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Forums :: Blog World :: Todd Cordell: Grading the Calgary Flames' off-season moves
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Hunkulese
Calgary Flames
Location: QC
Joined: 09.30.2006

Aug 11 @ 1:50 PM ET
One thing I do know, Fox would not sign in Calgary & we basically would be stuck with a compensatory pick in June draft of 2020.
- Kevin R


And how exactly do you know that? Because Treliving hinted that because he didn't want to be blasted for the trade. Fox's team quickly came out and said that was never the case.
InSutterWeTrust
Calgary Flames
Location: AB
Joined: 08.09.2010

Aug 11 @ 2:30 PM ET
And how exactly do you know that? Because Treliving hinted that because he didn't want to be blasted for the trade. Fox's team quickly came out and said that was never the case.
- Hunkulese


I don't buy what Fox's team was selling, if they said that. Just looking at the player and looking at the limited opportunity there would have been for him made it highly "plausible" and even "probable" that signing him was going to be a real challenge. After 4 years in college, he wants to make the jump right into the NHL. The log jam of Defence prospects in Calgary made that less likely with the Flames.
Kevin R
Calgary Flames
Location: E5 = It aint gonna happen.
Joined: 02.10.2010

Aug 11 @ 2:31 PM ET
And how exactly do you know that? Because Treliving hinted that because he didn't want to be blasted for the trade. Fox's team quickly came out and said that was never the case.
- Hunkulese

You are such a turd. Treliving advised that his family advisor told him he was not intending on signing with Calgary. Why dont you just go to Treliving & call him a liar? How do you know he wasnt told that? Give your head a shake, this isnt even a discussion, anyone can take your approach & argue everything.
InSutterWeTrust
Calgary Flames
Location: AB
Joined: 08.09.2010

Aug 11 @ 2:35 PM ET
Trade rumor:

To Calgary - Erik Karlsson with signed extension.

To Ottawa - Sam Bennett, T.J. Brodie, Michael Stone, 2x 1st round picks.

Moving SB, TJB, MS gives you an additional 10.1 million in cap space on top of what ever it is now (7 or 8?)

Thoughts?

- zipfel


It seems that this part of the rumour was missed by a few.
That price gets an extended Karlsson. (Allegedly)

I guess it comes down to what that extention would look like.
Hunkulese
Calgary Flames
Location: QC
Joined: 09.30.2006

Aug 11 @ 2:40 PM ET
You are such a turd. Treliving advised that his family advisor told him he was not intending on signing with Calgary. Why dont you just go to Treliving & call him a liar? How do you know he wasnt told that? Give your head a shake, this isnt even a discussion, anyone can take your approach & argue everything.
- Kevin R


Fox's advisor said they made no indications to the Flames that he didn't want to sign with the Flames. Are you calling him a liar? Have you not figured out by now that everything a GM says publically is carefully crafted and rarely gives the whole truth? In March, Treliving said they weren't worried at all about Fox not signing. The Flames have no intention of moving Hamilton this offseason. Er, about that.

Like you said yourself, we have no idea what was said between the two. The point remains, you have absolutely no idea if Fox was going to sign with Flames or not.

The only thing we know is Fox wasn't going to sign with the Flames this year.
Kevin R
Calgary Flames
Location: E5 = It aint gonna happen.
Joined: 02.10.2010

Aug 11 @ 3:06 PM ET
Fox's advisor said they made no indications to the Flames that he didn't want to sign with the Flames. Are you calling him a liar? Have you not figured out by now that everything a GM says publically is carefully crafted and rarely gives the whole truth? In March, Treliving said they weren't worried at all about Fox not signing. The Flames have no intention of moving Hamilton this offseason. Er, about that.

Like you said yourself, we have no idea what was said between the two. The point remains, you have absolutely no idea if Fox was going to sign with Flames or not.

The only thing we know is Fox wasn't going to sign with the Flames this year.

- Hunkulese

Link to Fox camp denying what was said to Treliving? I havent read any such thing.
As for trades, players involved & injury reports, teams & GM's lie about that all the time. But something like the Fox situation, I doubt a GM would lie about what he was told. You really think Treliving would have done that deal if he felt Fox wanted to come play in Calgary?
Hunkulese
Calgary Flames
Location: QC
Joined: 09.30.2006

Aug 11 @ 3:24 PM ET
Link to Fox camp denying what was said to Treliving? I havent read any such thing.
As for trades, players involved & injury reports, teams & GM's lie about that all the time. But something like the Fox situation, I doubt a GM would lie about what he was told. You really think Treliving would have done that deal if he felt Fox wanted to come play in Calgary?

- Kevin R



https://twitter.com/Kent_...tatus/1012759113833570304 Short version


https://www.newsobserver....now/article214022919.html Long version


Carolina wasn't going to do the deal without Fox. Fox probably wasn't giving the Flames an indication either way about his plans, so Treliving made the deal then said they had strong concerns about Fox signing to save face.

And add to that, it didn't make a lot of sense to trade Fox this offseason if he wasn't going to sign. He can't become a UFA until 2020. He's probably going to get better this year and would have gotten a bigger return next year.
K-man25
Calgary Flames
Location: K Town
Joined: 09.02.2014

Aug 11 @ 7:52 PM ET
Have we traded for Karlson yet?
Kevin R
Calgary Flames
Location: E5 = It aint gonna happen.
Joined: 02.10.2010

Aug 11 @ 8:38 PM ET
https://twitter.com/Kent_...tatus/1012759113833570304 Short version


https://www.newsobserver....now/article214022919.html Long version


Carolina wasn't going to do the deal without Fox. Fox probably wasn't giving the Flames an indication either way about his plans, so Treliving made the deal then said they had strong concerns about Fox signing to save face.

And add to that, it didn't make a lot of sense to trade Fox this offseason if he wasn't going to sign. He can't become a UFA until 2020. He's probably going to get better this year and would have gotten a bigger return next year.

- Hunkulese

Thanks for the link, Kent Wilson is very credible. I would imagine the Flames wanted a commitment from him & the Fox camp basically said maybe but was sure he was going to finish his education. Kid comes from a wealthy family & his Harvard degree is important & the bonus is he can become a UFA & go from Harvard to an NHL roster. I would bet money he doesnt sign next spring & stays for his last year in school. If that happens, team loses any leverage & the value drops.
DuranDuran
Calgary Flames
Location: Quito
Joined: 09.29.2015

Aug 11 @ 9:36 PM ET
Have we traded for Karlson yet?
- K-man25


Has any credible news source actually said we are interested?
K-man25
Calgary Flames
Location: K Town
Joined: 09.02.2014

Aug 11 @ 9:41 PM ET
Has any credible news source actually said we are interested?
- DuranDuran

Depends. You consider Zipfel creditable?
DuranDuran
Calgary Flames
Location: Quito
Joined: 09.29.2015

Aug 11 @ 9:50 PM ET
Depends. You consider Zipfel creditable?
- K-man25


Only in Munich.

How you guys managing the heat in Ctown?
K-man25
Calgary Flames
Location: K Town
Joined: 09.02.2014

Aug 11 @ 9:57 PM ET
Only in Munich.

How you guys managing the heat in Ctown?

- DuranDuran

Oh it's been a hot couple weeks working. Fortunately I'm working 1/2 block to the beach, so lots of swims. Chase the shade as much as possible.
zipfel
Calgary Flames
Location: Calgary, AB
Joined: 04.24.2016

Aug 11 @ 10:09 PM ET
Only in Munich.
- DuranDuran



My reputation is very well established there.
DuranDuran
Calgary Flames
Location: Quito
Joined: 09.29.2015

Aug 11 @ 10:20 PM ET
Oh it's been a hot couple weeks working. Fortunately I'm working 1/2 block to the beach, so lots of swims. Chase the shade as much as possible.
- K-man25


BC?

I am on the coast in Northern Ecuador for the weekend. Think its colder here then back home.
K-man25
Calgary Flames
Location: K Town
Joined: 09.02.2014

Aug 11 @ 10:42 PM ET
BC?

I am on the coast in Northern Ecuador for the weekend. Think its colder here then back home.

- DuranDuran

K Town. We've had a incredible summer except for forest fires and smoke. Winds blown all the smoke out tonight but it can't be good for the fires.
K-man25
Calgary Flames
Location: K Town
Joined: 09.02.2014

Aug 11 @ 10:43 PM ET
My reputation is very well established there.
- zipfel

Well let's hope you got this right
VeryModernMan
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Munich
Joined: 06.06.2017

Aug 12 @ 5:53 AM ET
Only in Munich.
- DuranDuran


, here he can grow over himself from time to time!
Dollars2Donuts
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 08.30.2015

Aug 12 @ 10:11 AM ET
If he either extended with Ottawa before the trade OR we had permission to talk to Karlsson before the trade to work something out, then sure, but I still think I'd only give up one first rounder. Calgary isn't exactly loaded with top end prospects right now and we need our picks.

Besides, like I said, Ottawa HAS to trade Karlsson, we don't absolutely need him. Sure, I'd love to have him on my team, but is he a must have piece for the Flames? No. Our blue line is already fine.

If I'm Ottawa, I'm doing Bennett, Brodie, Stone and a 1st for Karlsson. If I'm Calgary, I'm doing that IF there's an extension attached, or we get word he will extend with us. If there's no extension, there's no way in Hell I'm giving up significant parts of our future for 1 playoff run.

Ottawa is the team in a bind, not Calgary.

- Helios


The ‘bind’ doesn’t matter, because Calgary is not the ONLY team in the NHL going after him.

Brodie has been exposed as a wanna-be too end player. Having watched Calgary all year last year, I would say he is a 3 on a decent team, at best. If he is in your top 2, you are likely in trouble.

Bennett is just not what he was advertised to be. He will likely never be a C in the NHL and while he would fall into Ottawa’s top 6, that doesn’t mean that he is a top 6 player.

Stone is a third pair dman, making too much money.

A first? Big yip.

If Ottawa managed to get him extended, then Calgary should absolutely jump on a deal like this. The problem is, this scenario is just the musings of some guy, and not some actual rumour.
HonkyTonkMan
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Home to ruined prospects and overpaid slugs', AB
Joined: 06.10.2015

Aug 12 @ 10:40 AM ET
So you're moving Klefbom, Puljujaarvi, Nurse/Sekera and 2 firsts for Karlsson?

I would walk, and here's why:

1) Our farm system is already thin
2) We had no 1st, 2nd or 3rd last year
3) Ottawa, stupidly, held onto the 4th overall this year knowing that they are likely to be contending for #1 overall next year (Hughes, a franchise player). They are desperate for picks at this point
4) Brodie instantly steps into their top pairing
5) Bennett at the very least is a top 6 winger on that team and we are expecting him to develop into a top 6 here
6) Karlsson's price in terms of return drops the further into the season you get. Getting an elite guy for 20-30 games at the end of the regular season is historically cheaper than acquiring a guy for a full season
7) There is no guarantee he signs here next year. If he does walk, you spent the next 5 years of your franchise on 1 playoff run.

If lottery protected, I would include a 2020 1st.
If he agreed to extend, I'd be willing to throw in more.

- rmull905


You just compared Stone to Nurse/Sekeras...(frank)in Flames fans.
TandA4Flames
Calgary Flames
Joined: 05.10.2010

Aug 12 @ 10:51 AM ET
Yeah & McDavid may only have an 80 point season next year, could happen, but not really likely. Whats your point? All analytics & stats lead one to expect progression from players that are 21 & 23 respectively & were talented enough to be scouted & drafted in the top 5 of their respective NHL draft years. What are we arguing here?

One thing I do know, Fox would not sign in Calgary & we basically would be stuck with a compensatory pick in June draft of 2020. We miss out on 1 more year of Ferland because you know Treliving was not going to back the wheel barrel full of money up to him next year. Certainly not going to trade him at the TDL next year unless you think we will be rebuilding & in the hunt for Hughes. So there's another asset that walks for virtually nothing. Personally, I am shocked that both these kids were available in a trade given Carolina is certainly not about to start a rebuild, they are players you rebuild with.

- Kevin R


Fox was a 3rd round pick. You only receive compensatory picks for a 1st rounder that won’t sign.
If Ferland continued to grow his point totals and becomes a legitimate impact player, Tre would have found a way to get him signed.
Carolina’s new owner has said he is taking a hard line with the team. Both Lindholm and Hanifin were proving to be difficult to sign and may not have wanted to sign there regardless.
I love the players we got in return, but we still gave up too much in that trade.
TandA4Flames
Calgary Flames
Joined: 05.10.2010

Aug 12 @ 10:52 AM ET
Wow, not sure where all that bold text came from? No I’m not angry lol.
HonkyTonkMan
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Home to ruined prospects and overpaid slugs', AB
Joined: 06.10.2015

Aug 12 @ 12:45 PM ET
Wow, not sure where all that bold text came from? No I’m not angry lol.
- TandA4Flames


Gave up a lot but it’s not beyond reason that Doug H was becoming a problem. If a bunch of idiots on the internet can put it together, I’m sure every GM in the league knows it too.

We haven’t seen a fair Hockey Trade in the NHL in years, this is probably the best or fairest in a while.

Also....Ferland sucked and is a big time Coke fiend. Lindholm is a massive upgrade.

You guys did fine.

whats with the Bold, spazz, your comment isnt that important?
TandA4Flames
Calgary Flames
Joined: 05.10.2010

Aug 12 @ 1:24 PM ET
Gave up a lot but it’s not beyond reason that Doug H was becoming a problem. If a bunch of idiots on the internet can put it together, I’m sure every GM in the league knows it too.

We haven’t seen a fair Hockey Trade in the NHL in years, this is probably the best or fairest in a while.

Also....Ferland sucked and is a big time Coke fiend. Lindholm is a massive upgrade.

You guys did fine.

whats with the Bold, spazz, your comment isnt that important?

- HonkyTonkMan

That’s a major accusation to call him a coke fiend. He’s had issues with achohol but has been clean for years with McGratton as a mentor.
I answered that in the very next post. 👍
Hunkulese
Calgary Flames
Location: QC
Joined: 09.30.2006

Aug 12 @ 2:06 PM ET
Gave up a lot but it’s not beyond reason that Doug H was becoming a problem. If a bunch of idiots on the internet can put it together, I’m sure every GM in the league knows it too.

We haven’t seen a fair Hockey Trade in the NHL in years, this is probably the best or fairest in a while.

Also....Ferland sucked and is a big time Coke fiend. Lindholm is a massive upgrade.

You guys did fine.

whats with the Bold, spazz, your comment isnt that important?

- HonkyTonkMan


There have been plenty of fair trades, and it's way too early to even try and assess this one. You generally don't want to be gambling with potential when you make a trade and the Flames are. Both Lindholm and Hanifin were slightly disappointing in Carolina, and if they don't pretty significant steps forward, the Flames got fleeced.

I'm not really sure how much better Lindholm is than Ferland. Ferland's been better every year, and was far more than just a passenger on the top line last year. He was a big reason the line was top 5 in the league for the first 75% of the season. He was on pace for 30 goals before he got injured, then did absolutely nothing after the injury. I could easily see him settling into a top six 20 to 25 goals a year power forward, and there aren't very many of those in the league.
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