Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Lose 6-5 OT Game to Rangers

Thanks Bill for your candidness about last night’s game and the frustration a lot us feel about OT lines. One correction…I think you meant to say Sean Walker was traded and not Seeler.

Thanks Bill for your candidness about last night’s game and the frustration a lot us feel about OT lines. One correction…I think you meant to say Sean Walker was traded and not Seeler.
- Sublime55

Fixed. Thanks.

Start OT with Couturier and either Konency or Tippett as the forwards. Win the draw, get Couturier off and Frost on. Lose the draw? Well, you take your chances on a defensive stop.

Where have I heard this idea before ..

You are absolutely right Bill about the post game interviews. No other coach in the league sends their assistants out after a loss. I guarantee you if the Flyers had won last night Torts would be out there. It's hard for me to fathom a coach that preaches to "just play, don't let mistakes or bad plays derail you" can't come out to a post-game presser because he doesn't want to risk blowing up and walking out. The guy in 65 years old, grow up already! Handle it. Be an example to the the team. Torts is leaking credibility by the day here, it's just not a good look.

Also, you are absolutely right about using Couts. Not just in OT where its only common sense to put your best faceoff guy out there to start OT, but also late in games. On the Rangers 5th goal, Frost was taking the defensive zone draw, lost it and the Rangers take the lead, and TK gets hurt. I am not putting down Frost, but he is not a good faceoff guy and you need to win defensive zone draws, especially late in tie games. Again, it's just common sense.

A lot to dissect here:

The PK: this is easy, combine inconsistent goaltending with having only 2 legit NHL Dmen available and your pk is going to suffer

Not using Couts on key D zone faceoffs is just Torts being petulant. He needs to get over himself.

OT: Honestly, I have to wonder if Torts even cares about OT after seeing the lineups he’s been throwing out there and his ludicrous 2D fiasco from last season. You want to win tbe ooening faceoff, fine, that makes sense as OT is all about puck possession. So your opening group should be Couts, TK, Sanheim followed by Frost, Tippett, York. Noah offense whatsoever Cates should be stapled to the bench during OT.

Finally, not addressing the media postgame is simply Torts not doing his job. You get the big bucks John, and along with that comes the responsibility of dealing with the media. Since you are all about accountability, try having some of your own.

I was, yet again, PO'd after watching what was a very entertaining, and sometimes frustrating, game. Why does Torts have to put those guys on the ice to start OT? WHY?????? Especially since it was obvious RP was playing with one hand. I just don't get it.

Bill, your bias towards the coach is getting worse. Even when Torts worked in the media he wasn't media friendly. He should be judged on what he getting achieved on the ice, not post game interviews. And in that regard Torts deserves an A+.

Its an 82 games schedule and guys get tired, injured and worn down. If a Sixer sat out, no one cares because its time management. Hockey players are tougher than basketball players and don't want to sit out, but sometimes they need someone to make the correct decision for them, for the best interest in the team.

Please don't go Toronto media on us.

I do agree with you on the overtime....3 in a row and we barely touched the puck. The most important instance in OT is the faceoff.

ty

A lot to dissect here:

The PK: this is easy, combine inconsistent goaltending with having only 2 legit NHL Dmen available and your pk is going to suffer

Not using Couts on key D zone faceoffs is just Torts being petulant. He needs to get over himself.

OT: Honestly, I have to wonder if Torts even cares about OT after seeing the lineups he’s been throwing out there and his ludicrous 2D fiasco from last season. You want to win tbe ooening faceoff, fine, that makes sense as OT is all about puck possession. So your opening group should be Couts, TK, Sanheim followed by Frost, Tippett, York. Noah offense whatsoever Cates should be stapled to the bench during OT.

Finally, not addressing the media postgame is simply Torts not doing his job. You get the big bucks John, and along with that comes the responsibility of dealing with the media. Since you are all about accountability, try having some of your own.
- BiggE

at some point you attract what you are, Torts EGO is his issue. He wants to be right, so can't use Coots to take faceoff. He wants to be right, so you have to use his pet projects Ryan P and Cates. He wants to be right, so he does not have to do the presser. Again, I like a lot of what he does, but the EGO is to much.

I am not sure how the Torts cult can even spin his tactics in OT.

At this point juts give Shaw the job since he is the one addressing the media most nights.

Where have I heard this idea before ..

You are absolutely right Bill about the post game interviews. No other coach in the league sends their assistants out after a loss. I guarantee you if the Flyers had won last night Torts would be out there. It's hard for me to fathom a coach that preaches to "just play, don't let mistakes or bad plays derail you" can't come out to a post-game presser because he doesn't want to risk blowing up and walking out. The guy in 65 years old, grow up already! Handle it. Be an example to the the team. Torts is leaking credibility by the day here, it's just not a good look.

Also, you are absolutely right about using Couts. Not just in OT where its only common sense to put your best faceoff guy out there to start OT, but also late in games. On the Rangers 5th goal, Frost was taking the defensive zone draw, lost it and the Rangers take the lead, and TK gets hurt. I am not putting down Frost, but he is not a good faceoff guy and you need to win defensive zone draws, especially late in tie games. Again, it's just common sense.
- jd250

Oh, how your narrative is changing. I thought Couts was cooked?!? Your boy Torts is giving points away when they need every single point they can get.

Bill, your bias towards the coach is getting worse. Even when Torts worked in the media he wasn't media friendly. He should be judged on what he getting achieved on the ice, not post game interviews. And in that regard Torts deserves an A+.

Its an 82 games schedule and guys get tired, injured and worn down. If a Sixer sat out, no one cares because its time management. Hockey players are tougher than basketball players and don't want to sit out, but sometimes they need someone to make the correct decision for them, for the best interest in the team.

Please don't go Toronto media on us.

I do agree with you on the overtime....3 in a row and we barely touched the puck. The most important instance in OT is the faceoff.
- kennygarcon

I have defended Torts all year and I appreciate what he has brought to the Flyers. But I'm sorry, Torts does not deserve an A+. He loses marks with his approach last year and this year to OT, he loses marks for benching Couts and not utilizing him properly, especially late in games, and he loses marks with how he has handled his pre and post game interviews down the stretch here. As a result, he gets a B from me.

Where have I heard this idea before ..

You are absolutely right Bill about the post game interviews. No other coach in the league sends their assistants out after a loss. I guarantee you if the Flyers had won last night Torts would be out there. It's hard for me to fathom a coach that preaches to "just play, don't let mistakes or bad plays derail you" can't come out to a post-game presser because he doesn't want to risk blowing up and walking out. The guy in 65 years old, grow up already! Handle it. Be an example to the the team. Torts is leaking credibility by the day here, it's just not a good look.

Also, you are absolutely right about using Couts. Not just in OT where its only common sense to put your best faceoff guy out there to start OT, but also late in games. On the Rangers 5th goal, Frost was taking the defensive zone draw, lost it and the Rangers take the lead, and TK gets hurt. I am not putting down Frost, but he is not a good faceoff guy and you need to win defensive zone draws, especially late in tie games. Again, it's just common sense.
- jd250

From literally everyone but Jack Adams award winner guy.

Bill, your bias towards the coach is getting worse. Even when Torts worked in the media he wasn't media friendly. He should be judged on what he getting achieved on the ice, not post game interviews. And in that regard Torts deserves an A+.

Its an 82 games schedule and guys get tired, injured and worn down. If a Sixer sat out, no one cares because its time management. Hockey players are tougher than basketball players and don't want to sit out, but sometimes they need someone to make the correct decision for them, for the best interest in the team.

Please don't go Toronto media on us.

I do agree with you on the overtime....3 in a row and we barely touched the puck. The most important instance in OT is the faceoff.
- kennygarcon

this is hysterical

From literally everyone but Jack Adams award winner guy.
- MBFlyerfan

Oh, how your narrative is changing. I thought Couts was cooked?!? Your boy Torts is giving points away when they need every single point they can get.
- Flyfly

Yes, Couts did look cooked, and now it's clear based on what Briere said that he was fighting up to 5 different injuries. I don't think Couts should play 20+ minutes a game, but he can and should be utilized much better than he is being used now.

And my narrative as you state it, will change as the inputs change. When coaches and/or players deserve criticism, I state it. When they deserve praise, I state it. It's just plain dumb to form a narrative and then not change it if and when the inputs to that initial narrative have changed. Torts is unraveling down the stretch here, and thus he deserves criticism.

Has the theory that Torts is pissed Coots was named captain been put to bed or is this still out there? I'm not sure of the exact stats but Coot's play started to tail off but he was still named captain. Just prior and since he was named captain he has been in a scoring drought, his +/- has been awful, and his minutes decreased. Can it be true that a veteran NHL head coach is so childish that he staples the new captain to the bench and eventually healthy scratches him? Coots is your best defensive forward and faceoff guy, but you don't deploy him in those important situations? Is this a dereliction of duty?

Bill, your bias towards the coach is getting worse. Even when Torts worked in the media he wasn't media friendly. He should be judged on what he getting achieved on the ice, not post game interviews. And in that regard Torts deserves an A+.

Its an 82 games schedule and guys get tired, injured and worn down. If a Sixer sat out, no one cares because its time management. Hockey players are tougher than basketball players and don't want to sit out, but sometimes they need someone to make the correct decision for them, for the best interest in the team.

Please don't go Toronto media on us.

I do agree with you on the overtime....3 in a row and we barely touched the puck. The most important instance in OT is the faceoff.
- kennygarcon

1) There is no "bias" whatsoever. I credit Tortorella where I think he deserves credit -- structure, conditioning, preparation, pushing to get the room unified --- and question what I think deserves to be questioned. If anything, I'd say it's pretty even-handed.

2) "He should be judged on what he getting achieved on the ice, not post game interviews." I flat out WROTE that. And have written that before.

3) "In that regard Torts deserves an A+."

Yeah, I'm not taking it THAT far. There are plenty of times where I disagree with things from a hockey standpoint. He's a competent vet coach, and reads well in-game on who does or doesn't have it going on a given night in addition to good prep work. He seems to communicate well and have a good rapport with his assistant coaches. Longtime assistant Brad Shaw, in particular.

Does Tortorella have blinders about some things? Yes. Does he sometimes put too much faith/patience in certain types of players but not in others? Yes, in my estimation.

4) Guess what.... like it not... when a coach constantly harps on accountability and professionalism, he needs to consistently model those traits himself. (BTW, if you think figures in the organization do not notice that, too, you're wrong).

funny thing, the Torts debate will come center attention now.

By all accounts the Flyers have the favorable schedule comparing to Wings and to lesser extent Caps, but they also play the Caps. Take care of business and you are in. Torts keeps leaking points, due to his decisions it will take some shine off this season. Yes, they overachieved to date but they had the control down the stretch and expectations went up. Get in, the post mortem on the season will be all sunshine and rainbows, blow it, all decisions come under scrutiny, from the Frost 8 games in the beginning, to the Coots, to the OT, to the childish antics in not doing his pressers.

Don't get me wrong, all coaches deserve to make mistakes, Torts has them in a good position, but all coaches are responsible for their body of work. I hope it ends on a good note, I hope they grown from here and

LETS GO FLYERS

PS- Pitt wins the lottery, I will boycott the NHL

That phantom call on Foerster was a beauty by our elite NHL officiating. Flyers should've won that game.

1) There is no "bias" whatsoever. I credit Tortorella where I think he deserves credit -- structure, conditioning, preparation, pushing to get the room unified --- and question what I think deserves to be questioned. If anything, I'd say it's pretty even-handed.

2) "He should be judged on what he getting achieved on the ice, not post game interviews." I flat out WROTE that. And have written that before.

3) "In that regard Torts deserves an A+."

Yeah, I'm not taking it THAT far. There are plenty of times where I disagree with things from a hockey standpoint. He's a competent vet coach, and reads well in-game on who does or doesn't have it going on a given night in addition to good prep work. He seems to communicate well and have a good rapport with his assistant coaches. Longtime assistant Brad Shaw, in particular.

Does Tortorella have blinders about some things? Yes. Does he sometimes put too much faith/patience in certain types of players but not in others? Yes, in my estimation.

3) Guess what.... like it not... when a coach constantly harps on accountability and professionalism, he needs to consistently model those traits himself. (BTW, if you think figures in the organization do not notice that, too, you're wrong).
- bmeltzer

Well said

Yes, Couts did look cooked, and now it's clear based on what Briere said that he was fighting up to 5 different injuries. I don't think Couts should play 20+ minutes a game, but he can and should be utilized much better than he is being used now.

And my narrative as you state it, will change as the inputs change. When coaches and/or players deserve criticism, I state it. When they deserve praise, I state it. It's just plain dumb to form a narrative and then not change it if and when the inputs to that initial narrative have changed. Torts is unraveling down the stretch here, and thus he deserves criticism.
- jd250

All it will take is Torts speaking to the media and one bad game from Couts and you will be right back where you started. Most on here have been saying this for a long time and you constantly say we are wrong. Any educated fan knew all of this but you are coming around (for now anyway).

That phantom call on Foerster was a beauty by our elite NHL officiating. Flyers should've won that game.
- Dave21Brown

did you watch slow mo? did he actually not hit him with the stick?

1) There is no "bias" whatsoever. I credit Tortorella where I think he deserves credit -- structure, conditioning, preparation, pushing to get the room unified --- and question what I think deserves to be questioned. If anything, I'd say it's pretty even-handed.

2) "He should be judged on what he getting achieved on the ice, not post game interviews." I flat out WROTE that. And have written that before.

3) "In that regard Torts deserves an A+."

Yeah, I'm not taking it THAT far. There are plenty of times where I disagree with things from a hockey standpoint. He's a competent vet coach, and reads well in-game on who does or doesn't have it going on a given night in addition to good prep work. He seems to communicate well and have a good rapport with his assistant coaches. Longtime assistant Brad Shaw, in particular.

Does Tortorella have blinders about some things? Yes. Does he sometimes put too much faith/patience in certain types of players but not in others? Yes, in my estimation.

4) Guess what.... like it not... when a coach constantly harps on accountability and professionalism, he needs to consistently model those traits himself. (BTW, if you think figures in the organization do not notice that, too, you're wrong).
- bmeltzer

Very well stated Bill!

All it will take is Torts speaking to the media and one bad game from Couts and you will be right back where you started. Most on here have been saying this for a long time and you constantly say we are wrong. Any educated fan knew all of this but you are coming around (for now anyway).
- Flyfly

it is ok to take new input and adjust your opinion, but initially you need to consider all that might be going on, to form that opinion, not just defend the company line