Yep, now if they could just play this way all the time. It seems to be hit an miss or just the last 5 when they're behind.
- annoyed

Yep. Their compete level is not up to Tampa's just yet . Watched several of their games lately and they are hungry for the puck . Every line is working every shift. Eventually they force teams to cough it up resulting in close game wins

I'd prefer to win the Cup than go 1 or 2 rounds. (But I'm old fashioned like that)
- walshyleafsfan

No guarantees and theres no choice.
You need to win 1 or 2 rounds first.
Making a tdl could help

And Kurvers to the Leafs!
- Atomic Wedgie

Rich O'Byrne and Tomas Plekanec to stave off those pesky game 7 Bruins comebacks

I completely disagree with you.

And I think many GM’s would as well. Especially with 26 million in deadline cap space.
- Santo_44

And I completely disagree with you. Ha! Two can play that game!

I think the entire point about cap space lends itself far more to keeping prospects and ELC/first contract players in the midst with the ultra high paid core.

Why give up assets now when the window is so wide open? Why not wait for Pietrangelo to go UFA after next season?

Good to know you can read the minds of "many GM's" though.

And I completely disagree with you. Ha! Two can play that game!

I think the entire point about cap space lends itself far more to keeping prospects and ELC/first contract players in the midst with the ultra high paid core.

Why give up assets now when the window is so wide open? Why not wait for Pietrangelo to go UFA after next season?

Good to know you can read the minds of "many GM's" though.
- mjones242

Because you have the space NOW. Look who the Leafs have to sign. I'm not getting into the whole argument about whether the Leafs can keep the band together and yes it is a good problem to have, but you can just as easily say you're looking to spend future cap dollars on a Pietrangelo that won't be available due to Tavares and the resigning of Marner, Matthews, & Gardiner/his replacement.

Where as you can make this team better now than maybe you can next year for a small price.

Cup or bust.

But I guess making it to the ECF could be considered a form of playoff sucess.
- Scabeh

If you're not first, you're last!

And I completely disagree with you. Ha! Two can play that game!

I think the entire point about cap space lends itself far more to keeping prospects and ELC/first contract players in the midst with the ultra high paid core.

Why give up assets now when the window is so wide open? Why not wait for Pietrangelo to go UFA after next season?

Good to know you can read the minds of "many GM's" though.
- mjones242

There is no game. I just disagree with you.

And yeah....the Leafs have those prospects and can afford to trade some. The better core you have the less spots you have to fill.

And I don’t....but contending teams seem to keep buying rentals so I think it’s pretty easy to see.....

I think Rick's point is that your team is already very good, currently healthy and still has the cap space to add a major piece for a cup run.

In a few years, you'll still have your core players (or most of them) but how much will they keep improving? Will they remain healthy? Will you still have the necessary room to add the missing pieces for a cup run?

The clock isn't ticking for the Leafs, but it's not a foolish idea to try and go for it right now either.

This being said, I respectully hope you trade all your picks and prospects only to fail miserably.
- Scabeh

Thanks, that point had occurred to me.

Because you have the space NOW. Look who the Leafs have to sign. I'm not getting into the whole argument about whether the Leafs can keep the band together and yes it is a good problem to have, but you can just as easily say you're looking to spend future cap dollars on a Pietrangelo that won't be available due to Tavares and the resigning of Marner, Matthews, & Gardiner/his replacement.

Where as you can make this team better now than maybe you can next year for a small price.
- RickJames77

Leafs will have cap space again once Marleau's contract is up and the cap has gone up again. That's the time to do it. Not now

There is no game. I just disagree with you.

And yeah....the Leafs have those prospects and can afford to trade some. The better core you have the less spots you have to fill.

And I don’t....but contending teams seem to keep buying rentals so I think it’s pretty easy to see.....
- Santo_44

Oh please. This discussion is entirely a game.

The Leafs can trade prospects and 1sts to their heart's content. But I don't think mortgaging the future is necessary at this point unless it's lower tier prospects. The window for legit Cup contention and controllable stars is literally years open for the Leafs.

Shall we continue the game?

Leafs will have cap space again once Marleau's contract is up and the cap has gone up again. That's the time to do it. Not now
- walshyleafsfan

Why not both in order to maximize your chances at a potential cup? Your first round pick will likely be in the late 20s. They rarely work out and are worth moving for a better shot at a cup.

Oh please. This discussion is entirely a game.

The Leafs can trade prospects and 1sts to their heart's content. But I don't think mortgaging the future is necessary at this point unless it's lower tier prospects. The window for legit Cup contention and controllable stars is literally years open for the Leafs.

Shall we continue the game?
- mjones242

I'm not trying to play a game or get you riled up...just here for a conversation.

How can you mortgage the future when your down payment (Tavares, Matthews, Marner, & Nylander) covered the cost of the whole damn house.

You can't stock up on all young talent and expect to be able to pay them all if Liljegren and Sandin perse turn into superstars.

evaluations on who to keep and who to use as trading chips need to be done IMO

Sounds like Pieterangelo is the only missing link between us and Stanley.

Oh please. This discussion is entirely a game.

The Leafs can trade prospects and 1sts to their heart's content. But I don't think mortgaging the future is necessary at this point unless it's lower tier prospects. The window for legit Cup contention and controllable stars is literally years open for the Leafs.

Shall we continue the game?
- mjones242

Dude, the future is now.

You’ll see the Leafs being buyers for a considerable amount of time.

And the fact that they have 20 million more in deadline space then they ever will again in their contention is pretty much a forgone conclusion that they will use it.

Dude, the future is now.
- Santo_44

I'd guess you were not here in the '70's. Good for you.

Ya its not media driven only, its driven by simple math.
Rebuild is pretty much over, 3 of their main young players will be commanding big salaries, they just signed a double digit cap hit star.
Rebuild done.
Now its time to become a cup contender.
Again, cap wise, they'll never have this much space with the current level of talent on the roster.
Not to say they cant win in down the road.

Unfortunately, it looks like there's not much available as rentals just yet.
- Fakepartofme

this is the gist of it... rentals - if there were someone available who offers something the Leafs are only compelling if available for cheap.

Dubas clearly can't add significant CAP beyond July 1st... other than via a hockey deal where he moves out CAP for incoming CAP. If he were to add significant CAP beyond July 1st... he does run the risk of exposing himself to offer sheets.


I'm sure he doesn't want to trade Nylander... but Nylander remains (even though he's playing like "disinterested Kessel" at the moment) the best chance to move out CAP for CAP in a hockey deal.

Obviously if you can move other pieces instead of Nylander ... that would be better - but that would raise the spectre of the JvR situation.... who's scoring has largely been replaced. Can Kapanen, who very likely won't cost anything close to Nylander sustain he production if Nylander is moved?

tough questions that Dubas has to answer (please note that is does NOT say UG has to answer 3032932101120938 times) ... and I believe will color his tenure as Leafs GM ... if Dubas falters and does nothing between now and the deadline... that will stick to him and I believe position him poorly in the Matthews/Marner contract negotiations upcoming...

I'd guess you were not here in the '70's. Good for you.
- Leafsmart

I don't see how referencing decisions made nearly 50 years ago in a totally different league, let alone game, warrants any validation of a point against buying at the TDL.

Why not both in order to maximize your chances at a potential cup? Your first round pick will likely be in the late 20s. They rarely work out and are worth moving for a better shot at a cup.
- RickJames77

There are loads and loads of players in the NHL that were drafted in the 20s and beyond. They also are cost controlled while we have little cap space. That's really important for the Leafs. Had the Leafs not have Lillybust and Sandin in their system, 17th and 29th respectively, our prospects on the back end would be non existent

I'd guess you were not here in the '70's. Good for you.
- Leafsmart

The present doesn’t always work in your favour.

Still do the best you can to have success.

Dude, the future is now.

You’ll see the Leafs being buyers for a considerable amount of time.

And the fact that they have 20 million more in deadline space then they ever will again in their contention is pretty much a forgone conclusion that they will use it.
- Santo_44

Nope. The future is down the road. The present is now.

Dude, the future is now.

You’ll see the Leafs being buyers for a considerable amount of time.

And the fact that they have 20 million more in deadline space then they ever will again in their contention is pretty much a forgone conclusion that they will use it.
- Santo_44

For what it's worth, I think you're both right. The thing is that right NOW, while the team is a contender, they are handcuffed by the Marleau and Horton contracts. In 2 years, there is an additional 11.5m available, and that is where the opportunities really open up. Anything they do this year is a blip because it expires in the off-season hampered by next year's crunch.

Anything they do right now is giving up assets for someone you can't keep beyond this year. Next year, they can use Horton's IR as cap space at the deadline, and carry that 11.5m of free space into the 2020 season.

Why not both in order to maximize your chances at a potential cup? Your first round pick will likely be in the late 20s. They rarely work out and are worth moving for a better shot at a cup.
- RickJames77

You have to understand:

Most Leafs fans of a certain age have deep traumatic scars from trading away the future for an ill-fated cup run.

Let me list a few guys who I'll bet you never even knew played for the Leafs:

- Leetch
- Barasso
- Francis

All rentals. All a waste of assets (Leetch blowing a tire let Roenick score. Jeremy "I love me some me" Roenick."

And then there were the trade deadline deals where we traded the future for the present - and those over-the-hill vets stayed.

Kenny Jonsson, Sean Haggerty, Darby Hendrickson and a 1997 1st Round Pick (Roberto Luongo) to the New York Islanders for Wendel Clark, Mathieu Schneider and D.J. Smith. Wendel was a shadow of his former self, Schneider was perhaps the scariest ever Leafs D-man in his own end (and that's really, really saying something), and Smith was nothing.

Alyn McCauley, Brad Boyes and a 2003 1st Round Pick (Boston selected Mark Stuart) to San Jose Sharks for Owen Nolan. Nolan got very, very, very fat very very very quickly.

I could go on and on and on...

My point is that for about 48 years, the Leafs have always had a "win now" mentality, with franking horrid results.

Now we finally have the Shanaplan - slow, steady improvements. Draft and develop players. Don't sacrifice the future for the present.

For forgive us for not wanting to trade picks at the deadline this year - it's just too painful a process to go through again.

Stick to the Shanaplan!!!!!

You also need to play the right way.

You know, like the 2011 Bruins
- RickJames77

oh...you had to go there didn't you!

For what it's worth, I think you're both right. The thing is that right NOW, while the team is a contender, they are handcuffed by the Marleau and Horton contracts. In 2 years, there is an additional 11.5m available, and that is where the opportunities really open up. Anything they do this year is a blip because it expires in the off-season hampered by next year's crunch.

Anything they do right now is giving up assets for someone you can't keep beyond this year. Next year, they can use Horton's IR as cap space at the deadline, and carry that 11.5m of free space into the 2020 season.
- Monkeypunk

They have 24 million in deadline cap space this season......

They will have about 3 million. Possibly 4 for next season and will soon be at 500k like every other contender.

This is definitely a year you want to add....it’s a huge advantage over other contender TB and the Caps where they have about 3-4 million in deadline cap space this season.

It’s a huge advantage that some people just can’t seem to understand. In a salary cap NHL cap space is vital to win....and the Leafs have a (frank) load of it.

I’d be absolutely shocked if they didn’t use it.

Edit: just checked...the Caps have 400k in deadline cap space....the leafs will be there soon. They have 24 million this year....yeah. Enough said.

this is the gist of it... rentals - if there were someone available who offers something the Leafs are only compelling if available for cheap.

Dubas clearly can't add significant CAP beyond July 1st... other than via a hockey deal where he moves out CAP for incoming CAP. If he were to add significant CAP beyond July 1st... he does run the risk of exposing himself to offer sheets.



Leafs GM ... if Dubas falters and does nothing between now and the deadline... that will stick to him and I believe position him poorly in the Matthews/Marner contract negotiations upcoming...


- BorjeFan4Ever

Let's remember the old line. Sometimes the best trades you make are the ones you don't.