the Ranger firing him. It is not difficult to use google and find plenty of information, player comments on Tortorella as a coach. It's pretty easy to do.

Here is the main point though. Tortorella being disliked by players, was NEVER my position on why I don't like Tortorella as a coach. I have NEVER stated in a post that Tortorella is universally disliked by players, hated by more than have liked, or any variation of that. Of course, I have discussed that aspect of his career and that there have been players that disliked playing for him but it has never been my main focus on why I dislike Tortorella as a coach. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

My position on Tortorella has always been that I think he is an archaic coach, whose systems and style of play are tilted too much to the defensive side of the game. Does not coach offensive play and transition well enough to be a top contending team. His systems and style of play are limiting in how far a team can go. I also think he is a poor coach in terms of young player development who dislikes high level offensive skill players and favors the grinders and checkers too much. All of my comments on Tortorella are on the public record and well documented.

Even to he point of today, on the other thread that I'd be perfectly willing to overlook some of his issues in how he treats players, if he coaches the team to winning the cup. In a hypothetical sense of course.