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Forums :: Blog World :: Peter Tessier: It might be worse than believed
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TheUltimateJet
Winnipeg Jets
Joined: 07.16.2013

May 21 @ 12:07 PM ET
This is such a weird reply. I am in no way doubting Draisaitl, or his abilities. I am saying that comparing Nikolaj Ehlers to Leon Draisaitl is a comparison of two players on the same tier, and that while Drai is the better of the two, he is absolutely not a 50/50 player without McDavid. Ehlers is a 30/30 all by himself. My entire argument is that Ehlers is close enough to Draisaitl to make your strange trade offer an overpay. Which is correct.

But since I like the game you’ve put up here, I’ll play it...
Crosby: He had Hossa, but has otherwise made a career out of elevating fringe talent on his wings. No 50/50s.
McDavid: Drai. Only Drai. Only real winger he’s had since Hall and Eberle got axed.
MacKinnon: almost certainly responsible for the meteoric rise of Rantanen, as well as the sudden uptick in Landeskog’s production. No 50/50s here.
Ovechkin: Backstrom hit 101 once. I believe he scored 32 himself, however, so I’m not sure if he counts.
Malkin: *see Crosby*
Stamkos: was a product of Marty St. Louis early on. Then he surpassed him. I’d say these two should count for each other.
Giroux: not comparable, not an elite player.
Tavares: I’d like to see what another year of development can do for the Leafs odds of a 50/50 man with JT.

- Rexypoo


I am curious to hear what you define as being an elite player. For a player that has put up 93, 86, 73, 102, and 85 point seasons seems pretty elite to me. He also makes players around him better.

See- Jakub Voracek and Sean Couturier.

He also made Jeff Carter and Mike Richards expendable.
2.0
Location: Dauphin, MB
Joined: 09.11.2017

May 21 @ 12:12 PM ET
Below is what you said!



Force fed him the puck, which essentially means that he had no ability to get that puck himself. Laine is force fed all the time on the powerplay and did little to produce.

You also said he has no care for winning. I think that argument can easily apply to laine. If this team did not have Scheifele and Wheeler and he was the main dog here, we would be in serious trouble. For a man with Laine's talent, size, and shot. He is very easy to knock of the puck. I rarely see him go hard after the forcheck, or go hard on the backcheck. He's best known for floating around the offensive zone and waiting for someone to pass him the puck.

There is not one player on this team I can truly say got better because of Laine.

-End of Discussion-

- TheUltimateJet



thank gawd -
TheUltimateJet
Winnipeg Jets
Joined: 07.16.2013

May 21 @ 12:19 PM ET
thank gawd -
- 2.0

Ross77
Joined: 11.21.2014

May 21 @ 12:36 PM ET
Below is what you said!



Force fed him the puck, which essentially means that he had no ability to get that puck himself. Laine is force fed all the time on the powerplay and did little to produce.

You also said he has no care for winning. I think that argument can easily apply to laine. If this team did not have Scheifele and Wheeler and he was the main dog here, we would be in serious trouble. For a man with Laine's talent, size, and shot. He is very easy to knock of the puck. I rarely see him go hard after the forcheck, or go hard on the backcheck. He's best known for floating around the offensive zone and waiting for someone to pass him the puck.

There is not one player on this team I can truly say got better because of Laine.

-End of Discussion-

- TheUltimateJet


I'm sorry where does it say he's bad? either say you are sorry for miss-quoting me or don't, but please don't ever take my words and create hidden meanings and make useless assumptions or comparisons to Laine.

you miss quoted me, it was wrong on your part, own it
BWJumper
Location: MB
Joined: 01.26.2019

May 21 @ 2:13 PM ET
He scored 44 at 19, and had a spectacularly low shooting percentage in the second half.
Thinking 50 goals is a stretch for a guy who paced for 60 in the first 1/3 of the season is a weird, weird take

- Rexypoo


Until Laine improves his even strength play or he gets better line-mates there should be no expectation that he will ever hit 50 goals.

At best you give him 20 goals on the PP and he still needs 30 at even strength.
His 3 year totals have been 27, 24, 15 That's 3 years where there is no indication that he is improving from his rookie year
bikeguy99
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 09.05.2017

May 21 @ 3:29 PM ET
Hi you wanna get rid of an Ehlers? Done.
Connor? Sure.
Laine? habsolutely.

Whatever bigger forward pieces you're selling, we're buying.

We've got tons of picks, prospects, NHL calibre D and cap space.

Let's do this.

- BINGO!


Laine + Ehlers + Trouba + Little for Aho + Slavin + Pesce

Connor Sheifs Wheels
Perrault Aho Raslovic
Lindholm Lowry Tanev
Vesalainen Copp Appleton

Morrissey Buff
Slavin Pesce
Chiarot Niku

The move would save the Jets at least 10M cap space when all was said and done.
TheUltimateJet
Winnipeg Jets
Joined: 07.16.2013

May 21 @ 3:31 PM ET
Laine + Ehlers + Trouba + Perrault for Aho + Slavin + Pesce
- bikeguy99


Wow!

I like it!!!!!
Rexypoo
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

May 21 @ 5:57 PM ET
Laine + Ehlers + Trouba + Little for Aho + Slavin + Pesce

Connor Sheifs Wheels
Perrault Aho Raslovic
Lindholm Lowry Tanev
Vesalainen Copp Appleton

Morrissey Buff
Slavin Pesce
Chiarot Niku

The move would save the Jets at least 10M cap space when all was said and done.

- bikeguy99


Laine for Aho is a draw.
Ehlers is more valuable than either Canes dman, and you can likely make the same case for Trouba.

You’re basically downgrading at two positions to upgrade 1, and ditch Little
Rexypoo
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

May 21 @ 5:58 PM ET
I am curious to hear what you define as being an elite player. For a player that has put up 93, 86, 73, 102, and 85 point seasons seems pretty elite to me. He also makes players around him better.

See- Jakub Voracek and Sean Couturier.

He also made Jeff Carter and Mike Richards expendable.

- TheUltimateJet


Giroux is only points. He’s very comparable to prime Kovalchuk, in that he doesn’t drive play for anyone else, he doesn’t defend, but he himself is insanely talented.
Voracek has always been a strong playdriver, and Couturier is just Scheifele with a defensive emphasis. Every player I’ve mentioned here is/was superior to Giroux at top form.

Additionally, Carter and Richards made Carter and Richards expendable
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

May 21 @ 6:28 PM ET
Laine for Aho is a draw.
Ehlers is more valuable than either Canes dman, and you can likely make the same case for Trouba.

You’re basically downgrading at two positions to upgrade 1, and ditch Little

- Rexypoo


jesus christ
Rexypoo
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

May 21 @ 8:22 PM ET
jesus christ
- BINGO!


The order of ability, as of right now with no additional development, is as follows:

Aho
Ehlers
Laine
Trouba
Slavin
Pesce

Little

That said, Laine has the highest overall value by miles
bennythehat
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Joined: 03.23.2015

May 22 @ 8:49 AM ET
Evander Kane - 2 goals in 20 playoff games..... good value for the Sharks.
TheUltimateJet
Winnipeg Jets
Joined: 07.16.2013

May 22 @ 11:16 AM ET
The order of ability, as of right now with no additional development, is as follows:

Aho
Ehlers
Laine
Trouba
Slavin
Pesce

Little

That said, Laine has the highest overall value by miles

- Rexypoo


Based on what? For someone who champions advanced analytics, you do very little to back-up your claims.

I am sincerely interested in how you come up with this stuff.
Rexypoo
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

May 22 @ 11:36 AM ET
Based on what? For someone who champions advanced analytics, you do very little to back-up your claims.

I am sincerely interested in how you come up with this stuff.

- TheUltimateJet


Goals, goals, more goals, and being the youngest player involved.

When you provide the most of the most valuable quantity, whilst having a full 4-5 years of development left... you win
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

May 22 @ 11:46 AM ET
The order of ability, as of right now with no additional development, is as follows:

Aho
Ehlers
Laine
Trouba
Slavin
Pesce

Little

That said, Laine has the highest overall value by miles

- Rexypoo


You drastically underrate Jaccob Slavin
TheUltimateJet
Winnipeg Jets
Joined: 07.16.2013

May 22 @ 11:59 AM ET
Goals, goals, more goals, and being the youngest player involved.

When you provide the most of the most valuable quantity, whilst having a full 4-5 years of development left... you win

- Rexypoo


See I am having difficulty with this. You constantly post about point totals and goals not meaning much, then you post that they do.


TheUltimateJet
Winnipeg Jets
Joined: 07.16.2013

May 22 @ 12:00 PM ET
You drastically underrate Jaccob Slavin
- BINGO!


i agree. If the Canes had made it to the finals, there was much talk about him being in the Conn Smythe conversation.
Rexypoo
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

May 22 @ 12:43 PM ET
You drastically underrate Jaccob Slavin
- BINGO!


Entirely possible. Show me the light
Rexypoo
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

May 22 @ 12:44 PM ET
See I am having difficulty with this. You constantly post about point totals and goals not meaning much, then you post that they do.



- TheUltimateJet


I’m not talking about totals. I’m talking about goal scoring ability.
Laine has the best shot in the league, had been firing more and more before the halfway mark, and is in line for a massive positive-regression in shooting percentage going forward
bikeguy99
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 09.05.2017

May 22 @ 2:45 PM ET
Laine for Aho is a draw.
Ehlers is more valuable than either Canes dman, and you can likely make the same case for Trouba.

You’re basically downgrading at two positions to upgrade 1, and ditch Little

- Rexypoo


You are delirious if you feel Laine is even with Aho. Laine was a -24 on a stacked team, and given the best chances on the PP. Aho, +25 on the other hand notched 30 goals and 83 points while being best known for his elite skating and 200' game. Both players are the same age, and Aho plays a much more important role down the middle. These two did not belong in the same league the last half of the season, let alone considered to be equal talents.

As for Ehlers being more valuable than either Canes D, Maybe. But those two D are quality, young, top 4 D in the NHL and combine for 9.325M on contracts that last for the next 5 and 6 seasons! That is a steal and certainly worthwhile.

I believe that in the majority of trades, the team that lands the best individual player (which is ABSOLUTELY Aho), is the winner. Just imagine having Scheiffs and Aho as the top 2 centres. Yikes
TheUltimateJet
Winnipeg Jets
Joined: 07.16.2013

May 22 @ 5:36 PM ET
You are delirious if you feel Laine is even with Aho. Laine was a -24 on a stacked team, and given the best chances on the PP. Aho, +25 on the other hand notched 30 goals and 83 points while being best known for his elite skating and 200' game. Both players are the same age, and Aho plays a much more important role down the middle. These two did not belong in the same league the last half of the season, let alone considered to be equal talents.

As for Ehlers being more valuable than either Canes D, Maybe. But those two D are quality, young, top 4 D in the NHL and combine for 9.325M on contracts that last for the next 5 and 6 seasons! That is a steal and certainly worthwhile.

I believe that in the majority of trades, the team that lands the best individual player (which is ABSOLUTELY Aho), is the winner. Just imagine having Scheiffs and Aho as the top 2 centres. Yikes

- bikeguy99


Bikeguy99, you forgot to include Laine's Corsi numbers.

2016/17 - 48.7
2017/180- 50.2
2018/19 - 46.2

He has an average Corsi of 48.3. The thing that makes it more bizarre is that Laine had the most offensive zone starts of his entire career, where he started 60% of the time.


TheUltimateJet
Winnipeg Jets
Joined: 07.16.2013

May 22 @ 5:38 PM ET
I’m not talking about totals. I’m talking about goal scoring ability.
Laine has the best shot in the league, had been firing more and more before the halfway mark, and is in line for a massive positive-regression in shooting percentage going forward

- Rexypoo


Its nice to have ability but production is what counts. Fall in love with potential all you want, if it cannot deliver it means nothing.

Also, can you please provide an explanation of how his shooting percentage is going to trend upwards in the future?
Ross77
Joined: 11.21.2014

May 22 @ 7:44 PM ET
New article please
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