There are loads and loads of players in the NHL that were drafted in the 20s and beyond. They also are cost controlled while we have little cap space. That's really important for the Leafs. Had the Leafs not have Lillybust and Sandin in their system, 17th and 29th respectively, our prospects on the back end would be non existent
- walshyleafsfan

There are some, I'd argue against loads (I'm only referring to the first round), and what are the chances of them landing on your particular team in any given year at your slot in the draft? Not good.

this is the gist of it... rentals - if there were someone available who offers something the Leafs are only compelling if available for cheap.

Dubas clearly can't add significant CAP beyond July 1st... other than via a hockey deal where he moves out CAP for incoming CAP. If he were to add significant CAP beyond July 1st... he does run the risk of exposing himself to offer sheets.


I'm sure he doesn't want to trade Nylander... but Nylander remains (even though he's playing like "disinterested Kessel" at the moment) the best chance to move out CAP for CAP in a hockey deal.

Obviously if you can move other pieces instead of Nylander ... that would be better - but that would raise the spectre of the JvR situation.... who's scoring has largely been replaced. Can Kapanen, who very likely won't cost anything close to Nylander sustain he production if Nylander is moved?

tough questions that Dubas has to answer (please note that is does NOT say UG has to answer 3032932101120938 times) ... and I believe will color his tenure as Leafs GM ... if Dubas falters and does nothing between now and the deadline... that will stick to him and I believe position him poorly in the Matthews/Marner contract negotiations upcoming...


- BorjeFan4Ever

This is kind of what I was saying. The media have managed to turn this into a failure if Dubas stays patient and does nothing. Like you said, it'll look bad on him for some reason. Even though I believe it is exactly the correct thing to do.

The media and in turn some of the fanbase has now turned this deadline into a deadline where something (doesn't really matter if the deals are there or not) has to be done.

It's a shame

There are some, I'd argue against loads, and what are the chances of them landing on your particular team in any given year at your slot in the draft? Not good.
- RickJames77

That's just not true otherwise no one would want to draft passed the first 10-15 picks. Draft picks would be worthless.

Drafting is the absolute most important thing for a team to do effectively.

It's why everyone marvels at Point, Chabot, Stone, Hoffman etc.

You have to understand:

Most Leafs fans of a certain age have deep traumatic scars from trading away the future for an ill-fated cup run.

Let me list a few guys who I'll bet you never even knew played for the Leafs:

- Leetch
- Barasso
- Francis

All rentals. All a waste of assets (Leetch blowing a tire let Roenick score. Jeremy "I love me some me" Roenick."

And then there were the trade deadline deals where we traded the future for the present - and those over-the-hill vets stayed.

Kenny Jonsson, Sean Haggerty, Darby Hendrickson and a 1997 1st Round Pick (Roberto Luongo) to the New York Islanders for Wendel Clark, Mathieu Schneider and D.J. Smith. Wendel was a shadow of his former self, Schneider was perhaps the scariest ever Leafs D-man in his own end (and that's really, really saying something), and Smith was nothing.

Alyn McCauley, Brad Boyes and a 2003 1st Round Pick (Boston selected Mark Stuart) to San Jose Sharks for Owen Nolan. Nolan got very, very, very fat very very very quickly.

I could go on and on and on...

My point is that for about 48 years, the Leafs have always had a "win now" mentality, with franking horrid results.

Now we finally have the Shanaplan - slow, steady improvements. Draft and develop players. Don't sacrifice the future for the present.

For forgive us for not wanting to trade picks at the deadline this year - it's just too painful a process to go through again.

Stick to the Shanaplan!!!!!
- Atomic Wedgie

wow Wedgie... thanks for the memories


you are correct those deals were largely ill - advised - but only because (in particular) the Nolan and Leetch deals didn't pan out ... if either had they would have been viewed as genius moves. I would argue that had the Leafs gotten to the final (which Carolina won).. all would have been forgiven.

One key aspect of each of those situations... the incumbent GM needed to save his job... Dubas doesn't have that problem... and I would suggest that Dubas could trade 1 or 2 picks or prospects without "emptying" the cupboard completely.

This is kind of what I was saying. The media have managed to turn this into a failure if Dubas stays patient and does nothing. Like you said, it'll look bad on him for some reason. Even though I believe it is exactly the correct thing to do.

The media and in turn some of the fanbase has now turned this deadline into a deadline where something (doesn't really matter if the deals are there or not) has to be done.

It's a shame
- walshyleafsfan

Dubas has to strike a balance. If he does nothing to support the current roster... then bad on him. If he "shytes the bed" and gives away too much and team poops out in the playoffs ... that will be bad on him.

In my opinion Dubas has to decide between i) trading Nylander and breaking his "promise" ii) making the team better / more balanced by moving Nylander and eating the negative press associated with breaking the aforementioned promise.

They have 24 million in deadline cap space this season......

They will have about 3 million. Possibly 4 for the considerable future....

This is definitely a year you want to add....it’s a huge advantage over other contender TB and the Caps where they have about 3-4 million in deadline cap space this season.

It’s a huge advantage that some people just can’t seem to understand. In a salary cap NHL cap space is vital to win....and the Leafs have a (frank) load of it.

I’d be absolutely shocked if they didn’t use it.
- Santo_44

They don't have 24 million in deadline cap space. If you're looking at Cap Friendly, they are absolutely considering Andersen and Hyman and Ennis on IR as a part of that space ("The deadline cap space is the total sum of cap hit values that the current daily cap hit can be increased by to remain compliant below the cap ceiling at seasons end. When a team is using LTIR this is estimated as their remaining LTIR salary pool."). They have some of the available $5 million to spend due to bonus payout considerations.

If you're looking at prorated amounts, they probably could realistically squish in a $6m salary at the TDL.

I think Babcock is just sad that he doesn't have Hyman. That's why he refuses to change the powerplay in any way, shape or form.

Also I'm starting to suspect that Rick might be a Bruins fan.

They don't have 24 million in deadline cap space. If you're looking at Cap Friendly, they are absolutely considering Andersen and Hyman and Ennis on IR as a part of that space ("The deadline cap space is the total sum of cap hit values that the current daily cap hit can be increased by to remain compliant below the cap ceiling at seasons end. When a team is using LTIR this is estimated as their remaining LTIR salary pool."). They have some of the available $5 million to spend due to bonus payout considerations.

If you're looking at prorated amounts, they probably could realistically squish in a $6m salary at the TDL.
- Monkeypunk

False.

The Athletic did article on it. They could have up to 26 million in deadline space. The fact they are on the IR right now forces them to call up players which does bring that number down a tad but barely. Which is why they keep sending down Moore. It helps bring their deadline cap space up.

Dubas has to strike a balance. If he does nothing to support the current roster... then bad on him. If he "shytes the bed" and gives away too much and team poops out in the playoffs ... that will be bad on him.

In my opinion Dubas has to decide between i) trading Nylander and breaking his "promise" ii) making the team better / more balanced by moving Nylander and eating the negative press associated with breaking the aforementioned promise.
- BorjeFan4Ever

I personally don't believe Dubas has to do anything this deadline to improve the team. I believe he should keep everything progressing with an eye to the 2020-21 season to where the Leafs should be a favourite for the next decade or so. That's just my opinion

I don't see how referencing decisions made nearly 50 years ago in a totally different league, let alone game, warrants any validation of a point against buying at the TDL.
- RickJames77

Not opposed to " buying" at all. Use the cap space. Like I said, short term, Kevin Bieksa could do more than Pieterangelo. Just leave the prospects alone. We don't even know how good they are at this point. This team is just getting started. I'd prefer to be competitive for many years as opposed to putting all of our eggs in the basket this year.

This is exactly what I was saying

You get me
- RickJames77

Like I said, short term, Kevin Bieksa could do more than Pieterangelo.
- Leafsmart

via GIPHY

False.

The Athletic did article on it. They could have up to 26 million in deadline space. The fact they are on the IR right now forces them to call up players which does bring that number down a tad but barely. Which is why they keep sending down Moore. It helps bring their deadline cap space up.
- Santo_44

When did the Athletic do the article on it? They had another article that described why the Leafs had nowhere near as much space as everyone thought. And then signed Willy to a $10m deal this year. Right now, the Forwards are $42m (including Hyman and Ennis); the Defense are 19.8m and the goalies are about $6m when you consider that Hutch will have some of his salary eaten in the minors, and some of his salary was already paid out by Florida.

You have a $1.2m buyout to Kessel, and $5.3m to Horton.

That's $74.3m out of 79.5m and they still have the ELC bonuses to pay for.

Sending Moore up and down and Kaskisuo up and down is shell game trickery but it is peanuts compared to those numbers. It doesn't get you even close to 20+ million.

Understand that I'm arguing out of confusion here. Those numbers just simply do not add up.

You have to understand:

Most Leafs fans of a certain age have deep traumatic scars from trading away the future for an ill-fated cup run.

Let me list a few guys who I'll bet you never even knew played for the Leafs:

- Leetch
- Barasso
- Francis

All rentals. All a waste of assets (Leetch blowing a tire let Roenick score. Jeremy "I love me some me" Roenick."

And then there were the trade deadline deals where we traded the future for the present - and those over-the-hill vets stayed.

Kenny Jonsson, Sean Haggerty, Darby Hendrickson and a 1997 1st Round Pick (Roberto Luongo) to the New York Islanders for Wendel Clark, Mathieu Schneider and D.J. Smith. Wendel was a shadow of his former self, Schneider was perhaps the scariest ever Leafs D-man in his own end (and that's really, really saying something), and Smith was nothing.

Alyn McCauley, Brad Boyes and a 2003 1st Round Pick (Boston selected Mark Stuart) to San Jose Sharks for Owen Nolan. Nolan got very, very, very fat very very very quickly.

I could go on and on and on...

My point is that for about 48 years, the Leafs have always had a "win now" mentality, with franking horrid results.

Now we finally have the Shanaplan - slow, steady improvements. Draft and develop players. Don't sacrifice the future for the present.

For forgive us for not wanting to trade picks at the deadline this year - it's just too painful a process to go through again.

Stick to the Shanaplan!!!!!
- Atomic Wedgie

Now you my man, speak for the real Leaf fans. Keep posting

Now you my man, speak for the real Leaf fans. Keep posting
- Leafsmart

I will need a list so I ban everyone else once I become the Ref around here.

Thanks in advance.

That's just not true otherwise no one would want to draft passed the first 10-15 picks. Draft picks would be worthless.

Drafting is the absolute most important thing for a team to do effectively.

It's why everyone marvels at Point, Chabot, Stone, Hoffman etc.
- walshyleafsfan

I meant to qualify this as a first round exercise as anyone you'd be looking to acquire will cost you a first. Let's take a gander at number 20-30 picks over the last few years you can actually judge

2009.) 20. Jacob Josefson 21. John Moore 22. Jordan Schroeder 23. Tim Erixon 24. Marcus Johannson 25. Jordan Caron 26. Kyle Palmieri 27. Philip Paradis 28. Dylan Olsen 29. Carter Aston 30. Simon Despres

2010.) 20. Beau Bennet 21. Riley Sheahan 22. Jared Tinordi 23. Martin Pysyk 24. Kevin Hayes 25. Quinton Howden 26. Evgeny Kuznetsov 27. Mark Vasentin 28. Charlie Coyle 29. Emerson Etem 30. Brock Nelson

2011.) 20. Connor Murphy 21. Stepan Noesen 22. Tyler Biggs 23. Joe Morrow 24. Matt Puempel 25. Stewart Percy 26. Philip Danault 27. Vladislav Namestnikov 28. Zach Phillips 29. Nicklas Jensen 30. Rickard Rakell

2012.) 20. Scott Laughton 21. Mark Jankowski 22. Oli Maata 23. Mike Matheson 24. Malcom Subban 25. Jordan Schmaltz 26. Brendan Guance 27. Henrik Samuelsson 28. Brady Skjei 29. Stephan Matteau 30. Tanner Pearson

2013.) 20. Anthony Mantha 21. Frederick Gauthier 22. Emile Pourier 23. Andre Burakovsky 24. Hunter Shinkaruk 25. Michael McCarron 26. Shea Theodore 27. Marko Dano 28. Morgan Klimchuk 29. Jason Richardinson 30. Ryan Hartman

2014.) 20. Nick Schmaltz 21. Robbi Fabri 22. Kasperi Kapanen 23. Connor Bleackley 24. Jared McCann 25. David Pastrnak 26. Nikita Scherbak 27. Nikolay Goldobin 28. Josh Ho-Sang 29. Adrian Kempe 30. John Quenville

2015.) 20. Joel Eriksson-Ek 21. Colin White 22. Ilya Samsanov 23.Brock Boeser 24. Travis Konecny 25. Jack Roslovic 26. Noah Juulsen 27. Jacob Larsson 28. Anthony Beauvillier 29. Gabriel Carlsson 30. Nick Merkeley

You get one a draft. MAYBE. and it's a long shot they fall to your team.

If Gardiner can put up those numbers, hamilton can as well.
- Fakepartofme

If that's your comparison, wouldn't you want more than a right handed Gardiner if you're trading Nylander?

I meant to qualify this as a first round exercise as anyone you'd be looking to acquire will cost you a first. Let's take a gander at number 20-30 picks over the last decade.

2009.) 20. Jacob Josefson 21. John Moore 22. Jordan Schroeder 23. Tim Erixon 24. Marcus Johannson 25. Jordan Caron 26. Kyle Palmieri 27. Philip Paradis 28. Dylan Olsen 29. Carter Aston 30. Simon Despres

2010.) 20. Beau Bennet 21. Riley Sheahan 22. Jared Tinordi 23. Martin Pysyk 24. Kevin Hayes 25. Quinton Howden 26. Evgeny Kuznetsov 27. Mark Vasentin 28. Charlie Coyle 29. Emerson Etem 30. Brock Nelson

2011.) 20. Connor Murphy 21. Stepan Noesen 22. Tyler Biggs 23. Joe Morrow 24. Matt Puempel 25. Stewart Percy 26. Philip Danault 27. Vladislav Namestnikov 28. Zach Phillips 29. Nicklas Jensen 30. Rickard Rakell

2012.) 20. Scott Laughton 21. Mark Jankowski 22. Oli Maata 23. Mike Matheson 24. Malcom Subban 25. Jordan Schmaltz 26. Brendan Guance 27. Henrik Samuelsson 28. Brady Skjei 29. Stephan Matteau 30. Tanner Pearson

2013.) 20. Anthony Mantha 21. Frederick Gauthier 22. Emile Pourier 23. Andre Burakovsky 24. Hunter Shinkaruk 25. Michael McCarron 26. Shea Theodore 27. Marko Dano 28. Morgan Klimchuk 29. Jason Richardinson 30. Ryan Hartman

2014.) 20. Nick Schmaltz 21. Robbi Fabri 22. Kasperi Kapanen 23. Connor Bleackley 24. Jared McCann 25. David Pastrnak 26. Nikita Scherbak 27. Nikolay Goldobin 28. Josh Ho-Sang 29. Adrian Kempe 30. John Quenville

2015.) 20. Joel Eriksson-Ek 21. Colin White 22. Ilya Samsanov 23.Brock Boeser 24. Travis Konecny 25. Jack Roslovic 26. Noah Juulsen 27. Jacob Larsson 28. Anthony Beauvillier 29. Gabriel Carlsson 30. Nick Merkeley

You get one a draft. MAYBE. and it's a long shot they fall to your team.
- RickJames77

2017: Ryan Poehling.

2017: Ryan Poehling.

- Scabeh

How does a guy who gets silver even get named MVP of the WJCs.

22. Tyler Biggs
- RickJames77

*cough* jerk *cough*

2017: Ryan Poehling.

- Scabeh

We'll see

But the point is that hitting with a late/mid to late first round pick is extremely rare. They aren't as big of a deal to part with as people are making it out to be.

How does a guy who gets silver even get named MVP of the WJCs.
- TheMussel

Because Jack Hughes is a bust, and Kaapo Kakko has an embarrassingly excessive use of k's and a's.

I wonder what we could get Petry for?

Rielly Petry
Gards Z
Dermott Hainsey

or swap Hainsey and Z

Might be the cheaper way to go

I will need a list so I ban everyone else once I become the Ref around here.

Thanks in advance.
- Scabeh

I think Wedgie would be an excellent adviser to Kyle. Let me see, I should have Shanny's cell number here somewhere.

I wonder what we could get Petry for?

Rielly Petry
Gards Z
Dermott Hainsey

or swap Hainsey and Z

Might be the cheaper way to go
- annoyed

You see his wonderful display of "defending" last night?