So... obviously Murray > DeSmith.
- Guile

I'm not saying this wrong, but I think it's wrong to judge game-by-game. Prior to Murray coming back, DeSmith was top-ten in the NHL stats-wise. Again, not saying I don't agree with this, but it's the same as someone saying opposite the next time Murray has a "four-goal-murray" game.

Paul Martin put up 24 points and was decent at driving possession and ended up as a positive goal differential (+5) at 5v5 his first season in Pittsburgh lol that’s a weird misconception/comparison.
- j.boyd919

People wanted 40 points from him. Imagine the hatred if JJ had such expectations instead of "I hope he doesn't suck"

I'm not saying this wrong, but I think it's wrong to judge game-by-game. Prior to Murray coming back, DeSmith was top-ten in the NHL stats-wise. Again, not saying I don't agree with this, but it's the same as someone saying opposite the next time Murray has a "four-goal-murray" game.
- Rinosaur

It was a joke after we flopped against the Blackhawks, again.

I remember a lot of people having misguided expectations of what Paul Martin was supposed to bring.
- Rinosaur

That is really what it was, IMO. He wasn’t bad at all his first season, just not what people were expecting.

I remember a lot of people having misguided expectations of what Paul Martin was supposed to bring.
- Rinosaur

True, but I think Martin's second season was the one where he struggled. I specifically remember Shero talking about a conversation he had with Martin after that season. He asked Martin "if he wanted out".....like Michalek wanted out. Martin declined and committed himself to being better the next year. Which he was. He actually had a pretty nice career with the Penguins. He was really good at "the little things". Didn't necessarily put up points consistently, but never made many mistakes either. They could really use a guy like him now.

That is really what it was, IMO. He wasn’t bad at all his first season, just not what people were expecting.
- j.boyd919

Our blue line was also a (frank)ing disaster that season. Remember Michalek? I think Engo played the vast majority of games that year too. A blue line that featured Zibby Michalek, Derek Engaland, and getting up there Brooks Orpik was not going to find success in Dan Bylsma’s stretch pass system regardless of how well Letang, Paul Martin, and Gogo played.

True, but I think Martin's second season was the one where he struggled. I specifically remember Shero talking about a conversation he had with Martin after that season. He asked Martin "if he wanted out".....like Michalek wanted out. Martin declined and committed himself to being better the next year. Which he was. He actually had a pretty nice career with the Penguins. He was really good at "the little things". Didn't necessarily put up points consistently, but never made many mistakes either. They could really use a guy like him now.
- madmike71

No it was his first season where he was a whipping boy here. After that he was fine.

We basically have Paul Martin light in Dumo now.

No it was his first season where he was a whipping boy here. After that he was fine.

We basically have Paul Martin light in Dumo now.
- Victoro311

He was fine his first season....I agree. People thought he was a point producer and yes, I agree he was a whipping boy.

However, I specifically remember his second season not being very good on the defensive side of the puck. And I also remember Ray Shero's interview where he acknowledged Martin wasn't very good and he admitted he asked Martin if he wanted to be traded and Martin declined. The same thing happened with Michalek and Michalek confirmed he wanted to be traded.....and he was....right back to Zona.

The reason I remember this so vividly is because I was surprised Shero would provide these guys the option of being moved. I can't imagine that is a typical thing for GM's.

Anyway.... I don't know what his numbers looked like after season two, but I remember he wasn't as good as his first. It must have been bad enough for the GM to ask him if he wanted to traded.

He was fine his first season....I agree. People thought he was a point producer and yes, I agree he was a whipping boy.

However, I specifically remember his second season not being very good on the defensive side of the puck. And I also remember Ray Shero's interview where he acknowledged Martin wasn't very good and he admitted he asked Martin if he wanted to be traded and Martin declined. The same thing happened with Michalek and Michalek confirmed he wanted to be traded.....and he was....right back to Zona.

The reason I remember this so vividly is because I was surprised Shero would provide these guys the option of being moved. I can't imagine that is a typical thing for GM's.

Anyway.... I don't know what his numbers looked like after season two, but I remember he wasn't as good as his first. It must have been bad enough for the GM to ask him if he wanted to traded.
- madmike71

It might have been his second season. He went dead even at 5v5 but all of his underlying numbers were all still solid.

Edit: I feel like that is a typical thing for GMs. I’ve heard a few guys on Spittin Chiclets talk about how GMs would come and ask them if they aren’t comfortable or if they want moved or something often the sort. Granted most of the guys being asked are plugs but I assume it probably goes to other players too if they’re on the struggle bus.