For me, terrible is a stretch. Rarely will a guy hit that spot perfectly from that angle and he had to worry about the guy streaking in back door, so he had to be ready to push off. There wasn't much to shoot at and credit to Sprong on nailing the shot IMO. I think the goalies have to really find a balance between covering every square inch on the post and being ready to react to lateral movement. There will always be a hole somewhere.

Look how much he had covered when the shot was happening.




If Kane had scored a goal like this, we'd be talking about how great he shot it, not how awful the goalie was.
- breadbag

I played goalie in college in the early 80s, long before this new style (we still had leather pads). With a guy down that low, you stand up & put your left skate hard against the inside of the post. Your butt is also agains the post. Your upper body eliminates any chance of the puck going short side, and you are prepared to push off the post to move laterally if the pass goes across the slot.

The new style is better in many instances, for example, the butterfly with the new pads takes away any chance of a shot going in on the ice. However, there are a few instances where the old style is better. Goal #2 last night was one instance.

So, tonight is game 15 without Q. The Hawks played 15 games under Q. So, 15 games vs. 14 games so far:

PP Q 7/50=14.0%
PP JC 3/33=9.1%

PK Q 76.6%
PK JC 70.3%

G/G Q 3.07
G/G JC 2.36

GA/G Q 3.73
GA/G JC 3.64

SAT Q 51.5%
SAT JC 49.8%

What jumps out of the raw data is that the Hawks are similarly bad defensively under both coaches (and regardless of system changes), but Q managed to get more offense out of the roster. The power play manages to be even worse under JC.

It's been a month. Normally, teams play inspired for a month under a new coach when it is clear the old coach had lost the team. The Hawks have not seen such inspiration, suggesting that Q may not have lost the team.

To my eye, the Hawks are missing Q's greatest strengths, which gave this awful roster a fighting chance . . . playing match ups and in-game adjustments. The result is offense is down ~25%.

Firing Q, Stan has actually exposed how terrible HIS roster is. Congrats, Stan.
- gmurban

I played goalie in college in the early 80s, long before this new style (we still had leather pads). With a guy down that low, you stand up & put your left skate hard against the inside of the post. Your butt is also agains the post. Your upper body eliminates any chance of the puck going short side, and you are prepared to push off the post to move laterally if the pass goes across the slot.

The new style is better in many instances, for example, the butterfly with the new pads takes away any chance of a shot going in on the ice. However, there are a few instances where the old style is better. Goal #2 last night was one instance.
- scottak

Exactly

I played goalie in college in the early 80s, long before this new style (we still had leather pads). With a guy down that low, you stand up & put your left skate hard against the inside of the post. Your butt is also agains the post. Your upper body eliminates any chance of the puck going short side, and you are prepared to push off the post to move laterally if the pass goes across the slot.

The new style is better in many instances, for example, the butterfly with the new pads takes away any chance of a shot going in on the ice. However, there are a few instances where the old style is better. Goal #2 last night was one instance.
- scottak

Thanks for the breakdown. That's cool you played in college and goalie at that.

Wonder how many other posters on these boards have played goalie (or still play today).

https://thehockeynews.com...claw-back-from-ugly-start

Interesting article that illuminates a strategy that might serve the Hawks well. If they can only apply themselves and employ ANY strategy, though, then that would be a good first step in the right direction.

As someone said yesterday, it really does look like they're just playing shinny out there with no care for structure or discipline.

Neither do I.
- DarthKane

I know, hence the quotation marks. I'm wise to your ways.

So, tonight is game 15 without Q. The Hawks played 15 games under Q. So, 15 games vs. 14 games so far:

PP Q 7/50=14.0%
PP JC 3/33=9.1%

PK Q 76.6%
PK JC 70.3%

G/G Q 3.07
G/G JC 2.36

GA/G Q 3.73
GA/G JC 3.64

SAT Q 51.5%
SAT JC 49.8%

What jumps out of the raw data is that the Hawks are similarly bad defensively under both coaches (and regardless of system changes), but Q managed to get more offense out of the roster. The power play manages to be even worse under JC.

It's been a month. Normally, teams play inspired for a month under a new coach when it is clear the old coach had lost the team. The Hawks have not seen such inspiration, suggesting that Q may not have lost the team.

To my eye, the Hawks are missing Q's greatest strengths, which gave this awful roster a fighting chance . . . playing match ups and in-game adjustments. The result is offense is down ~25%.

Firing Q, Stan has actually exposed how terrible HIS roster is. Congrats, Stan.
- gmurban

I hope that they really understand - as opposed to what they publicly say - the replacing Q with ANYONE was not about salvaging a playoff spot this season. That wasn't going to happen, with Q, with a vintage Scotty Bowman, with anyone.

We mostly knew that starting in October - even with the deceiving "hot start".

I would hope that replacing Q would be a move for the future - for the prospects, for the planned-for Cup runs starting in two or three years, for the development of the young players (here, in Rockford, in juniors or Europe, in future drafts) and integrating with whatever would remain of the core.

IMO, Q was not the coach for a job like that. Colliton may be - nothing proven one way or the other yet.

It will play out....

They maybe threw him to the sharks, but I'm willing to bet they had a conversation with him about it first. I mean, he jumped in the water and I'm willing to bet he didn't have to do it yet. I doubt it was a "this is your only chance" situation, but probably more of a "if you feel you are ready to make the jump" situation.
- breadbag

I bet the $1.4M x 3 years had something to do with him jumping in.

Joki-Harju!
Joki-Harju!
Harju-Harju!
Joki-Joki!

(This song has been in my head all day)
- Chief4Feathers

That is funny as hell.

Just would like to point out that Kampf and Keith looked pretty good last night. I know Kampf is Colliton's favorite, so it's nice to see him getting an opportunity.

Keith looked quick and shifty with the puck, repeatedly made Anaheim forecheckers give up when it was Keith behind the net faking out their F1.

Kampf had a few plays that really helped him stand out, I hope we don't move him right now as he's playing a very fast game. He hasn't been able to finish much, but his chances will come with this consistent showing.
- ObeseOprah

To me what stood out was Kampf and Kahun's willingness to cut to the slot while lugging the puck

Thanks for the breakdown. That's cool you played in college and goalie at that.

Wonder how many other posters on these boards have played goalie (or still play today).
- AEL_Fox

I did out on the pond, back when we would cut a paper plate to look like Tony O's mask and stuff extra Sunday papers in our shin pads. For shots like that we would put our skate against the shoe marking the goal post and not worry about high shots as they did not count if over knee level.

I hope that they really understand - as opposed to what they publicly say - the replacing Q with ANYONE was not about salvaging a playoff spot this season. That wasn't going to happen, with Q, with a vintage Scotty Bowman, with anyone.

We mostly knew that starting in October - even with the deceiving "hot start".

I would hope that replacing Q would be a move for the future - for the prospects, for the planned-for Cup runs starting in two or three years, for the development of the young players (here, in Rockford, in juniors or Europe, in future drafts) and integrating with whatever would remain of the core.

IMO, Q was not the coach for a job like that. Colliton may be - nothing proven one way or the other yet.

It will play out....
- StLBravesFan

The bolded part is along the lines of what my perspective is on Colliton being hired over other more experienced NHL coaches. Putting lunacy aside as a reason, it may explain the immediate 3-year contract rather than an interim tag.

Is Colliton the ideal coach to do as you stated? Like you said, maybe. There could be other coaches out there that may have foot the bill better than Colliton but fact of the matter is that management chose him for better or worse.

I’m actually enjoying the Warren Commission/Zapruder film level of scrutiny - makes me feel better about my own Hawk-compulsive issues.
- Chief4Feathers

If you look at frames 623 to 657 you'll see his head lean forward then snap backwards. (Sorry JFK)

I did out on the pond, back when we would cut a paper plate to look like Tony O's mask and stuff extra Sunday papers in our shin pads. For shots like that we would put our skate against the shoe marking the goal post and not worry about high shots as they did not count if over knee level.
- riozzo

You would have been fine with those make-shift pads or even no pads at all if Keith was playing with y'all on the pond and taking shots from the point.

If you look closely, there was a second puck shot at Crawford’s head... from the Zamboni bay.
- Chief4Feathers

You're one sick dude. Sort of like me.[/img]

If you look at frames 623 to 657 you'll see his head lean forward then snap backwards. (Sorry JFK)
- boilermaker100

Back and to the left. Thats one magical loogie.

I played goalie in college in the early 80s, long before this new style (we still had leather pads). With a guy down that low, you stand up & put your left skate hard against the inside of the post. Your butt is also agains the post. Your upper body eliminates any chance of the puck going short side, and you are prepared to push off the post to move laterally if the pass goes across the slot.

The new style is better in many instances, for example, the butterfly with the new pads takes away any chance of a shot going in on the ice. However, there are a few instances where the old style is better. Goal #2 last night was one instance.
- scottak

I played goalie growing up, through high school and practiced with my college club team in the 90's and early 00's - not a big deal Now I play defense because I was tired of being shelled every night in men's league. Haha.

Anyways, I totally agree with you about the butterfly taking away the bottom of the net, etc. and there being pros and cons for both styles.

When I played, we were taught to always stand and hug the post on a play like that because there's no way it can go in top shelf. Once the player went behind the net, you could choose to drop and put the paddle out (to stop centering passes) or continue to stand and lay the blade out to disrupt centering passes. Either way, you always kept your skate snuggle up against the post to be able to push to the other side, or to quickly slide out to the top of your crease.

The problem is we will never know what kind of positive change was possible if the Hawks had hired an experienced, respected coach with just a different approach than Q. The Hawks did the opposite of this. For a team containing highly successful veteran players with 3 Cups, Olympic Golds, Conn Smythes, a Hart and an Art Ross the Hawks chose to hire a coach with not a single game coached in the NHL. Not even as an Assistant. Coached in Sweden, team in lower level most of time he is there. Rockford in AHL - all of ONE season. Didn’t win it all in the AHL - lost in the Western Final. In North America his experience is exactly ONE season in the AHL and he is going to instruct Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Toews about how to play hockey. No recipe for disaster there do you think? Vegas hires Gallant, Toronto hires Babcock, Edmonton hires Hitchcock, Chicago hires Colliton. Guess which hiring is different from the others?

The fact that Front Office Ghoul Granato and Scotty Minion Smith are the Assistants turns my stomach. The Hawks just seem so dysfunctional.

There is nothing stopping this coaching staff from making moves that make sense. Where is the new great PP? D System? Great Line Combinations? Where is anything positive?
- Z3Hawk

Good retort and great points. Think the other dynamic here is the FO hoping for some kind of Sullivan-like turnaround with this hire. They overlooked the fact that the Pens hated their outgoing coach and were asking for a change. Opposite here, for the core vets at least.

They also stuck him and them with at least one assistant with inherent associated distrust in Smith.

Thanks for the breakdown. That's cool you played in college and goalie at that.

Wonder how many other posters on these boards have played goalie (or still play today).
- AEL_Fox

I spent some of my years coaching goalies, and a few at the AAA level. And I completely agree with Scottak as that's how I coached it . Philco has it right in my opinion as well. If you take the first one standing and hugging the post the shooter can't score, any rebound can be directed in any direction the goalie chooses, and the goalie can take a quick look to see if there is a potential shooter in the slot or weak side so he knows which way to direct the rebound. The goalie also has his blade edges on the ice so his push across the crease is that much quicker if need be. The buterfly makes no sense to me if a shot originates from outside the faceoff dot.

When Crawford got to Chicago after he was drafted he was not a butterfly guy. And he was as quick with his feet and hands as both Darren Pang and Jimmy Waite. I saw it close up with my own eyes. But the powers that were at the time sent him to Rockford to learn the butterfly anyway. What that does is rob a goalie of his core strength when moving his hands and feet. The glove hand is relying on the arm and especially the rotator cuff which can cause issues eventually. The hips also take more of a beating than they should. Crawford was a perfect cantidate for the hybrid style I used to coach.

I also agree with Z3 in that Crawford flinched and turned away from the shot last night. That's not a good sign. And while I can't conclude it's because of symptoms, I can open my mind to the possibility.

To me what stood out was Kampf and Kahun's willingness to cut to the slot while lugging the puck
- 6628

I think Kampf and Kahun would be great bottom 6 guys, but that would require us to have a viable top 6. There's just a gaping hole at Top RW.

Saad-Toews-Ghost of Hossa
Debrincat-Strome-Kane

Need a viable top RW. And more forward depth to push everyone else down the lineup.

D could take care of itself with the kids in the pipeline, although few players ever arrive ready to take the league head on.

You would have been fine with those make-shift pads or even no pads at all if Keith was playing with y'all on the pond and taking shots from the point.
- AEL_Fox

Dipshat Gustafson would show up in July and drown trying to play pond hockey

Dipshat Gustafson would show up in July and drown trying to play pond hockey
- PatShart

That's beautiful

Dipshat Gustafson would show up in July and drown trying to play pond hockey
- PatShart

GUSTAFSSON IS THE NEXT COFFEY!

ALL YOU HATERS CAN SUCK IT!

For me the on ice trainwreck isn't fun to watch at all. I do agree it isn't surprising. What I do enjoy is watching most of the posters here making bizzare trade ideas, blaming everyone and anyone for the team's problems and one guy claiming the cap isn't difficult to manage. I'm waiting for some of these posters to jump off the ledges they are precarliously perched on.
- paulr

Why wait...

Why wait...


- HawkintheD

Pittsburgh fans are jumping off the ledge?