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Forums :: Blog World :: Peter Tessier: Gardiner an option for Jets but term an issue
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Rexypoo
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

Jul 4 @ 1:11 PM ET
Letting Myers, Chairot, and Tanev walk completes the holy trinity of “don’t do anything stupid” for Chevy.

They are all replacement level players, all overpaid for too long, and all have superior players already on the team ready to fill their spot. Vesalainen, Niku, and Poolman easily outclass Tanev, Chairot, and Myers.
jjonah
Winnipeg Jets
Location: winnipeg, MB
Joined: 03.25.2013

Jul 4 @ 1:21 PM ET
How with any certainty can you say they are better than the players leaving?

Poolman turning 27 and now can play 20+ mins?
Vasailainen has what 7 games?
Niku has shown that maybe he can play at. NHL level. Not established at all, although I would like to see him get some PP time given his skill set.

Throw Appleton into the mix and we are really asking a lot of inexperienced players.

Welcome to the start of a new 5 year rebuild plan
bennythehat
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Joined: 03.23.2015

Jul 4 @ 1:38 PM ET
Jets overpaid Tanev and Chiarot ?
jjonah
Winnipeg Jets
Location: winnipeg, MB
Joined: 03.25.2013

Jul 4 @ 1:56 PM ET
It’s funny how stat geeks completely dismiss chemistry, who’s good in the room, who is physical or even willing to stand up for a teammate. Hockey still played successfully when teams gel, egos work together and everyone on same page.

Tanev and Chariot are and were “glue” guys and if you’ve played the game you’d know their importance.

A stats only-GM will never win. They’re dismissing intangibles and success is dependant on intangibles
Rexypoo
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

Jul 4 @ 2:06 PM ET
It’s funny how stat geeks completely dismiss chemistry, who’s good in the room, who is physical or even willing to stand up for a teammate. Hockey still played successfully when teams gel, egos work together and everyone on same page.

Tanev and Chariot are and were “glue” guys and if you’ve played the game you’d know their importance.

A stats only-GM will never win. They’re dismissing intangibles and success is dependant on intangibles

- jjonah


Our room was a complete disaster last season. There’s a reason we’ve had so many pissed off players since the end of 17-18. And why you have veterans blowing off press events. And why you have Matt Hendricks airlifted in at the deadline to fix the room. And why you have several disgruntled players speaking out about usage, and coaching, and playing time, etc
Rexypoo
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

Jul 4 @ 2:08 PM ET
How with any certainty can you say they are better than the players leaving?

Poolman turning 27 and now can play 20+ mins?
Vasailainen has what 7 games?
Niku has shown that maybe he can play at. NHL level. Not established at all, although I would like to see him get some PP time given his skill set.

Throw Appleton into the mix and we are really asking a lot of inexperienced players.

Welcome to the start of a new 5 year rebuild plan

- jjonah


I’ll take inexperience and what if’s from the kids and Poolman over guaranteed sub-par play from Myers and co lost to free agency
DrunkenCanuck
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Fighting a Flock of Dubas Wives, ON
Joined: 07.14.2009

Jul 4 @ 2:56 PM ET
It’s funny how stat geeks completely dismiss chemistry, who’s good in the room, who is physical or even willing to stand up for a teammate. Hockey still played successfully when teams gel, egos work together and everyone on same page.

Tanev and Chariot are and were “glue” guys and if you’ve played the game you’d know their importance.

A stats only-GM will never win. They’re dismissing intangibles and success is dependant on intangibles

- jjonah


You can understand the Jets interest in Phaneuf to help with leadership.



foxbat
Joined: 06.30.2016

Jul 4 @ 3:03 PM ET
Without considering intangibles and player 'fit' in Winnipeg the only player loss that stings for on-ice talent is Trouba. Myers, Tanev, Chiarot played well in their roles but are replaceable at less dollars than they received as UFA's. Good for them, the Jets will recover.

Last year's group wasn't good enough, we can't spend more, something else had to change. For those looking for big moves to move forward, this is it - out with the steady vets and look for the upside in prospects. It's how draft and develop works. The younger players enter when the vets exit.

- 2.0


I agree, as all your points are valid, but I am concerned with the draft & develop philosophy going forward. It seems as though players & agents have swung the negotiating power & are going to start consistently pushing/holding out for 5-yr deals that take them right to UFA status (Matthews/Aho), this would really hurt the draft & develop model. To get anything back for that player you would have to trade him at the end of year 4. We will have to be better at assessing player potential earlier & moving young assets for proven players if we feel that the young player will not fit in our line-up. IMHO we have really done poorly with this - letting too many young assets depreciate in value.
foxbat
Joined: 06.30.2016

Jul 4 @ 3:05 PM ET
Our room was a complete disaster last season. There’s a reason we’ve had so many pissed off players since the end of 17-18. And why you have veterans blowing off press events. And why you have Matt Hendricks airlifted in at the deadline to fix the room. And why you have several disgruntled players speaking out about usage, and coaching, and playing time, etc
- Rexypoo


Absolutely! There is a common denominator here & hopefully it will be addressed this year, so we can move forward.
2.0
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Dauphin, MB
Joined: 09.11.2017

Jul 4 @ 3:39 PM ET
It’s funny how stat geeks completely dismiss chemistry, who’s good in the room, who is physical or even willing to stand up for a teammate. Hockey still played successfully when teams gel, egos work together and everyone on same page.

Tanev and Chariot are and were “glue” guys and if you’ve played the game you’d know their importance.

A stats only-GM will never win. They’re dismissing intangibles and success is dependant on intangibles

- jjonah


Chiarot and Wheeler got in a scrap in practice a few years back. I wonder if that was completely resolved.
grahamzky
Winnipeg Jets
Location: MB
Joined: 09.01.2008

Jul 4 @ 3:46 PM ET
It’s funny how stat geeks completely dismiss chemistry, who’s good in the room, who is physical or even willing to stand up for a teammate. Hockey still played successfully when teams gel, egos work together and everyone on same page.

Tanev and Chariot are and were “glue” guys and if you’ve played the game you’d know their importance.

A stats only-GM will never win. They’re dismissing intangibles and success is dependant on intangibles

- jjonah


Exactly, Tanev and Chiarot were glue guys - glue guys that will be missed by team - and team-mates. 110% guys who others should follow.

Tyler Myers was also a player who played his heart out, gave the team a presence and was team/first guy. Obviously by contracts signed, the three players were seen this way as well as us.

Hopefully people are not expecting Poolman to play as well as Tyler, or Tucker will be "booed" out of the MTS Centre. Niku is the guy I hope steps up, and may, if he added 20 lbs of muscle this summer.

Unless we add a quality d man via trade, we may well be a lottery team next season.
Rexypoo
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

Jul 4 @ 4:16 PM ET
Absolutely! There is a common denominator here & hopefully it will be addressed this year, so we can move forward.
- foxbat


It seems to be Wheeler
foxbat
Joined: 06.30.2016

Jul 4 @ 4:51 PM ET
It seems to be Wheeler
- Rexypoo

There seems to be a disconnect with his leadership style, but it’s tough to say for sure if you’re not in the room. What can be said for sure is that good coaches have the pulse of their team & understand how to get the most out of their players & how to bring them together when there are internal issues. The coach needs to become the lightning rod in these situations & find a way to unite the team & he clearly can’t figure out how to do that. As much as I dislike Torts & his style, this is exactly the kind of coach these guys clearly need.
jjonah
Winnipeg Jets
Location: winnipeg, MB
Joined: 03.25.2013

Jul 4 @ 6:09 PM ET
I’m aware of Wheeler referred to league wide media as a HUGE a-hole to deal with and there have whispers that his healthy ego is felt around the MTS Centre.

If we are really going this route right now, cut bait, trade him at his highest market value. Give the C to a younger player (I would even consider Morrissey).

2.0
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Dauphin, MB
Joined: 09.11.2017

Jul 4 @ 6:09 PM ET
Absolutely! There is a common denominator here & hopefully it will be addressed this year, so we can move forward.
- foxbat


I am not sure we have figured out a common denominator. We all have our theories and favourite targets whether Wheeler, Buff, Laine, Myers, Kulikov, Little, Chiarot, Tanev etc. We really don't know the crux of the issues as fans. The team has done a decent job of keeping what is said behind closed doors quiet.

I believe in shared blame and that fault can never be truthfully carried 100% by one person. There are always other factors. Management will make a few decisions and has already made decisions. The group that is left will be the Jets and we will move forward from there.
2.0
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Dauphin, MB
Joined: 09.11.2017

Jul 4 @ 11:52 PM ET
I agree, as all your points are valid, but I am concerned with the draft & develop philosophy going forward. It seems as though players & agents have swung the negotiating power & are going to start consistently pushing/holding out for 5-yr deals that take them right to UFA status (Matthews/Aho), this would really hurt the draft & develop model. To get anything back for that player you would have to trade him at the end of year 4. We will have to be better at assessing player potential earlier & moving young assets for proven players if we feel that the young player will not fit in our line-up. IMHO we have really done poorly with this - letting too many young assets depreciate in value.
- foxbat


I hear you - draft and develop forced to change due to the death of the bridge deal and willingness of GM's to sign RFA's to massive contracts. We are due for some pushback from GM's/owners against RFA's holding out for top dollar, Chevy might be the one to do it - Laine could be the one who misses a year due to contract dispute. He pushed the limit with Trouba and with Morrissey, no reason to think Laine will force his hand.

In defense of the RFA's the players being drafted are more suited to what the game has evolved to and they have become more valuable to their teams earlier in their careers. They are worth more now than they were when the last NHLPA/NHL agreement was made.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Jul 5 @ 9:36 AM ET
They will replace Trouba with Gardiner and we will hear no criticism of that. Leafs trade Hainsey for Barrie and all of a sudeb, it's a major downgrade
Rexypoo
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

Jul 5 @ 10:56 AM ET
They will replace Trouba with Gardiner and we will hear no criticism of that. Leafs trade Hainsey for Barrie and all of a sudeb, it's a major downgrade
- RogerRoeper


To be fair to the Jets if they do somehow land Gardiner, our defence may be better than last year:
Trouba>Gardiner, but Niku/Poolman>Chairot/Myers

Trouba can be replaced like 85% by Gardiner. The real problem the Jets blueline has is still having failed to replace Enstrom’s shutdown abilities after Mo drove him out

2.0
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Dauphin, MB
Joined: 09.11.2017

Jul 5 @ 11:06 AM ET
They will replace Trouba with Gardiner and we will hear no criticism of that. Leafs trade Hainsey for Barrie and all of a sudeb, it's a major downgrade
- RogerRoeper


that would be Hainsey, Zaitsev and Gardiner for Barrie, Ceci and ??
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Jul 5 @ 11:08 AM ET
that would be Hainsey, Zaitsev and Gardiner for Barrie, Ceci and ??
- 2.0


So you think Zaitsev and Hainsey is a loss all of a sudden? LOL
grahamzky
Winnipeg Jets
Location: MB
Joined: 09.01.2008

Jul 5 @ 11:33 AM ET
To be fair to the Jets if they do somehow land Gardiner, our defence may be better than last year:
Trouba>Gardiner, but Niku/Poolman>Chairot/Myers

Trouba can be replaced like 85% by Gardiner. The real problem the Jets blueline has is still having failed to replace Enstrom’s shutdown abilities after Mo drove him out

- Rexypoo


Agree that Trouba, all-round, was/is better than Gardiner, but you seriously think that Niku/Poolman are better than Myers/Chiarot? I have a hard time believing that. I do think that Niku has the potential, hopefully this season, to be better, but not yet.

Enstrom? Don't know one fan (other than you obviously) that missed Toby's backside when he left. Yes, he had some good years, but time waits for no man, and he was basically on his last legs. It was time to move on.
grahamzky
Winnipeg Jets
Location: MB
Joined: 09.01.2008

Jul 5 @ 11:37 AM ET
So you think Zaitsev and Hainsey is a loss all of a sudden? LOL
- RogerRoeper


Zaitsev and Hainsey were salary dumps of course. But what's your opinion of Ceci? He'll have to improve a lot to help the Leafs, don't you think?
I guess he's relatively young for a d-man, but?
bennythehat
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Joined: 03.23.2015

Jul 5 @ 11:42 AM ET
Agree that Trouba, all-round, was/is better than Gardiner, but you seriously think that Niku/Poolman are better than Myers/Chiarot? I have a hard time believing that. I do think that Niku has the potential, hopefully this season, to be better, but not yet.

Enstrom? Don't know one fan (other than you obviously) that missed Toby's backside when he left. Yes, he had some good years, but time waits for no man, and he was basically on his last legs. It was time to move on.

- grahamzky


Well put !
I was thinking same.
Ross77
Winnipeg Jets
Joined: 11.21.2014

Jul 5 @ 12:16 PM ET
Agree that Trouba, all-round, was/is better than Gardiner, but you seriously think that Niku/Poolman are better than Myers/Chiarot? I have a hard time believing that. I do think that Niku has the potential, hopefully this season, to be better, but not yet.

Enstrom? Don't know one fan (other than you obviously) that missed Toby's backside when he left. Yes, he had some good years, but time waits for no man, and he was basically on his last legs. It was time to move on.

- grahamzky

I would have played enstrom over Myers and Chairot all day
Rexypoo
Winnipeg Jets
Location: Yes
Joined: 02.08.2016

Jul 5 @ 12:39 PM ET
Agree that Trouba, all-round, was/is better than Gardiner, but you seriously think that Niku/Poolman are better than Myers/Chiarot? I have a hard time believing that. I do think that Niku has the potential, hopefully this season, to be better, but not yet.

Enstrom? Don't know one fan (other than you obviously) that missed Toby's backside when he left. Yes, he had some good years, but time waits for no man, and he was basically on his last legs. It was time to move on.

- grahamzky


Myers and Chairot are replacement level. I’m not worried. Neither is a top 4 dman, and neither ever performed as such with the Jets. Myers had stretches, but also worked his way down to “meh” again.
I don’t think it’s a stretch in any way to consider Niku and Poolman as superior, seeing as Niku is still in his development years and has already won the Norris-lite, and Poolman has solid NHL numbers so far while ending his AHL year with 17 points in the last 22 games.

As for Enstrom? Yeah... most fans aren’t particularly well versed in how defence actually works. Even actual NHL teams struggle with evaluating defence, the Jets being one of them. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find only 1 in 10 Jets fans misses Toby, as only 1 in 10 is likely to have done any research whatsoever
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