from what you showed looks like Allen to me
- rinaldo

PSV = playoffs ... smaller sample size...

.925 to .913 reg season Elliott better...

.922 to .907 playoff...Allen better

My argument has been they are the same guy... kinda looks that way..

both parts are true. Everyone needs to do their job. That doesn't always happen and yes the Flyers have had more breakdowns than bad goaltending this season. When Pickard made big saves you could see the team respond, knowing you have a goalie to save your arse is huge for confidence.
- wcorvette

I think that would be far more valid if the Flyers had their team game consistent. They don't. So if players are thinking about their goaltending not being good enough and it's affecting their play. That's a real problem. The goalies have bailed out their teammates plenty. How many times has a goalie bailed out Provorov?

PSV = playoffs ... smaller sample size...

.925 to .913 reg season Elliott better...

.922 to .907 playoff...Allen better

My argument has been they are the same guy... kinda looks that way..
- dragonoffrost

as I said I would roll the dice on Allen to see what he can do. never said he was the answer just a guy a take the risk with. maybe it works maybe it doesn't. what they currently have will not work.

Did I say quality assets? I'm not asking them to move a top prospect or a 1st or 2nd rounder, however, if you can land a solid NHL goalie for a 3rd or maybe a 4th paired with a B level prospect, they should do it.
- BiggE

Agreed we have enough talent in the pipeline. Losing a few 3rds or 4ths plus a bubble potential guy for a solid number 1 would be a good thing. We cannot keep holding on to assets hoping for the future. Sometimes you stock the cupboard so when needed you can trade for some sugar and chocolate like in the 1800's when we were boys lol!

I think that would be far more valid if the Flyers had their team game consistent. They don't. So if players are thinking about their goaltending not being good enough and it's affecting their play. That's a real problem. The goalies have bailed out their teammates plenty. How many times has a goalie bailed out Provorov?
- MJL

when the goaltending is poor players will think it about it. thats natural and it happens. To say otherwise shows you never played the game.

You can't argue with the win and 2 points BUT our Power Play was -2 last night. Think about that. No way we can continue with a league-worst PK and bottom half PP that lets up shorties on a regular basis. Happened last year too.

Hexy is kidding himself. We need to make changes.

Esche
Chekmanek
Boucher
Leighton
Burke
Quellet
Niittymaki
Emery
Pickard
Neuvirth

No particular order. Unfortunately I dont know most og the goalies before Checkmanek
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

all do respect only the guru can do top 10 list.

Please, no kidding. Have you ever played ice hockey at a level above peewee? If you have, then you know that there is a confidence level factor that is in play based on the quality of your teammates, especially the goaltender. I played up to Junior at age 18 (US, not Canada). I played in front of good goalies, including Mike Richter at a hockey summer camp and some piss poor ones. You absolutely get a sense of confidence when you know you are playing in front of a goaltender that is good enough to erase the occasional mistake and can make, on a at least a semi regular basis, that huge momentum shifting save that the better goalies seem to make.

It's not about thinking your goalie isn't good enough, it's about having the confidence to know that when the inevitable mistakes are made, your goalie is good enough to bail you out. Other than Elliott, I don't think they feel that way about the rest of the bunch. Obviously I don't know this for sure, but it's just as obvious that you don't know that it's not how they feel.
- BiggE

Also, when you get that big stop, tables can turn quickly the other way for a goal.

Barking up the wrong tree. If you played then you know how important a team is. If you're looking at others instead of yourself then you don't have a team. The skaters need to correct their game rather than worrying about the goaltending. A mindset of a good team is to go out and do your job and things fall into place. If you played you should know that.
- MJL

JFC. you do realize that everything isn't black or white, that there are shades or grey, right?? Of course players have to look to themselves to play well, that goes without saying (well to everyone but you it does), but if you don't think how your teammates play doesn't affect your on ice performance than you really have no idea of how a team works.

For example: While I played wing at times, I mostly played D. I was a big guy, very physical with good skills, but I was far from the best skater in the world. However, if I knew that my partner was a strong skater, than I knew that I could take the occasional chance in the O zone because he had the speed to compensate if I got caught. However, if paired with a less effective skater, I'd play a more conservative game.

It's the same with your goalie. If I'm playing in front of a sieve, and lord knows, I'd played in front of a few, I'm going to go out of my way to block as many shots as possible. If I'm playing in front of a good goalie, I'm much less concerned with blocking shots and I'm much more concerned with keeping the porch cleared and making sure he can see the shot that is coming because I know that if he can see it, he's probably going to stop it.

For someone who claims to be the end all/be all of hockey knowledge, you really don't seem to have much of a grasp on how the inter-dynamics of a team really works. Players aren't robots, they have feelings and thoughts and confidence in both their own play, the play of their teammates and in the coaching staff all factor into their on ice performance.

Also, when you get that big stop, tables can turn quickly the other way for a goal.
- Konalover

For example: While I played wing at times, I mostly played D. I was a big guy, very physical with good skills, but I was far from the best skater in the world. However, if I knew that my partner was a strong skater, I knew that could take the occasional chance in the O zone because he had the speed to compensate if I got caught. However, if paired with a less effective skater, I'd play a more conservative game.
- BiggE

I'm the same way but opposite. My usual D partner is at least 20 years younger than me, maybe 25. He's way faster on the skates than I am so he's the offensive portion of our pairing. I'm quite happy to be the sound positional player of the pairing.

As for goaltending, it matters, too. With our regular guy we play a certain way and know the kind of situations he'll more than likely bail us out of if something goes awry. When we have a sub, especially one we are unfamiliar with, we play much more conservatively because we don't know what we've got back there.

I'm sure that even in the NHL similar stuff happens.

I agree here. Chicago would smell the desperation if the Flyers tried to get him now. And if they wait till the TDL bigger chance another goalie goes down to increase a bidding war. You cant tell me Florida wouldn't be interested.
- youarewrong

Mr Magoo could smell our desperation!

10 years ago today there was a very cold BuzzGate.

I'm the same way but opposite. My usual D partner is at least 20 years younger than me, maybe 25. He's way faster on the skates than I am so he's the offensive portion of our pairing. I'm quite happy to be the sound positional player of the pairing.

As for goaltending, it matters, too. With our regular guy we play a certain way and know the kind of situations he'll more than likely bail us out of if something goes awry. When we have a sub, especially one we are unfamiliar with, we play much more conservatively because we don't know what we've got back there.

I'm sure that even in the NHL similar stuff happens.
- Scoob

Exactly the point I was trying to make. It was weird situation for me for a couple of years. Although I usually played with a kid who skated like the wind, he had the weakest shot on the team and no offensive creativity to his game at all, but he was always in good position defensively and could effectively use his speed and stick to break up plays at our blue line and quickly have the puck moving the other way. I, OTOH, wasn't much of a skater, but I was pretty good with the puck, was an accurate passer and while my slap shot was only so-so, I had a nasty, accurate wrister. Once we got set up in the O zone, I'd be the one who slide in deeper looking for some open ice knowing that forwards would get the puck to me for that wrist shot. I knew that my partner would have my back and I'd make sure the wing on my side was aware of how I played in the O zone and would also be in position to hustle back as well.

Obviously when I played with slower partners or forwards who weren't so adept at dropping back defensively, I played a more conservative game.

I think that would be far more valid if the Flyers had their team game consistent. They don't. So if players are thinking about their goaltending not being good enough and it's affecting their play. That's a real problem. The goalies have bailed out their teammates plenty. How many times has a goalie bailed out Provorov?
- MJL

i dont think his comment was specific to just the start of the season, I think it is overall. There is a difference having a Pickard back there or having a Crawford. Pickard bailed out the D on the road, he didn't last night. I don't think the players are saying cant believe he didn't stop one of those breakaways, they are saying how did we let that happen. On the other hand they know and everyone in hockey knows the challenge as it relates to the Flyers goaltending, including the Flyer players. Does a team with a rock solid goalie play a little loser and with more confidence because of? YES

Not even close. Off the top of my head:

Martin Houle
Johan Backlund
Cal Heeter
Dominic Roussell

Some of the guys you listed (Cechmanek, Boucher, Esche) were actually very good for large portions of their Flyers careers. Emery and Nitty were also good when healthy.
- jmatchett383

Esche and Boucher were awful. Checkmanek was not a good goalie either. His success was based off the team.

I dont really recognize any of the names you listed

when the goaltending is poor players will think it about it. thats natural and it happens. To say otherwise shows you never played the game.
- rinaldo

And when a goalie is getting pelted because breakdown after breakdown in front of them it also affects the goalie. It's a vicious cycle right now with this team. Neither is helping the other.

And when a goalie is getting pelted because breakdown after breakdown in front of them it also affects the goalie. It's a vicious cycle right now with this team. Neither is helping the other.
- dragonoffrost

THIS

BREAKING NEWS

JUST IN CASE YOU TURNED OFF THE GAME AFTER THE 2 SHORTIES ON THE SAME PP

THE FLYERS DID COME BACK AND WIN...


PROCEED.

Esche and Boucher were awful. Checkmanek was not a good goalie either. His success was based off the team.

I dont really recognize any of the names you listed
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Esche and Boucher (first stint) both led this team to within 1 game of the SCF, and did well while doing so. Boucher also did this as a rookie. Cechmanek was actually a Vezina candidate, and he literally had to pitch a shutout for his team to win a playoff game, he was just a basket case.

Lyon: Inexperienced kid with some success at the NHL level. I very much doubt the players would be full of confidence playing in front of him.

- BiggE

A few of the current squad has played with him at the AHL level and saw him battle in the playoffs. Now that he is healthy, I say give this guy another chance - I believe that he has earned it. Having said that, in the long run I really don't care who plays in goal as long as they are ready and won't pass out during commercial break.

And when a goalie is getting pelted because breakdown after breakdown in front of them it also affects the goalie. It's a vicious cycle right now with this team. Neither is helping the other.
- dragonoffrost

one has nothing to do what is being discussed. 2 different situation. goalie has one job stop the puck.

And when a goalie is getting pelted because breakdown after breakdown in front of them it also affects the goalie. It's a vicious cycle right now with this team. Neither is helping the other.
- dragonoffrost

Well, yeah, there's that, too. I was glad for Pickard that he got the hook last night.

BREAKING NEWS

JUST IN CASE YOU TURNED OFF THE GAME AFTER THE 2 SHORTIES ON THE SAME PP

THE FLYERS DID COME BACK AND WIN...


PROCEED.
- wcorvette

#fakepoints

Well, yeah, there's that, too. I was glad for Pickard that he got the hook last night.
- Scoob

Yep that hook wasn't a hook the poor playing goalie hook. It was a wake up the team hook.