I posed this question on twitter and will do so here as well, first and second picks aside and not including Myers, which prospect are you most intrigued over?
- nastyflyergirl

For me it is Strome.

FWIW, I hate the term "replacement level player." Are you saying that, at 5 on 5 play, that Wayne Simmonds and Chris VandeVelde, or an AHL/NHL tweener, were essentially the exact same player? Because I would not.
- jmatchett383

Well Vandevelde is below replacement level, so no

Well Vandevelde is below replacement level, so no
- YuenglingJagr

Again, the term makes no sense.

Really? LOL Simmonds ranked in the top 40 in the NHL among RW's for EV point production.
- MJL

Yeah but he also had way more ice time. His points/60 was low. You're not painting the entire picture

Can you clarify "first and second picks?" Do you mean first and second round picks? I see a few people listing Allison (2nd round) and some listing both Rubstov (1st round) and Laberge (2nd round). But did you mean outside of our top-2 prospects (Frost and Farabee/Hart)?
- jmatchett383

no first or second round draft picks

Yeah but he also had way more ice time. His points/60 was low. You're not painting the entire picture
- bulet13

So who could have "replaced" exactly what he did 5v5 that we should have had instead of him? Which player should the Flyers have acquired in place of him?

Yeah but he also had way more ice time. His points/60 was low. You're not painting the entire picture
- bulet13

Actually I am. Your comment about Simmonds being a replacement level player is not painting the entire picture.

What was the difference in the ice time?

I've said it a few times: I see us trading Simmonds, and 3 years from now, saying, "Man, we could really use a Wayne-Simmonds type of player to put us over the top."
- jmatchett383

Yeah a 27 year old Wayne type of player, not a 33 year old one. Aren't some of y'all worried that he turns out like Lucic, Backes, or Brouwer. Every single one of those teams gave a big contract to an aging power forward in the past 3 years. Not a single one has turned out well. And I honestly can't think of a recent example of a team signing an aging power forward to a big deal and him producing up to the deal. This is nothing against Simmer. He's a warrior and an amazing guy. But in the cap it's even more important to have young guys on ELCs and I think that's the way the flyers should go

So who could have "replaced" exactly what he did 5v5 that we should have had instead of him? Which player should the Flyers have acquired in place of him?
- jmatchett383

We just signed JVR...

Actually I am. Your comment about Simmonds being a replacement level player is not painting the entire picture.

What was the difference in the ice time?
- MJL

Someone posted an article on like page 1 that has his per60 stats

Yeah a 27 year old Wayne type of player, not a 33 year old one. Aren't some of y'all worried that he turns out like Lucic, Backes, or Brouwer. Every single one of those teams gave a big contract to an aging power forward in the past 3 years. Not a single one has turned out well. And I honestly can't think of a recent example of a team signing an aging power forward to a big deal and him producing up to the deal. This is nothing against Simmer. He's a warrior and an amazing guy. But in the cap it's even more important to have young guys on ELCs and I think that's the way the flyers should go
- bulet13

He could. He could also end up continuing his production like Shanahan, Tkachuk, and Iginla.

Are his numbers going to go down in his 30s? Yes, but that's true of any player. Plus, as I've said, he doesn't play the "traditional" power forward style, so I don't think his body will break down as early as some others.

We just signed JVR...
- bulet13

JvR was available back in 16/17? Damn, why'd we wait to sign him?

Edit: You also missed the whole point. The term "replacement level" is what I have an issue with.

He could. He could also end up continuing his production like Shanahan, Tkachuk, and Iginla.

Are his numbers going to go down in his 30s? Yes, but that's true of any player. Plus, as I've said, he doesn't play the "traditional" power forward style, so I don't think his body will break down as early as some others.
- jmatchett383

Zaktly. He gets thrown into the power forward category but that's mostly because of his net front presence and rough and tumble style of play. In actuality he's 6'1" and like a buck80. Not your typical power forward frame. Apart from last season, his injury history isn't that bad at all.

Look we can argue about this all day and we have multiple times and probably noone is going to convince the other person. I think it is in the flyers best interest to trade Wayne, but this is complicated by the fact that we are hopefully going to be in the thick of a playoff race and could use him. Obviously losing him for nothing would be bad, and if simmer is willing to take a shorter term for slightly more AAV, I would be okay with it. But I think the flyers probably should have traded him this off-season, but they didn't so they will probably stick with him toll at least the end of the season barring catastrophe

My top 3:
Wade Allison
Mathew Strome
Noah Cates
- J35Bacher

cates
fedotov the goalie
Wisconsin dman

then case

JvR was available back in 16/17? Damn, why'd we wait to sign him?

Edit: You also missed the whole point. The term "replacement level" is what I have an issue with.
- jmatchett383

Also imagine all the good a player like Wayne Simmonds does to young players like Konecny, Patrick and Lindblom. Whether in the locker room, getting in front of the net, taking a beating but still making a key play or standing up for a teammate and dropping the gloves. That's some real trench warfare, lead-by-example stuff that I don't think you can put any type of measurement to.

JvR was available back in 16/17? Damn, why'd we wait to sign him?

Edit: You also missed the whole point. The term "replacement level" is what I have an issue with.
- jmatchett383

Look that's the language fancy stats guys use. What I actually mean is in ES points/60 he ranked in the bottom quartile for wingers in the NHL, both in 16/17 and last year

Again, the term makes no sense.
- jmatchett383

dont like the term but I think it refers to them being in the bottom 25% of the league metric wise. Which we all know metrics are not the end all be all

Also imagine all the good a player like Wayne Simmonds does to young players like Konecny, Patrick and Lindblom. Whether in the locker room, getting in front of the net, taking a beating but still making a key play or standing up for a teammate and dropping the gloves. That's some real trench warfare, lead-by-example stuff that I don't think you can put any type of measurement to.
- Pixote Andolini

Not saying he's the same but everything you just said is exactly what the Oilers thought when they signed Lucic.

I posed this question on twitter and will do so here as well, first and second picks aside and not including Myers, which prospect are you most intrigued over?
- nastyflyergirl

Felix Sandstrom - Everyone is giving Carter Hart the net when he is ready, but what do we really know about Sandstrom?

Wade Allison - Folks talk about him the way they talked about Lindblom before they ever saw him play. Also, he's a ginger and we've had good luck with those.

Mikhail Vorobyev - I want to see Laughton get and earn the 3C gig, but if Laughton doesn't get it, I'd like to see Vorobyev in the mix for that job.

Look that's the language fancy stats guys use. What I actually mean is in ES points/60 he ranked in the bottom quartile for wingers in the NHL, both in 16/17 and last year
- bulet13

On the other hand, his 2016-2017 season was the start of a troubling trend. Goals per 60 at a borderline 3rd line level, assists per 60 below replacement level, and points per 60 barely above replacement level. Replacement level refers to players who perform in the 25th percentile (league-wide) or lower. Yes, this past season was marred by injuries. Even so, his performance at 5v5 was not acceptable. He scored below replacement level, assisted below replacement level, and generated points and shots barely above replacement level.

Simmonds performance via Game Score per 60 was also alarming. Game Score is a catch-all stat incorporating player productivity on a per game level (or in this case, per 60). There is a sharp decline here that is tough to ignore. It is possible that his production at 5v5 could improve in the near future. However, banking on past performance informing future performance is a slippery slope.

Look that's the language fancy stats guys use. What I actually mean is in ES points/60 he ranked in the bottom quartile for wingers in the NHL, both in 16/17 and last year
- bulet13

I agree with you.

I just have an issue with the term. When I hear that a player is a "replacement level player," it makes me think that the player can be easily replaceable. I don't think you can easily replace Wayne Simmonds, even at 5v5, because point production is only part of what he brings to the team.

Not saying he's the same but everything you just said is exactly what the Oilers thought when they signed Lucic.
- J35Bacher

And if that's the case, why would any GM outside of Edmonton give the Flyers anything of value for such a declining, soon-to-be expensive asset?

I agree with you.

I just have an issue with the term. When I hear that a player is a "replacement level player," it makes me think that the player can be easily replaceable. I don't think you can easily replace Wayne Simmonds, even at 5v5, because point production is only part of what he brings to the team.
- jmatchett383

Fair enough. No arguments here

And if that's the case, why would any GM outside of Edmonton give the Flyers anything of value for such a declining, soon-to-be expensive asset?
- jmatchett383

That's why we gotta target the GMs inside of Edmonton