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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: Off-Season Checklist
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RickJ
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burlington, ON
Joined: 01.12.2010

Apr 16 @ 8:48 AM ET
I think Wiz has seen and heard allot more about the prospects then most of us have. NHL teams with professional scouting staffs make allot of mistakes trying to project how an 18 year old will develop, It's impossible for us having seen a few video clips and perhaps a game or two of some of the prospects to figure out who's better than the next guy, let alone how goo d they will be in 3, 5 or 10 years.

I've seen Cozens play a few games on TV, Elbows likes Turcotte, other posters like Byram or Dach or whoever. Now Central Scouting has Dach ranked at #3 of NA skaters. Whoever the Hawk scouting staff feel is the best selection at 3 is the guy will accept, because with few exceptions, and Wiz being one of those, most of us just don't have the information to properly make the correct assessment.

- paulr

Remember Dylan Olsen? The guy who heads up Central Scouting said at the time the Hawks were getting a stud Dman and that he had him rated much higher.
Basically flunked out of college, never made it because he couldn't play with pace and didn't want to put the hard work in.

So projecting a 23 year old at 18 is tough. But I guess it was Q's fault because as an ex NHL defenceman he didn't bother developing Olsen who was a 'stud'.
paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location:
Joined: 06.26.2011

Apr 16 @ 9:04 AM ET
Remember Dylan Olsen? The guy who heads up Central Scouting said at the time the Hawks were getting a stud Dman and that he had him rated much higher.
Basically flunked out of college, never made it because he couldn't play with pace and didn't want to put the hard work in.

So projecting a 23 year old at 18 is tough. But I guess it was Q's fault because as an ex NHL defenceman he didn't bother developing Olsen who was a 'stud'.

- RickJ

Like you I get tired of hearing how brutal coach Q was because he didn't "develop" Olsen, Leddy, Pirri et all. It's up to the player and developmental leagues to prepare a player for the NHL. Unless the team is really bad NHL coaches don't have time to develop talent, their job is to use developed talent to try to win.

And as for projecting talent, look how wrong everyone was about Andrew Shaw.
RickJ
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burlington, ON
Joined: 01.12.2010

Apr 16 @ 9:28 AM ET
Like you I get tired of hearing how brutal coach Q was because he didn't "develop" Olsen, Leddy, Pirri et all. It's up to the player and developmental leagues to prepare a player for the NHL. Unless the team is really bad NHL coaches don't have time to develop talent, their job is to use developed talent to try to win.

And as for projecting talent, look how wrong everyone was about Andrew Shaw.

- paulr

Mike Babcock spews alot of nonsense but he said something yesterday that was very on point - at playoff time will is more important than skill. Andrew Shaw fits there and is the player the Hawks have never been able to replace and they don't come around very often.

mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Apr 16 @ 9:33 AM ET
Mike Babcock spews alot of nonsense but he said something yesterday that was very on point - at playoff time will is more important than skill. Andrew Shaw fits there and is the player the Hawks have never been able to replace and they don't come around very often.
- RickJ


Shaw 's a beauty, and hasn't been replaced. I thought The Drake has some Shaw in him, though.
paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location:
Joined: 06.26.2011

Apr 16 @ 9:34 AM ET
Mike Babcock spews alot of nonsense but he said something yesterday that was very on point - at playoff time will is more important than skill. Andrew Shaw fits there and is the player the Hawks have never been able to replace and they don't come around very often.
- RickJ

Tampa has lots of skill but apparently little will.
paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location:
Joined: 06.26.2011

Apr 16 @ 9:35 AM ET
Shaw 's a beauty, and hasn't been replaced. I thought The Drake has some Shaw in him, though.
- mohel


That's a discussion for a different forum.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Apr 16 @ 9:43 AM ET
Like you I get tired of hearing how brutal coach Q was because he didn't "develop" Olsen, Leddy, Pirri et all. It's up to the player and developmental leagues to prepare a player for the NHL. Unless the team is really bad NHL coaches don't have time to develop talent, their job is to use developed talent to try to win.

And as for projecting talent, look how wrong everyone was about Andrew Shaw.

- paulr

And the coaches who are good at developing talent are probably NOT the ones who will lead a team to a Stanley Cup.

Two completely different sets of coaching skills - and in more cases than not (I'd say almost always), the coaches who can win championships (like Q, like Phil Jackson) can't develop young players; and those who can develop kids into NHL skaters eventually underachieve with the talent they created and get replaced.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Apr 16 @ 9:48 AM ET
That's a discussion for a different forum.
- paulr


Easy, now......
paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location:
Joined: 06.26.2011

Apr 16 @ 10:01 AM ET
And the coaches who are good at developing talent are probably NOT the ones who will lead a team to a Stanley Cup.

Two completely different sets of coaching skills - and in more cases than not (I'd say almost always), the coaches who can win championships (like Q, like Phil Jackson) can't develop young players; and those who can develop kids into NHL skaters eventually underachieve with the talent they created and get replaced.

- StLBravesFan

Good point and it sounds like a good developmental coach was Trent Yawney.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Apr 16 @ 10:28 AM ET
Good point and it sounds like a good developmental coach was Trent Yawney.
- paulr

And maybe Jeremy Colliton.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Apr 16 @ 10:41 AM ET
And maybe Jeremy Colliton.
- StLBravesFan


I don't think it is so black-and-white. When Q arrived, the Hawks were loaded with youngsters, and kids with little development time came along later - Toews, Kane, Hammer, Bolland, Shaw, Saad. Others I'm sure I've missed. If development means teaching how to play a position, I agree Q isn't doing that. If it means helping young players blend together to play a system and become a better team, Q was pretty successful at that.
Ogilthorpe2
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 37,000 FT
Joined: 07.09.2009

Apr 16 @ 10:49 AM ET
That's a discussion for a different forum.
- paulr

hankscorpio
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 07.06.2015

Apr 16 @ 11:32 AM ET
I can't wait until the Hawks draft Pod, and he comes over next season just to see you get mad about it!
- SoftServe


Barry Smith worked his magic getting the Breadman to Chicago so I am optimistic that he and the organization can also convince Pod. The kid appears to be a stud.
EbonyRaptor
Joined: 03.28.2013

Apr 16 @ 11:50 AM ET
Barry Smith worked his magic getting the Breadman to Chicago so I am optimistic that he and the organization can also convince Pod. The kid appears to be a stud.
- hankscorpio


I'm not dismissing the notion that Barry Smith has inroads in Russia and could be helpful, but Podkolzin is 17 and Panarin was 23 when he decided to come to N.A. That's 5-6 years difference. Think back to when you were 17/18 and compare that to when you were 23. For me, it was a whole other level of maturity - physically, mentally and emotionally. My point is the Panarin/Podkolzin comparison is not apples/apples when it comes to Podkolzin knowing what he wants to do.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Orange, CA
Joined: 11.06.2015

Apr 16 @ 11:59 AM ET
Shaw 's a beauty, and hasn't been replaced. I thought The Drake has some Shaw in him, though.
- mohel


It seems like Stan has gotten the memo on this to an extent when it comes to the forwards. Drake, Sikura, Entwistle, Kurashev, Kampf, (and I'm probably forgetting others) say what you will about their skill, they all seem to be aggressive getting after the puck and "relentless".

I haven't seen most of the young D-men play, but I like Jokiharju's tenacity as well.
AEL_Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 06.18.2016

Apr 16 @ 12:11 PM ET
It seems like Stan has gotten the memo on this to an extent when it comes to the forwards. Drake, Sikura, Entwistle, Kurashev, Kampf, (and I'm probably forgetting others) say what you will about their skill, they all seem to be aggressive getting after the puck and "relentless".

I haven't seen most of the young D-men play, but I like Jokiharju's tenacity as well.

- Chunk

Your post is on point.

Other forward prospects who fit that bill are Highmore and Hagel. Although not a physical player, Highmore is on the opponent like a fly on sugar. The puck just seems to find Hagel as he forechecks in the offensive and neutral zones. Both have great speed, too.

On defense, tenacious is a good word to use. Definitely see that from Jokiharju who also has a swagger to his game. I also like the tenacity of Gilbert, Carlsson, and Tuulola. Hillman could show more as a defensive defenseman. Krys shows some.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Apr 16 @ 12:13 PM ET
Your post is on point.

Other forward prospects who fit that bill are Highmore and Hagel. Although not a physical player, Highmore is on the opponent like a fly on sugar. The puck just seems to find Hagel as he forechecks in the offensive and neutral zones. Both have great speed, too.

On defense, tenacious is a good word to use. Definitely see that from Jokiharju who also has a swagger to his game. I also like the tenacity of Gilbert, Carlsson, and Tuulola. Hillman could show more as a defensive defenseman. Krys shows some.

- AEL_Fox


How has Krys been playing lately?
wiz1901
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: DraftSite com, IL
Joined: 05.14.2008

Apr 16 @ 12:19 PM ET
Remember Dylan Olsen? The guy who heads up Central Scouting said at the time the Hawks were getting a stud Dman and that he had him rated much higher.
Basically flunked out of college, never made it because he couldn't play with pace and didn't want to put the hard work in.

So projecting a 23 year old at 18 is tough. But I guess it was Q's fault because as an ex NHL defenceman he didn't bother developing Olsen who was a 'stud'.

- RickJ

He couldn't pivot when the puck got turned over to skate backward fromn hios own blue line
hankscorpio
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 07.06.2015

Apr 16 @ 12:21 PM ET
I'm not dismissing the notion that Barry Smith has inroads in Russia and could be helpful, but Podkolzin is 17 and Panarin was 23 when he decided to come to N.A. That's 5-6 years difference. Think back to when you were 17/18 and compare that to when you were 23. For me, it was a whole other level of maturity - physically, mentally and emotionally. My point is the Panarin/Podkolzin comparison is not apples/apples when it comes to Podkolzin knowing what he wants to do.
- EbonyRaptor


That makes a lot of sense and I see your point. I just don't think Hawks should pass on Pod simply because he expressed interest in staying in the KHL. Whatever Pod may have said about staying in Russia, I think coming to North America will be appealing because the best Russian players in the world play in the NHL.
wiz1901
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: DraftSite com, IL
Joined: 05.14.2008

Apr 16 @ 12:22 PM ET
Ok I bit...I listened to Craig Button, and listened as the jokers got confusedIf you want to trust, Button, do it, but he is not the paid talent evaluator.
est of the podcast rehashing trying to make sense of their "enlightenment."
By the way, in September and October Craig Button had Philip Broberg as the 4th best player in the class...just saying....

- wiz1901


I change my mind too, but i remember distinctly when Philly's shot blocking king Hagg was in his first round too.

worth watching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsORePo83po
AEL_Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 06.18.2016

Apr 16 @ 12:34 PM ET
How has Krys been playing lately?
- mohel

His puck carrying is the best of the D men and he's great at QBing the PP. Could just be nerves still of making a jump from college to the pros but his passing at ES needs to be more precise and his decision making needs to be quicker.

He also needs to make simple, safe plays. Because he's trying to do too much, he flubs a lot of plays due to the pro game being so much faster than he may realize.

At least one full year in the AHL will be good for him. He has potential to be an eventual 3rd pair defender who can also manage the point on the PP.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Apr 16 @ 12:42 PM ET
His puck carrying is the best of the D men and he's great at QBing the PP. Could just be nerves still of making a jump from college to the pros but his passing at ES needs to be more precise and his decision making needs to be quicker.

He also needs to make simple, safe plays. Because he's trying to do too much, he flubs a lot of plays due to the pro game being so much faster than he may realize.

At least one full year in the AHL will be good for him. He has potential to be an eventual 3rd pair defender who can also manage the point on the PP.

- AEL_Fox


Thank you for the input.
MjulQvist
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 04.22.2012

Apr 16 @ 1:04 PM ET
He isn't gonna play dee as well as Duncan Keith ever.
- wiz1901


Hmm..You don´t think that 17 years old Duncan Keith had his flaws too? I mean we are talking about kid here. A lot of scouts see the potential out there but no one will know how good he´ll (Byram) become.




RickJ
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burlington, ON
Joined: 01.12.2010

Apr 16 @ 1:08 PM ET
He couldn't pivot when the puck got turned over to skate backward fromn hios own blue line
- wiz1901

Olsen is now kicking ass with the Nottingham Panthers in the British league with guys like Tyler Biggs (another huge draft mistake), Chris Stewart and Perlini's brother Brett. I guess he finally found his true competitive level.
paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location:
Joined: 06.26.2011

Apr 16 @ 1:09 PM ET
Hmm..You don´t think that 17 years old Duncan Keith had his flaws too? I mean we are talking about kid here. A lot of scouts see the potential out there but no one will know how good he´ll (Byram) become.
- MjulQvist

No one saw Keith being as good as he was or he would have been drafted allot higher than he was. It's way too early to project where Byram will be in 5 or 10 years.
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