Look at the games/scouting reports on Ellis, he's a top 4 OFFENSIVE defenseman with no size. Unless you're planning to deal Pouliot where does he fit in?
- mventres

Pouliot on the bottom pairing isn't bad idea given his age and inexperience

After seeing what orpik got last year, there's no reason why martin wont get the same if not more....
- joescullz

Agreed, it all depends if he would take a discount. Otherwise, agree...he could get $6/yr easily.

Thats what I'm thinking too, but with this crew you just never know what they're gonna do.
- joescullz

Well, lets blindly hope its Martin taking a discount to end his career here... to.. umm... avoiding selling his house while the market still isn't back up >_>

Pouliot on the bottom pairing isn't bad idea given his age and inexperience
- drummer829

Seriously? Why would you kill his development like that? It's a HORRIBLE idea!

Seriously? Why would you kill his development like that? It's a HORRIBLE idea!
- mventres

Pouliot should not be slotted any lower than no. 4 period. He is top 2 dman imo just a 3/4 on this team because of tang and maatta ahead of him

No on Martin. Just please no.

Now the cap is set, things will start moving.

You're.... you're serious, aren't you?
- BINGO!

Yes that thats the type of player the Pens should target if giving up assets, no that he would go for that.

Now the cap is set, things will start moving.
- sammy87

Here's hoping...

Seriously? Why would you kill his development like that? It's a HORRIBLE idea!
- mventres

How is that killing his development? He'd be playing with Cole or Lovejoy, getting 12+ minutes a night and giving him a chance to get away from other teams top forwards. He also won't stay there and injuries are bound to happen. Starting Pouliot on the bottom pairing to get his feet wet really isn't a bad idea.

I don't think you're allowed to call someone's idea horrible when you think Jackman is a top 4 defenseman

Pouliot should not be slotted any lower than no. 4 period. He is top 2 dman imo just a 3/4 on this team because of tang and maatta ahead of him
- joescullz

Pouliot MIGHT become a top pairing dman with development. He certainly isn't there right now and he wouldn't be on any competitive roster either.

No on Martin. Just please no.
- sammy87

I'd be fine if it were a short term deal, but I doubt he is interested in that.

On another note, I thought Rutherford wanted to go with youth? Why the hell is he looking into bringing Sharp or Martin into the lineup if he wants youth?

How is that killing his development? He'd be playing with Cole or Lovejoy, getting 12+ minutes a night and giving him a chance to get away from other teams top forwards. He also won't stay there and injuries are bound to happen. Starting Pouliot on the bottom pairing to get his feet wet really isn't a bad idea.

I don't think you're allowed to call someone's idea horrible when you think Jackman is a top 4 defenseman
- drummer829

That is horrible...and compounded by bringing in a guy like Ellis who plays a similar style will play mind games with him. How is 12min/game going to allow him to develop? HORRIBLE IDEA. If Pouliot is not going to play top 4 then just put him in the minors where he'll get 20+min/game - which is also a bad idea as he's grown out of that as well.

Jackman fits what the PENS NEED at #4 way more than Ellis does. Other better options exist too (e.g., Beauchemin, Oduya - or Martin IF at a discount). That pairs a younger, more offensive minded guy with somebody who is very capable on D and can cover up a large amount of mistakes he will make while developing. Cole/Lovejoy is not going to give a guy like Pouliot the confidence to stretch himself to become a solid offensive D man.

Yeah, that Perron trade was a terrible trade for the Blues. They saved $2.7 milin cap space, which they used to lock up Pietrangelo, among others. The got a younger, former-1st rounder back, plus Barbashev, who is looking like a damn good player to this point (basicially that's 2 1st rounders) And Perron got traded again, his time for a 4th liner & a 1st round pick in a loaded draft, so his value diminished in EDM. Then, playing with arguably the best player on the planet, he scores a whopping 12 GOALS! Boy, St. Louis got hosed. He was a problem for the coach here, and made too much $$ for too little production. Not a bad trade at all. The Penguins' end of it, though? A 1st & a player for 12 reg season goals & 0 playoff goals?

Yeah, that Perron trade was a terrible trade for the Blues. They saved $2.7 milin cap space, which they used to lock up Pietrangelo, among others. The got a younger, former-1st rounder back, plus Barbashev, who is looking like a damn good player to this point (basicially that's 2 1st rounders) And Perron got traded again, his time for a 4th liner & a 1st round pick in a loaded draft, so his value diminished in EDM. Then, playing with arguably the best player on the planet, he scores a whopping 12 GOALS! Boy, St. Louis got hosed. He was a problem for the coach here, and made too much $$ for too little production. Not a bad trade at all. The Penguins' end of it, though? A 1st & a player for 12 reg season goals & 0 playoff goals?
- usmcaaron

I agree with you on it not being a bad trade for the Blue but way too early to tell on Pens end. Remember, James Neal did even less for Pens when he came here his first year and then exploded for what 40 goals the next year? To early to tell.

That is horrible...and compounded by bringing in a guy like Ellis who plays a similar style will play mind games with him. How is 12min/game going to allow him to develop? HORRIBLE IDEA. If Pouliot is not going to play top 4 then just put him in the minors where he'll get 20+min/game - which is also a bad idea as he's grown out of that as well.

Jackman fits what the PENS NEED at #4 way more than Ellis does. Other better options exist too (e.g., Beauchemin, Oduya - or Martin IF at a discount). That pairs a younger, more offensive minded guy with somebody who is very capable on D and can cover up a large amount of mistakes he will make while developing. Cole/Lovejoy is not going to give a guy like Pouliot the confidence to stretch himself to become a solid offensive D man.
- mventres

You do realize Ellis has better shot suppression and goals against numbers right?

You do realize Ellis has better shot suppression and goals against numbers right?
- jfkst1

His style is the problem. Stats like that are inflated by team system and the person who he played with...bottom line: Ellis is good, but not the right fit. I'd take Oduya at $4-4.5 per over 3-4 years before even considering Ellis as an option.

No?

2009-2010 84 points in 73 games
2010-2011 54 points in 65 games
2011-2012 54 points in 77 games
2012-2013 44 points in 44 games
2013-2014 42 points in 65 games
2014-2015 19 points in 57 games

Totals 297 points in 381 games, or .780 points per game, an average of 64 over a full season.

What, other than 2014-2015, indicates that he's a risk? If anything, he looks like a reasonably consistent 50-60 point guy who had one VERY bad year.
- BINGO!

A decline in production each year. He is an underachiever. You can't debate that.

His style is the problem. Stats like that are inflated by team system and the person who he played with...bottom line: Ellis is good, but not the right fit. I'd take Oduya at $4-4.5 per over 3-4 years before even considering Ellis as an option.
- mventres

I doubt Ellis will be an option, but there is no way I want Oduya for that long. I'd rather just play with the young dmen instead of get caught up with too much length on an aging player.

No on Martin. Just please no.
- sammy87

So, now GMs are looking to trade the rights of pending UFAs for picks. Doesn't seem like our's is going to do that with Martin or Ehrhoff. A fourth or fifth round pick would be something I would think would be beneficial for this franchise considering we only have a 2nd and a 7th in a deep draft.

So, now GMs are looking to trade the rights of pending UFAs for picks. Doesn't seem like our's is going to do that with Martin or Ehrhoff. A fourth or fifth round pick would be something I would think would be beneficial for this franchise considering we only have a 2nd and a 7th in a deep draft.
- Oneonta Penguin

I think you can start to talk with UFA's Thursday so trading for rights is dead

I think you can start to talk with UFA's Thursday so trading for rights is dead
- usethe1-2-2

Yep. No idea why anyone would trade for rights anymore since agents will talk to interested teams before the draft now. There's basically no advantage.

EDIT: Having said this, Rutherford will probably be the only GM to trade for rights.

That is horrible...and compounded by bringing in a guy like Ellis who plays a similar style will play mind games with him. How is 12min/game going to allow him to develop? HORRIBLE IDEA. If Pouliot is not going to play top 4 then just put him in the minors where he'll get 20+min/game - which is also a bad idea as he's grown out of that as well.

Jackman fits what the PENS NEED at #4 way more than Ellis does. Other better options exist too (e.g., Beauchemin, Oduya - or Martin IF at a discount). That pairs a younger, more offensive minded guy with somebody who is very capable on D and can cover up a large amount of mistakes he will make while developing. Cole/Lovejoy is not going to give a guy like Pouliot the confidence to stretch himself to become a solid offensive D man.
- mventres

Those other players aren't an option because they will be cashing in on a weak free agency. Your saying the pens need another scuderi. If you'd rather want Jackman than Ellis then just stop responding now.

Sutter and Kapanen for Skinner
- BINGO!

Absolutely, though I prefer getting Semin and not trading Kapanen. But Skinner is a young, proven goal scorer, those are hard to get.

Yep. No idea why anyone would trade for rights anymore since agents will talk to interested teams before the draft now. There's basically no advantage.

EDIT: Having said this, Rutherford will probably be the only GM to trade for rights.
- jfkst1

Nah, that was Shero and he failed.