Ben Shelley: Islanders drop both games of weekend back-to-back, now on four-game skid

Everyone in the NHL world says you just need to get into the dance and then it's anyone's chance. As much as I want it for this team, I am accepting of the fact that they just do not have it.

I think some major changes need to be made after the season. Some decisions that need to be made with the head not the heart.
1. Clutter and Martin. (Cheaper, younger, stronger, and faster replacements)
2. Hard look at Lee, Palms, Engvall.
3. While he is your most valuable trade asset, Nelson will be around until next trade
deadline. Only way he is moved now is if the offer is too good to pass on.
4. Aho and Mayfield are not the answer. Their plus/ minus is close to double digit
minus. Isles need a better 5,6,7 option next year.
5. Both Sorokin and Varly have had off years. I listened to comments made about
Sorokin yesterday. Yes, at times he has not made the big save as often in the
past however, he has been left high and dry a lot more this year than in years
past as well. Yesterday's game would have been uglier if it were not for him.

This team is finally at the crossroads and how they finish should not matter anymore. Some major changes need to happen if this team wants to contend next year and for years to come.

Everyone in the NHL world says you just need to get into the dance and then it's anyone's chance. As much as I want it for this team, I am accepting of the fact that they just do not have it.

I think some major changes need to be made after the season. Some decisions that need to be made with the head not the heart.
1. Clutter and Martin. (Cheaper, younger, stronger, and faster replacements)
2. Hard look at Lee, Palms, Engvall.
3. While he is your most valuable trade asset, Nelson will be around until next trade
deadline. Only way he is moved now is if the offer is too good to pass on.
4. Aho and Mayfield are not the answer. Their plus/ minus is close to double digit
minus. Isles need a better 5,6,7 option next year.
5. Both Sorokin and Varly have had off years. I listened to comments made about
Sorokin yesterday. Yes, at times he has not made the big save as often in the
past however, he has been left high and dry a lot more this year than in years
past as well. Yesterday's game would have been uglier if it were not for him.

This team is finally at the crossroads and how they finish should not matter anymore. Some major changes need to happen if this team wants to contend next year and for years to come.
- Nfdbulldawg

It's never a good idea to pretty much bring back the same lineup every year. Especially when the team is not good enough. The players have gotten way too comfortable locked into long term deals. Team needs to have strong pro and amateur scouting because they are not good in signing quality UFA's even when they have the Cap room.

Everyone in the NHL world says you just need to get into the dance and then it's anyone's chance. As much as I want it for this team, I am accepting of the fact that they just do not have it.

I think some major changes need to be made after the season. Some decisions that need to be made with the head not the heart.
1. Clutter and Martin. (Cheaper, younger, stronger, and faster replacements)
2. Hard look at Lee, Palms, Engvall.
3. While he is your most valuable trade asset, Nelson will be around until next trade
deadline. Only way he is moved now is if the offer is too good to pass on.
4. Aho and Mayfield are not the answer. Their plus/ minus is close to double digit
minus. Isles need a better 5,6,7 option next year.
5. Both Sorokin and Varly have had off years. I listened to comments made about
Sorokin yesterday. Yes, at times he has not made the big save as often in the
past however, he has been left high and dry a lot more this year than in years
past as well. Yesterday's game would have been uglier if it were not for him.

This team is finally at the crossroads and how they finish should not matter anymore. Some major changes need to happen if this team wants to contend next year and for years to come.
- Nfdbulldawg

This team will not be contending next year. Between contracts on the books, mediocre at best players locked up for long term, very little assets or prospects to develop and or trade. We are now in the Lou purgatory period. This will last as long as ownership allows him to be GM which I assume is as long as he wants.

This team will not be contending next year. Between contracts on the books, mediocre at best players locked up for long term, very little assets or prospects to develop and or trade. We are now in the Lou purgatory period. This will last as long as ownership allows him to be GM which I assume is as long as he wants.
- Cptmjl

Ownership has to decide what kind of team they want. Do they want to struggle to make the Wildcard or be a legit contender. Most fans are not going to be happy with the current team for much longer. New building will not be enough.

Ownership has to decide what kind of team they want. Do they want to struggle to make the Wildcard or be a legit contender. Most fans are not going to be happy with the current team for much longer. New building will not be enough.
- ses111

The front page of Newsday today is about fewer fans going to UBS and the owners saying that winning will reverse that trend. I don't think ownership is interested in taking the time to retool in the way some fans are thinking: selling off roster pieces, stockpiling picks and prospects, and then developing some of those and trading others. They probably look at that and see two or so dead seasons and more attendance issues before the team looks better for the long term.

I'd imagine they're more receptive to doing whatever it takes to get this roster to the dance each and every season, and let the future versions of themselves worry about how that impacts the team in the future. I know we've said it before, but I still think we just have to hope this team squeaks in each year. It's a mediocre team, and we have to hope it manages to eek out an extra point or two than all the other mediocre teams.

The front page of Newsday today is about fewer fans going to UBS and the owners saying that winning will reverse that trend. I don't think ownership is interested in taking the time to retool in the way some fans are thinking: selling off roster pieces, stockpiling picks and prospects, and then developing some of those and trading others. They probably look at that and see two or so dead seasons and more attendance issues before the team looks better for the long term.

I'd imagine they're more receptive to doing whatever it takes to get this roster to the dance each and every season, and let the future versions of themselves worry about how that impacts the team in the future. I know we've said it before, but I still think we just have to hope this team squeaks in each year. It's a mediocre team, and we have to hope it manages to eek out an extra point or two than all the other mediocre teams.
- UIF

I think it's worth taking some time like the Rangers did to rebuild the right way. I know it's the Rangers, but it did not take them years to be competitive again. The Islanders way is simply not working. Maybe fans will support a young team with exciting young players. We are also not talking about moving Barzal, Bo, Sorokin, and Dobson. Nelson, Palms, and JGP would need to go.

The front page of Newsday today is about fewer fans going to UBS and the owners saying that winning will reverse that trend. I don't think ownership is interested in taking the time to retool in the way some fans are thinking: selling off roster pieces, stockpiling picks and prospects, and then developing some of those and trading others. They probably look at that and see two or so dead seasons and more attendance issues before the team looks better for the long term.

I'd imagine they're more receptive to doing whatever it takes to get this roster to the dance each and every season, and let the future versions of themselves worry about how that impacts the team in the future. I know we've said it before, but I still think we just have to hope this team squeaks in each year. It's a mediocre team, and we have to hope it manages to eek out an extra point or two than all the other mediocre teams.
- UIF

Yep. Sounds awesome. We shall all embrace the idea of being the Minnesota Wild for perpetuity!

Well this was the polar opposite of what they needed going into the stretch to finish out March. They lost to a good, but beatable, LA team, Buffalo, and got only one point against a bad Ottawa team. Now they've dropped the first game of a gauntlet they have to run through the end of the month.

Yep. Sounds awesome. We shall all embrace the idea of being the Minnesota Wild for perpetuity!
- Cptmjl

Sounds like a winning strategy. Islanders are too good for any type of rebuild.

I think it's worth taking some time like the Rangers did to rebuild the right way. I know it's the Rangers, but it did not take them years to be competitive again. The Islanders way is simply not working. Maybe fans will support a young team with exciting young players. We are also not talking about moving Barzal, Bo, Sorokin, and Dobson. Nelson, Palms, and JGP would need to go.
- ses111

That's two of the team's three leading goal scorers on a team that doesn't exactly score a ton to begin with, and no one in the system knocking on the door to replace any of it. There are very few assets to trade for a 30+ goal scorer, and the team typically struggles to attract FAs. So, it's quite an uphill battle to say there wouldn't be any short-term pain trading those players.

Also, the Rangers did take years to be competitive again. They missed the playoffs three out of the four years from 2018 to 2021, and that fourth year was the COVID bubble year when most teams got in and they lost in the qualifying round.

I'm not saying I don't agree with you on what the team should do, I'm just saying ownership looking at attendance at a new building probably isn't going to jump right on board with, "Let's miss the playoffs for two or three years to try and build for the future." Not while they think there's any chance of a different option.

That's two of the team's three leading goal scorers on a team that doesn't exactly score a ton to begin with, and no one in the system knocking on the door to replace any of it. There are very few assets to trade for a 30+ goal scorer, and the team typically struggles to attract FAs. So, it's quite an uphill battle to say there wouldn't be any short-term pain trading those players.

Also, the Rangers did take years to be competitive again. They missed the playoffs three out of the four years from 2018 to 2021, and that fourth year was the COVID bubble year when most teams got in and they lost in the qualifying round.

I'm not saying I don't agree with you on what the team should do, I'm just saying ownership looking at attendance at a new building probably isn't going to jump right on board with, "Let's miss the playoffs for two or three years to try and build for the future." Not while they think there's any chance of a different option.
- UIF

Well I think that's what most are saying where the problem is. This team is not a contender and with no young talent in the system to step in and give them some life, things are only going to get worse going forward.

You're right that ownership almost certainly doesn't want to have to rebuild and risk poor attendance, but the reality is that they're either going to rebuild/retool now or have a full tear-down in the next 2 or so years. They're going to either delay the inevitable and make the down period where the team and attendance stink last longer, or they can try and step back for 2-4 years now and salvage something with some of the young core like Dobson/Barzal/Sorokin. Worst case, they just expedite a full rebuild and rip the bandaid off sooner than later.

That's two of the team's three leading goal scorers on a team that doesn't exactly score a ton to begin with, and no one in the system knocking on the door to replace any of it. There are very few assets to trade for a 30+ goal scorer, and the team typically struggles to attract FAs. So, it's quite an uphill battle to say there wouldn't be any short-term pain trading those players.

Also, the Rangers did take years to be competitive again. They missed the playoffs three out of the four years from 2018 to 2021, and that fourth year was the COVID bubble year when most teams got in and they lost in the qualifying round.

I'm not saying I don't agree with you on what the team should do, I'm just saying ownership looking at attendance at a new building probably isn't going to jump right on board with, "Let's miss the playoffs for two or three years to try and build for the future." Not while they think there's any chance of a different option.
- UIF

No pain no gain. The odds of the Islanders doing anything significant with guys like Nelson and Palms are slim at this point. It's been a miracle Palms has remained healthy this year. I think the time is now to move these players. Maybe they get lucky and find a gem in UFA or Maggio or Dufour show something? Islanders are in a tough spot and the more they delay and try to patch things, the worse they will be in the long run.

No pain no gain. The odds of the Islanders doing anything significant with guys like Nelson and Palms are slim at this point. It's been a miracle Palms has remained healthy this year. I think the time is now to move these players. Maybe they get lucky and find a gem in UFA or Maggio or Dufour show something? Islanders are in a tough spot and the more they delay and try to patch things, the worse they will be in the long run.
- ses111

Have to even wonder about Lou choice in coach Roy has not gotten these guys to play with any kind of heart

Have to even wonder about Lou choice in coach Roy has not gotten these guys to play with any kind of heart
- roadworker

This is beyond Roy. It would be beyond Al Arbour or Scotty Bowman. This is a tired and stale roster.

Have to even wonder about Lou choice in coach Roy has not gotten these guys to play with any kind of heart
- roadworker

I have no issue with Roy. Lambert was a bad coach and was deservedly fired, but you can only do so much with the roster you have.

Dale Earnhardt wouldn't win the Daytona 500 in a Ford Focus. That's mostly because he's dead, but you get the point

I have no issue with Roy. Lambert was a bad coach and was deservedly fired, but you can only do so much with the roster you have. Dale Earnhardt wouldn't win the Daytona 500 in a Ford Focus. That's mostly because he's dead, but you get the point
- eichiefs9

So, you are saying the roster is important and you need speed and skill?

Well I think that's what most are saying where the problem is. This team is not a contender and with no young talent in the system to step in and give them some life, things are only going to get worse going forward.

You're right that ownership almost certainly doesn't want to have to rebuild and risk poor attendance, but the reality is that they're either going to rebuild/retool now or have a full tear-down in the next 2 or so years. They're going to either delay the inevitable and make the down period where the team and attendance stink last longer, or they can try and step back for 2-4 years now and salvage something with some of the young core like Dobson/Barzal/Sorokin. Worst case, they just expedite a full rebuild and rip the bandaid off sooner than later.
- eichiefs9

I mean, yeah, I agree with you. But I don't know if Lou is telling them that the only options are rebuild/retool now or have a full tear-down in a couple of years. I'd guess his argument might be...at least judging by the moves he's made this season and last...that the right tweak or move to this current roster can still get them just over the finish line, and then if they can only make the dance, anything's possible (and he has recent history to point to). For all their faults and weaknesses, they're still right in the mix because the other bubble teams are just as flawed.

And I think having a very experienced and successful hockey mind making the argument that ownership probably already wants to hear (there's an immediate solution rather than a longer-term one) might be more persuasive than whoever may be saying it's time to take a step back and build for a couple of years from now...if anyone's even making that argument to them.

Or, who knows, maybe if they miss the playoffs this year, Lou changes course and retools. No one ever really knows what the guy is actually going to do, at the end of the day.

I mean, yeah, I agree with you. But I don't know if Lou is telling them that the only options are rebuild/retool now or have a full tear-down in a couple of years. I'd guess his argument might be...at least judging by the moves he's made this season and last...that the right tweak or move to this current roster can still get them just over the finish line, and then if they can only make the dance, anything's possible (and he has recent history to point to). For all their faults and weaknesses, they're still right in the mix because the other bubble teams are just as flawed.

And I think having a very experienced and successful hockey mind making the argument that ownership probably already wants to hear (there's an immediate solution rather than a longer-term one) might be more persuasive than whoever may be saying it's time to take a step back and build for a couple of years from now...if anyone's even making that argument to them.

Or, who knows, maybe if they miss the playoffs this year, Lou changes course and retools. No one ever really knows what the guy is actually going to do, at the end of the day.
- UIF

In the mix for what though, making the playoffs or winning a Cup? The two ECF trips happened under very unique situations. Defense was in much better shape and Nelson, Palms, and Lee were younger and healthier. This team has not been able to go on a run during a full NHL season.

I mean, yeah, I agree with you. But I don't know if Lou is telling them that the only options are rebuild/retool now or have a full tear-down in a couple of years. I'd guess his argument might be...at least judging by the moves he's made this season and last...that the right tweak or move to this current roster can still get them just over the finish line, and then if they can only make the dance, anything's possible (and he has recent history to point to). For all their faults and weaknesses, they're still right in the mix because the other bubble teams are just as flawed.

And I think having a very experienced and successful hockey mind making the argument that ownership probably already wants to hear (there's an immediate solution rather than a longer-term one) might be more persuasive than whoever may be saying it's time to take a step back and build for a couple of years from now...if anyone's even making that argument to them.

Or, who knows, maybe if they miss the playoffs this year, Lou changes course and retools. No one ever really knows what the guy is actually going to do, at the end of the day.
- UIF

Yeah I totally get the "reality" portion of it and I'm think you're correct that Lou is telling ownership that they can still shock the world and make a run. And maybe they can. But 6 wins in a row in March, a few of them against bottom feeders, isn't enough for me to have a large amount of confidence that they can even finish out the season consistently strong, let alone surprise everyone in the playoffs. I mean at this point they'll be lucky to limp into the 2nd wildcard spot and then they will have to deal with Florida in the first round.

Lou's mentality and ownership's demand for asses in seats will likely be the reason they continue to trudge on in the face of all the data that shows that they're a pretty average team, full agreement there. Anything can happen in the playoffs for sure, but I'm just not sure that should be the organizational mantra.

Yeah I totally get the "reality" portion of it and I'm think you're correct that Lou is telling ownership that they can still shock the world and make a run. And maybe they can. But 6 wins in a row in March, a few of them against bottom feeders, isn't enough for me to have a large amount of confidence that they can even finish out the season consistently strong, let alone surprise everyone in the playoffs. I mean at this point they'll be lucky to limp into the 2nd wildcard spot and then they will have to deal with Florida in the first round.

Lou's mentality and ownership's demand for asses in seats will likely be the reason they continue to trudge on in the face of all the data that shows that they're a pretty average team, full agreement there. Anything can happen in the playoffs for sure, but I'm just not sure that should be the organizational mantra.
- eichiefs9

Oh it already is. 😆

I have no issue with Roy. Lambert was a bad coach and was deservedly fired, but you can only do so much with the roster you have.

Dale Earnhardt wouldn't win the Daytona 500 in a Ford Focus. That's mostly because he's dead, but you get the point
- eichiefs9

Hahaha can you name three current nascar drivers!? Or one for that matter? I can’t 😂😂

Hahaha can you name three current nascar drivers!? Or one for that matter? I can’t 😂😂
- streaks

Nope.

In 37+ years of life I have probably watched a collective 11 minutes of NASCAR, it's the absolute dumbest thing in the world.

Nope.

In 37+ years of life I have probably watched a collective 11 minutes of NASCAR, it's the absolute dumbest thing in the world.
- eichiefs9

You have me beat by 11 minutes.

Nope.

In 37+ years of life I have probably watched a collective 11 minutes of NASCAR, it's the absolute dumbest thing in the world.
- eichiefs9

I think you watched more than I have. Never got NASCAR. No offense to NASCAR fans.