The last pregame post of this wacky season.
- SMS4016

*

Let's Go Flyers! Win just one for the Zipper:



Whether they win or lose (and go home), I don't know where I'll be emotionally after tonight's game, but I won't smell too good, that's for sure.

Bill Meltzer: Flyers ECSF Gameday: Game 5 vs. NYI (9/1/20)
- bmeltzer

I think we’re good enough to win tonight. I just don’t think we’ll put in enough effort for a full 60 minutes to win the series.

Thank you for this bill. Thank you.

Didn’t quote as intended. The info on ghost and a real assessment of his play.

I think we’re good enough to win tonight. I just don’t think we’ll put in enough effort for a full 60 minutes to win the series.
- SuperSchennBros

this is pretty much how I feel. all i'm hoping is that they don't completely lay down and die. at this point, I don't really expect them to win the series. but it isn't over until it's over.

This is a must win game IMHO

Going into the series people were upset that some fans were saying that Giroux hadn’t produced in the playoffs since 2012. Now they stopped defending him.

And the reason people want ghost in so badly is that he is one of the few Flyers who willingly shoots the puck.

The 2012 playoffs killed the Flyers players. The penguins series was full of behind the back, no look touch passes that the fans loved and they’ve been trying to recreate ever since. The Devils series showed other teams how afraid the Flyers become when you forecheck 3 players. That’s why less talented teams always give the Flyers fits.

We have to carry the puck out of the zone. And if you say we don’t have enough fast talented players to do that then I say quit overcooking Frost and sitting ghost while pylons like Braun and Thompson get their crap pushed in.

If the other team is trying to push you into a shell, going into a shell isn’t the best strategy to beat them.

My kingdom for a coach who values talent over grit.
- Shrike

It's not binary. Otherwise TML and Oilers would alternate winning championships. Islanders are not overloaded on talent- they just well coached, disciplined, hard working (gritty, if you will), and quick team
In my opinion Flyers lack of speed is not as damaging as their lack of quickness. They lack quick moves, quick decisions, quick shifts in skating directions. Flyers overvalue skating around with the puck where opponents play touch passing. Flyers are waiting for the perfect opportunity, where the Islanders are just quick on being opportunistic.
Flyers allow "perfect" be the enemy of "good" mistrusting their quick opportunities. I am not sure where is the cause of this lack of quickness, but, it should be fixed rather quickly.

That's the spirit!
- Scoob

Year after year after year. Seen this movie many times. 7-1 isles tonight. Hart pulled 1st period ( no fault of his as team packs it in and leaves him out to dry)

*
- Bendecko

And they lost that game

Spot on Scoob! Imo, yes we played terrible game 3 but the way Hart looked it seemed he could have stole it 1-0. But those two horrific mistakes lead to 2 soft goals. Same with last game, the first two goals are 100% avoidable with a better clear or just not turning it off. I don’t discredit the Isles, they are a good team. But we certainly haven’t played our best and have shot Ourselves in the foot more often than not

To me it doesn't feel like the Islanders own them, but rather that they are hurting themselves. Some of the issues should be fixable on the fly - reducing turnovers, improve the power play - which makes it frustrating that they haven't been fixed. I have confidence that they can win tonight.
- Scoob

Maybe the desperation allows them to fix the PP, but there's been a poor track record so far this series.

It's not binary. Otherwise TML and Oilers would alternate winning championships. Islanders are not overloaded on talent- they just well coached, disciplined, hard working (gritty, if you will), and quick team
In my opinion Flyers lack of speed is not as damaging as their lack of quickness. They lack quick moves, quick decisions, quick shifts in skating directions. Flyers overvalue skating around with the puck where opponents play touch passing. Flyers are waiting for the perfect opportunity, where the Islanders are just quick on being opportunistic.
Flyers allow "perfect" be the enemy of "good" mistrusting their quick opportunities. I am not sure where is the cause of this lack of quickness, but, it should be fixed rather quickly.
- missingmike

Perfect being the enemy of good is, and has been, the biggest detriment to success for the Flyers. They also search for “perfect” in a fearful panic.

It's not binary. Otherwise TML and Oilers would alternate winning championships. Islanders are not overloaded on talent- they just well coached, disciplined, hard working (gritty, if you will), and quick team
In my opinion Flyers lack of speed is not as damaging as their lack of quickness. They lack quick moves, quick decisions, quick shifts in skating directions. Flyers overvalue skating around with the puck where opponents play touch passing. Flyers are waiting for the perfect opportunity, where the Islanders are just quick on being opportunistic.
Flyers allow "perfect" be the enemy of "good" mistrusting their quick opportunities. I am not sure where is the cause of this lack of quickness, but, it should be fixed rather quickly.
- missingmike

The lack of 'quick' is determinative to me too.
When they are on their game, the passes are 'there' and the recovery of pucks is 'done'. I'm not able to distinguish this as a lack of effort but perhaps confidence?
They do not look assured. The only three players who seem to be able to retain the puck on a stick are Hayes, Coots and Vorachek. (That's in order of displayed ability.) Support is weak for them.
In turn, the NYIs seem to be more accurate, not only in passing, but when shooting. THeir ability to hound our puck carriers is very good and the persistence is outstanding. A quick move is required to avoid their pesky entrapments. As stated, quick is missing from our game.
We are not playing well enough to punch the ticket.
I am distraught.

Going into the series people were upset that some fans were saying that Giroux hadn’t produced in the playoffs since 2012. Now they stopped defending him.

And the reason people want ghost in so badly is that he is one of the few Flyers who willingly shoots the puck.

The 2012 playoffs killed the Flyers players. The penguins series was full of behind the back, no look touch passes that the fans loved and they’ve been trying to recreate ever since. The Devils series showed other teams how afraid the Flyers become when you forecheck 3 players. That’s why less talented teams always give the Flyers fits.

We have to carry the puck out of the zone. And if you say we don’t have enough fast talented players to do that then I say quit overcooking Frost and sitting ghost while pylons like Braun and Thompson get their crap pushed in.

If the other team is trying to push you into a shell, going into a shell isn’t the best strategy to beat them.

My kingdom for a coach who values talent over grit.
- Shrike

Frost is not ready for the NHL playoffs.

Bill Meltzer: Flyers ECSF Gameday: Game 5 vs. NYI (9/1/20)
- bmeltzer

There are losses and there are losses.

Some losses clearly show the losing team what needs to be done (CBJ has a solid defense, needs scoring forwards; BOS has a terrific first line but aging core +needs scoring depth). Some losses raise the existential question whether the team has been overestimated and the current strategy is a valid contending one (Leafs).

I think the nature of the Flyers performance must raise considerable questions about the latter. If Hexy/Hakstol had stayed, some of our prospects probably get more grooming in minors. Not sure if we hire Nisky/Hayes/Braun. We are probably 1-2 years away from going into playoff overdrive in Hexy's plan. By then, several more solid (probably top 15) prospects, and Voracek/Giroux almost done and very tradeable as rentals (their salaries are somewhat front loaded) and lots of salary cap space as a result.

The sharp change in the ship's direction was brought about by the belief that we are closer to contention than believed. That the forward core + prospects + depths will take us to contending status. We believed it in the first half of 2020. Remember all those statements that this is the best Flyers team in 25 years? Yet the playoff performance is very familiarly dismal.

All the change in direction may have ensured though is a few more years of mediocrity: good enough to get into playoffs, and not good enough to go deep.

Outside of Vegas (which has too short a history and was constituted in a strange way), every single team going deep is riding its offensive stars. Isles have Barzal. TB is getting star performances from Hedman, Kucherov, Point. Avs have Mackinnon+. In Dallas, we have Benn, Seguin, Heiskanen, Pavelski. The BOS first line always looked good.

We have no stars; we have regular season heroes. We have neither sucked badly enough to get high draft picks (Hedman, Seguin, Barzal, Mackinnon), nor have we hit deep: Benn, Kucherov, Marchand and many others.

The current strategy may continue that, and there is the possibility Holmgren may have screwed the team one more time.

What offense has Ghost produced, with any sort of consistency, the last two years? Not nearly enough of it to make up for the weaknesses in his game. There are flashes of it -- a play here, a game there -- but not reliably so.

I like Ghost, both as an elusive player when he's on his game and a person. But he can't live forever off his 2015-16 and 2017-18 campaigns when three of his last four seasons have fallen short of expectations.

Ghost finished the Montreal series with a strong performance in Game 6. But he really struggled in Game 1 of this series: four giveaways (three on the a single shift), six shot attempts blocked, one that missed the net, one harmless one on net. That's not going to keep him in the lineup as a player whose primary values are his shot, his lateral skating (north-south he is an average skater), and his NZ ability.

A hard truth: Ghost was not one of the primary players who brought the team to the dance this year. He didn't build up the credit to be allowed to play through a rough night like Game 1. No, Niskanen and Braun have not been good in the postseason. But both were important parts of what got the team this far in the first place.
- bmeltzer

Thanks for sharing your opinion on this topic. I completely agree. Although at this point, because the offense has been so putrid (which is not Hagg or Braun's fault since they're not counted on for that) I would probably play Ghost tonight.

And they lost that game
- SMS4016

Doesn't matter. It's just a movie. However, you predicted the Flyers are going to lose. That means they're going to win!

How many goals will Giroux, Konecny, and JVR combine for tonight?

Although if they could find a way to win all three tonight that would be cool.
- mickel25

I blame Hextall for their inability to accomplish that.

This is a must win game IMHO
- Streit2ThePoint

the math checks out

Are some of the regulars here still boycotting watching the games?

We played our best game in Game 4 and still lost. We need to get a goal or two quickly and have Hart shut the door. Then focus on Game 6. One at a time.

Hart has to steal this one for us. We are still having too many breakdowns. Elliott tried to keep us in it but without generating any offense, it was just a matter of time.

Let's go boys! No handshake line tonight.

There are losses and there are losses.

Some losses clearly show the losing team what needs to be done (CBJ has a solid defense, needs scoring forwards; BOS has a terrific first line but aging core +needs scoring depth). Some losses raise the existential question whether the team has been overestimated and the current strategy is a valid contending one (Leafs).

I think the nature of the Flyers performance must raise considerable questions about the latter. If Hexy/Hakstol had stayed, some of our prospects probably get more grooming in minors. Not sure if we hire Nisky/Hayes/Braun. We are probably 1-2 years away from going into playoff overdrive in Hexy's plan. By then, several more solid (probably top 15) prospects, and Voracek/Giroux almost done and very tradeable as rentals (their salaries are somewhat front loaded) and lots of salary cap space as a result.

The sharp change in the ship's direction was brought about by the belief that we are closer to contention than believed. That the forward core + prospects + depths will take us to contending status. We believed it in the first half of 2020. Remember all those statements that this is the best Flyers team in 25 years? Yet the playoff performance is very familiarly dismal.

All the change in direction may have ensured though is a few more years of mediocrity: good enough to get into playoffs, and not good enough to go deep.

Outside of Vegas (which has too short a history and was constituted in a strange way), every single team going deep is riding its offensive stars. Isles have Barzal. TB is getting star performances from Hedman, Kucherov, Point. Avs have Mackinnon+. In Dallas, we have Benn, Seguin, Heiskanen, Pavelski. The BOS first line always looked good.

We have no stars; we have regular season heroes. We have neither sucked badly enough to get high draft picks (Hedman, Seguin, Barzal, Mackinnon), nor have we hit deep: Benn, Kucherov, Marchand and many others.

The current strategy may continue that, and there is the possibility Holmgren may have screwed the team one more time.
- PT21

Winning teams are strong down the middle, on defense and in net. We are good down the middle and when Patrick returns we should be really strong.

The core of the defense moving forward is Provorov, Myers and Sanheim. They have all been good at times and bad at others. I think we have seen enough to know they have not reached full potential. The Flyers also have some exciting prospects.

We are set in goal.

The Flyers are a team that is capable of more and just aren't getting it done. That's not due to a lack of talent. I think the Habs and Isles are bad matchups for the Flyers. They play a game that stymies the Flyers. Couple that with the top players not producing offensively and you arrive at the current situation.

Honest question. Would you take the Isles roster over the Flyers right now? I know I would not.

I'm all for playing Frost, but if you do he needs to be in the top six or you might as well not bother. I also think you play Ghost and give him PP1 time, right now there is nothing the Islanders respect...nobody is scared of Provy or Jake shooting. With Ghost at the top they will need to respect his shot, and in theory that will open up space for G on the half wall for some one timer ops. Also not a JVR fan, but the one spot he is good is in front of the net on the PP, so why not try G, Coots, JVR, Jake and Ghost...This gives you a big shot out top, G and Jake on the half walls, JVR for net front presences and Coots in the high slot for some Scott Hartnell style opportunities.

Winning teams are strong down the middle, on defense and in net. We are good down the middle and when Patrick returns we should be really strong.

The core of the defense moving forward is Provorov, Myers and Sanheim. They have all been good at times and bad at others. I think we have seen enough to know they have not reached full potential. The Flyers also have some exciting prospects.

We are set in goal.

The Flyers are a team that is capable of more and just aren't getting it done. That's not due to a lack of talent. I think the Habs and Isles are bad matchups for the Flyers. They play a game that stymies the Flyers. Couple that with the top players not producing offensively and you arrive at the current situation.

Honest question. Would you take the Isles roster over the Flyers right now? I know I would not.
- mickel25

I wouldn't either, but I do really like Barzal. That kid just does whatever he wants every time he's on the ice.