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Forums :: Blog World :: Ryan Wilson: Unceremonious departure for a legend on this day in Penguins history
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Ryan Wilson
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Rochester, NY
Joined: 06.13.2013

Wednesday @ 6:07 PM ET
madmike71
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 12.21.2006

Wednesday @ 6:38 PM ET
It's one thing to trade the best player in the world because you can't afford him. It's quite another to trade him for table scraps. That's what I never understood about Patrick's trades during that time. Same with the Kovalev deal.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Washington, DC
Joined: 06.17.2014

Wednesday @ 6:50 PM ET
I’ve never seen all the players Jagr’s been traded for in his career listed. It seems like while he played, “If Jagr’s available, trade for him” would have been good advice. There’s not a single great player on that list.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Mantua, NJ
Joined: 03.09.2010

Wednesday @ 6:55 PM ET
Ryan Wilson: Unceremonious departure for a legend on this day in Penguins history
Unceremonious departure for a legend on this day

- Ryan_Wilson


"All these years later we don't need to harp on the exit or turmoil."
Aussiepenguin
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Sydney
Joined: 08.02.2014

Wednesday @ 7:10 PM ET
Just read the buyout comments from last thread.

So ROR if my understanding is correct, which it may not be, only has to be paid real salary & not any signing bonuses if he's bought out? The cap hit stays pretty much the same give or take, but 'actual' salary is minimal? For teams that have the cap room but are 'cheap' (let's say), that's very attractive to help get them to the floor.

That's if the signing bonuses don't have to be paid. That appears to be very risky on ROR part.
Ol_Boy_Wop
Calgary Flames
Location: Anybody but Brouwer, VA, VA
Joined: 08.24.2011

Wednesday @ 8:14 PM ET
I’ve never seen all the players Jagr’s been traded for in his career listed. It seems like while he played, “If Jagr’s available, trade for him” would have been good advice. There’s not a single great player on that list.
- Victoro311

Hell, the only good player on the list is Anson Carter.
ChrisMS
Joined: 05.02.2012

Wednesday @ 8:18 PM ET
Bad return obviously but pens got two 1st rounders and a second rounder and also dumped frantisek kuchera? Salary. Beech was a top 10 pick. Another beautiful attempt by Wilson to rewrite history with hindsight to aid him.

powerhouse
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: cumberland, MD
Joined: 11.28.2006

Wednesday @ 8:43 PM ET

Best. Mullet. Ever.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Joined: 01.21.2016

Wednesday @ 8:50 PM ET
Best. Mullet. Ever.
- powerhouse


E.v.e.r.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Joined: 01.21.2016

Wednesday @ 8:51 PM ET
Bad return obviously but pens got two 1st rounders and a second rounder and also dumped frantisek kuchera? Salary. Beech was a top 10 pick. Another beautiful attempt by Wilson to rewrite history with hindsight to aid him.
- ChrisMS


Yup. Talk about bad luck though. Having that many picks and prospects, none of which had an NHL career.
ChrisMS
Joined: 05.02.2012

Wednesday @ 9:22 PM ET
Yup. Talk about bad luck though. Having that many picks and prospects, none of which had an NHL career.
- Rinosaur


How much of that was on coaching and the organization just being bad?
PghPens668771
Pittsburgh Penguins
Joined: 11.26.2013

Wednesday @ 9:24 PM ET
With a salary cap the Pens might have been able to keep Jagr his entire career. Now whether or not that would have been a good thing is another matter. He was one of the best players of all time but his leadership was questionable.

If it wasn't for the salary cap the Pens would have also had to trade players like Crosby and Malkin. Hopefully they would have been able to get more than the power trio of Beech/Sivek/Lupaschek but they still would have had to make the trades. The Jagr trade was necessitated due to the lack of a cap. In spite of the many great (but not champion) Pens teams of the late 90's and in spite of the decent fan attendance numbers of the time the team still went bankrupt trying to pay competitive salaries to players, competing against much larger and wealthier cities (and wealthier owners).

Even if the Pens had by some miracle been able to stay in Pittsburgh without a cap they would have become like the Pirates - reduced to a de facto minor league team.
RoloTahmasee
Joined: 07.24.2009

Wednesday @ 9:31 PM ET
Just read the buyout comments from last thread.

So ROR if my understanding is correct, which it may not be, only has to be paid real salary & not any signing bonuses if he's bought out? The cap hit stays pretty much the same give or take, but 'actual' salary is minimal? For teams that have the cap room but are 'cheap' (let's say), that's very attractive to help get them to the floor.

That's if the signing bonuses don't have to be paid. That appears to be very risky on ROR part.

- Aussiepenguin


It's not so much buyout proof as it's lockout proof

The reason guys get huge signing bonuses at the beginning of each year is that they get paid whether there is a lockout or not
RoloTahmasee
Joined: 07.24.2009

Wednesday @ 9:33 PM ET
How much of that was on coaching and the organization just being bad?
- ChrisMS


Crappy scouting. Can't see them spending much on scouts if they were cash strapped

Probably read reviews from when those guys were in Bantam and thought they were pretty good
madmike71
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 12.21.2006

Wednesday @ 9:49 PM ET
With a salary cap the Pens might have been able to keep Jagr his entire career. Now whether or not that would have been a good thing is another matter. He was one of the best players of all time but his leadership was questionable.

If it wasn't for the salary cap the Pens would have also had to trade players like Crosby and Malkin. Hopefully they would have been able to get more than the power trio of Beech/Sivek/Lupaschek but they still would have had to make the trades. The Jagr trade was necessitated due to the lack of a cap. In spite of the many great (but not champion) Pens teams of the late 90's and in spite of the decent fan attendance numbers of the time the team still went bankrupt trying to pay competitive salaries to players, competing against much larger and wealthier cities (and wealthier owners).

Even if the Pens had by some miracle been able to stay in Pittsburgh without a cap they would have become like the Pirates - reduced to a de facto minor league team.

- PghPens668771


There were many aspects to that dark time. Sure, no cap was a problem, but the blame really fell on the previous owners. They mangled their cash flow and sold off revenue streams (concessions and parking) for immediate cash infusions. They also had the opportunity to participate in the deal for the other two stadiums, but settled (again) for a one time cash payment to marginally improve the civic arena.

Obviously the biggest problem was signing players to contracts the team couldn't afford. To make matters worse, Mario (obviously the biggest attraction) was paid his full salary even if he decided to retire.....which he did. That's how he became the largest creditor in the bankruptcy.

There's many other angles to that mess, but a level playing field was only a portion of it. I'm pretty certain the team still would have gone bankrupt even if the league had a cap in those days.

kfinl170
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: NJ
Joined: 07.05.2010

Wednesday @ 10:30 PM ET
A couple non Jagr items... Doc sounded just as good nearly 20 years ago and man did I love Marty Straka, one of my all time favorite pens
madmike71
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 12.21.2006

Wednesday @ 10:38 PM ET
A couple non Jagr items... Doc sounded just as good nearly 20 years ago and man did I love Marty Straka, one of my all time favorite pens
- kfinl170


Ditto. Great player. One of my all time favorites too.
acdc1206
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Hell of a run!, PA
Joined: 06.13.2007

Wednesday @ 10:39 PM ET
Didn't mention that Jagr had bad a groin injury and people didn't even know if he was going to play in Game 6.
cranktheradio
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Greensburg, PA
Joined: 07.02.2011

Wednesday @ 11:33 PM ET
Beech was actually considered a sure bet as a top 6 Two-way center at the time. He was coached into Oblivion.
Grinder47
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somerset, PA
Joined: 10.20.2013

Thursday @ 6:38 AM ET
I really thought this was going to be about Craig Adams. Damn.
PittsPens
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Westernport, MD
Joined: 01.06.2012

Thursday @ 7:04 AM ET
A couple non Jagr items... Doc sounded just as good nearly 20 years ago and man did I love Marty Straka, one of my all time favorite pens
- kfinl170


Loved Marty Straka. I also really liked German Titov for the 2 seasons he played for the Pens.
Mino42
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Philipsburg, PA
Joined: 08.10.2015

Thursday @ 7:10 AM ET
I remember riding my bike to my grams and saw my uncle Bob (The guy who got me into the Pens when I was 3) looking like his dog just died. He came over and broke the news and I didn't understand. I couldn't wrap my head around him not wearing that uniform again. Bad day for the city of Pittsburgh...
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: St. John's, NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Thursday @ 7:19 AM ET
I’ve never seen all the players Jagr’s been traded for in his career listed. It seems like while he played, “If Jagr’s available, trade for him” would have been good advice. There’s not a single great player on that list.
- Victoro311


Anson Carter was pretty good...no way comparable to 68 but a pretty good hockey player.
sufi-judge
Washington Capitals
Joined: 04.30.2015

Thursday @ 7:44 AM ET
It was “unbelievable” in Washington and I’ll always remember Ted Leonsis being all full of himself… parading Jagr around like he was the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

His comment during the introduction press conference was: “Welcome to the sixth day of the Jaromir Jagr love-fest. I’m really pleased with how the town has reacted. We almost had a riot at Dulles… we needed a police escort.” That was before dumping him for chump change and calling him out for being a bad attitude and McPhee portraying him as a coach-killer.

Never the less, Jagr was a super player with a lengthy career that never got a Stanley Cup other than those in Pittsburgh.

When he came to the Capitals there was Kolzig, Bondra, Oates, Lang, Gonchar, Dahlen, Zubrus, Johansson, Witt, Konowalchhuk, Nylander and much hope… except from George McPhee who warned Ted Leonsis that the Jagr trade was a bad idea. That they weren’t ready... that he had seen that movie before when in Vancouver and traded for Molgilny. But McPhee put on his happy face and played the Leonsis game.

The Capitals missed the playoffs 4 of 5 seasons after Jagr got here… and Jagr (although being a great story about longevity) never smelled the Stanley Cup since those two in Pittsburgh over a quarter of a century ago.

When Jagr was traded to the Rangers – Washington also picked up some of his salary. The Capitals couldn't wait to rid themselves of Jagr, who had underperformed on the ice and had alienated teammates off it.

And, that is the other side of the story which led indirectly to selection of Alex Ovechkin by the way... an albeit a long time it's first Stanley CUP.
YouMeAndDupuis9
Pittsburgh Penguins
Joined: 06.09.2014

Thursday @ 8:20 AM ET
I remember the online community being ecstatic when Jagr was traded. Beech had an amazing Corsi.
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